Works and Salvation

[eternally-gratefull]

It has to do with OBEDIENCE. Can you be with saved WITHOUT OBEDIENCE? Would they have LIVED WITHOUT looking at the serpent on the pole? CAN you find a single one that lived WITHOUT obeying what God told them to do? They had to follow through with OBEDIENCE.

here we go back to the circle again.

Question. Can you ever be obedient enough to save yourself? If you think you can, can you show us what the breaking line of being obedient enough, and not obedient enough is? Or do yuo even know? (no one esle seems to know, even though they preach it)

Your wrong in your assumption. I am saved by FAITH, My FAITH CAUSES OBEDIENCE. If I did not have faith, I WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD ALREADY. But we already know that. Why?

"he who does not believe is CONDEMNED ALREADY because they have not believed in the name of Jesus"

The people who did not have faith were dead before they even walked into the pit, because they did not have faith.

Those who had faith were already saved before the entered, Because they trusted god AND WOULD DO WHAT GOD ASKED THEM TO out of that trust.

 

[Jabberjaw]

well like you have no problem kicking your kids out of your house in sub zero weather because they stole a cookie you have no idea of covenants (promises) either

You as a parent promise to take care of your kids at a young age no matter what they do. including disciplineing them.

This is not a dual covenant it is a promise

God made a promise to abraham, In abrahams day, a dual covenant was agreed to by BOTH PARTIES walking between the carcusses. Meaning the covenant was bosed on both, if one broke it the covenant was null and void.

God put abraham to sleep. Abraham did not walk through the middle. Only God did. Because this was an I WILL promise between God and abraham. Not an you do this, and I will do that covenant.

But hey, you go ahead and worship a God who will make someone work before he even adopts him, and then will kick him out on the street for steeling a cookie. You go ahead and make Satan correct in his lie against God. Satan is your father, Not God. Because only satan would do what you claim. Not God.

You see how your 'opinion' falls on it face? when you cannot back any of your man made doctrine with scripture?

Hebrews 8:10 (NKJV)
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

What laws? are not laws to "be obeyed?" it appears according to scripture EVEN YOU must DO YOUR PART it OBEYING THE NEW LAWS" that are put in the mind and heart, the LAWS OF CHRIST. so now just sit on your couch and hope you get/stay saved.

 

[Atwood]

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 15 that
whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

 

[Jabberjaw]

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 15 that
whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 15:10 (NKJV)
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Did Jesus keep His Fathers commandments by doing nothing?, so what makes you think with this verse Jesus commands you do nothing?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You see how your 'opinion' falls on it face? when you cannot back any of your man made doctrine with scripture?

Hebrews 8:10 (NKJV)
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

What laws? are not laws to "be obeyed?" it appears according to scripture EVEN YOU must DO YOUR PART it OBEYING THE NEW LAWS" that are put in the mind and heart, the LAWS OF CHRIST. so now just sit on your couch and hope you get/stay saved.

you read the words but you do not believe them. It is like God said in the OT. Put the words in front of them so seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not hear (harden their hearts)

Putting his law in your heart means he puts in your heart the desire and ability to obey it. It means it has freed them from a diobedient heart, and saved them to an obedient heart.

Those born of God DO THIS, Because GOD PUT HIS LAW in THEIR HEART.

But yuo do not believe God has the power to do that. You still think He saved people. and I guess forgets to put this law in their hearts. Because you think they may not ever obey.

You do not believe in the power of God.

Then again, your God kicks their 6 year old out in sub zero weather because they stole a cookie. So your God has no power, but is evil. So it makes sense why you do not think your God has this power.

 

[Jabberjaw]

you read the words but you do not believe them. It is like God said in the OT. Put the words in front of them so seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not hear (harden their hearts)

Putting his law in your heart means he puts in your heart the desire and ability to obey it. It means it has freed them from a diobedient heart, and saved them to an obedient heart.

Those born of God DO THIS, Because GOD PUT HIS LAW in THEIR HEART.

But you're under no law? you said Jesus said "it is finished", that HE did it all, you have nothing to do?

Now you say the law is in the mind and heart after I show you scripture, you cannot have it both ways. The covenant is for man and God, an agreement between the two, giving man an "opportunity" through His Son Jesus Christ to reconcile with God... but you choose to leave mans part out no matter how much scripture one puts in front of you, you reconcile your biblical inconsistency with man made doctrine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But you're under no law? you said Jesus said "it is finished", that HE did it all, you have nothing to do?

lol. I guess the word "finished" does not mean completed to you?

If he finished the work. what more could I do? It is already finished.

Now you say the law is in the mind and heart after I show you scripture, you cannot have it both ways. The covenant is for man and God, an agreement between the two, giving man an "opportunity" through His Son Jesus Christ to reconcile with God... but you choose to leave mans part out no matter how much scripture one puts in front of you, you reconcile your biblical inconsistency with man made doctrine.

Man has one part. Repent and believe, that is mans only part. Even Jesus said this plainly in the book of John, especially chapter 6.

But you want to add to that. You do not want to see the things of God are foolishness to those who are not his (his laws) and how they can not do them, nor understand them. You do not want to see how after God makes you alive in Christ and you are his, he writes them in your heart (helps you to understand them) and gives you the power to obey them

You are to proud. you have to have your own part. In your gospel. Jesus lied when he said it is finished, He meant, I did my part. now you do yours.

 

[Jabberjaw]

lol. I guess the word "finished" does not mean completed to you?

If he finished the work. what more could I do? It is already finished.

"finished" is what Christ came to do, did "finished" what the Father sent Him to do, He did not "finish your work"

Christ was finished, but He told His apostles this:

John 14:26 (NKJV)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Man has one part. Repent and believe, that is mans only part. Even Jesus said this plainly in the book of John, especially chapter 6.

Man has many more parts than "repent and believe" :

Hear the Gospel
John. 20:30-31; Rom. 10:17

Believe
Rom. 1:16; Acts 18:8; Heb. 11:6

Repent
Lk. 13:3; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 17:30

Confess Faith in Christ
Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 8:37

Be Baptized
Mat. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38; 10:47-48;
22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12;
1Pet. 3:21

Be Faithful Unto and Until Death
Mat. 25:21, 34; 2Pet. 1:1-11; Rev. 2:10;
1Jno. 1:6-9

But you want to add to that. You do not want to see the things of God are foolishness to those who are not his (his laws) and how they can not do them, nor understand them. You do not want to see how after God makes you alive in Christ and you are his, he writes them in your heart (helps you to understand them) and gives you the power to obey them

You think God is foolish and he will put sinners in heaven because His Son died on the cross, you think you can sit back and sin your way to heaven.

You are to proud. you have to have your own part. In your gospel. Jesus lied when he said it is finished, He meant, I did my part. now you do yours.

I am proud?, Paul said :

Romans 1:16 (NKJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

The Gospel, and obedience to it will save me, the Gospel and all the works in it that I am commanded to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"finished" is what Christ came to do, did "finished" what the Father sent Him to do, He did not "finish your work"

Christ was finished, but He told His apostles this:

John 14:26 (NKJV)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

lol. Your funny dude.

God sent jesus to be the lamb of God, who REMOVES the sin of the world. God sent jesus to save sinners. God sent Jesus to bring salvation to all nations. God sent jesus to pay the sin of mankind, so he can save us from our sin, God sent jesus to be the propitiation of our sin, so we could be redeemed to him.

When Jesus said it was finished. this is what he did. He paid the prince in full. As col 2 says, he took what was against us (the law) and nailed it to the cross.

Yep, He does have work for us to do. Not to save us, but because we are saved, that work. To love others as God loves us, And be a light into the world in ALL WE DO.

Man has many more parts than "repent and believe" :

Hear the Gospel
John. 20:30-31; Rom. 10:17

Believe
Rom. 1:16; Acts 18:8; Heb. 11:6

Repent
Lk. 13:3; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 17:30

Confess Faith in Christ
Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 8:37

Be Baptized
Mat. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38; 10:47-48;
22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12;
1Pet. 3:21

Be Faithful Unto and Until Death
Mat. 25:21, 34; 2Pet. 1:1-11; Rev. 2:10;
1Jno. 1:6-9

You think God is foolish and he will put sinners in heaven because His Son died on the cross, you think you can sit back and sin your way to heaven.


I am proud?, Paul said :

Romans 1:16 (NKJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

The Gospel, and obedience to it will save me, the Gospel and all the works in it that I am commanded to do.

Yep. Continue to save yourself. COntinue to be a pharisee Continue to ignore the fact Jesus said it is finished, Continue to worship a God who kicks his 6 year old kid out of the house because he stole a cookie.

Good luck with that

 

[Jabberjaw]

lol. Your funny dude.

God sent jesus to be the lamb of God, who REMOVES the sin of the world. God sent jesus to save sinners. God sent Jesus to bring salvation to all nations. God sent jesus to pay the sin of mankind, so he can save us from our sin, God sent jesus to be the propitiation of our sin, so we could be redeemed to him.

When Jesus said it was finished. this is what he did. He paid the prince in full. As col 2 says, he took what was against us (the law) and nailed it to the cross.

Yep, He does have work for us to do. Not to save us, but because we are saved, that work. To love others as God loves us, And be a light into the world in ALL WE DO.

You really believe the word "believe on Him" is synonymous with "do nothing".

Yep. Continue to save yourself. COntinue to be a pharisee Continue to ignore the fact Jesus said it is finished, Continue to worship a God who kicks his 6 year old kid out of the house because he stole a cookie.

Good luck with that

I gave you a list of scripture, all commands, yet you deny them and think you can do none of them and be saved, with no scripture to back you up...

good luck with that, all you are is opinion, no fact only opinion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You really believe the word "believe on Him" is synonymous with "do nothing".

I really believe faith in Christ will never be alone, But the works which procede from faith does not now, and will not ever save you, you were saved on your faith. You had to be regenerated BEFORE yuo could work. You were dead, and needed God to perform cpr on you.

You do not think your dead, thats your problem, until you do, you will still try to save yourself. not knowing it is impossible

I gave you a list of scripture, all commands, yet you deny them and think you can do none of them and be saved, with no scripture to back you up...

good luck with that, all you are is opinion, no fact only opinion.

Your dead dude, You need cpr. Stop dreaming, and let God rescue you before it is too late

You can;t walk to the baptismal. YOUR DEAD!

 

[newbirth]

here we go back to the circle again.

Question. Can you ever be obedient enough to save yourself? If you think you can, can you show us what the breaking line of being obedient enough, and not obedient enough is? Or do yuo even know? (no one esle seems to know, even though they preach it)

Your wrong in your assumption. I am saved by FAITH, My FAITH CAUSES OBEDIENCE. If I did not have faith, I WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD ALREADY. But we already know that. Why?

"he who does not believe is CONDEMNED ALREADY because they have not believed in the name of Jesus"

The people who did not have faith were dead before they even walked into the pit, because they did not have faith.

Those who had faith were already saved before the entered, Because they trusted god AND WOULD DO WHAT GOD ASKED THEM TO out of that trust.

you wrongfully teach that we are saved by faith....it is by grace we are saved...through faith....Grace is the operation of God...faith is the operation of man

did God Call..(Grace)??? you must obey...(Faith)
Acts 2:39
For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

Does God lead...(Grace)??...you must follow...(Faith)
Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 

[Jabberjaw]

I really believe faith in Christ will never be alone, But the works which procede from faith does not now, and will not ever save you, you were saved on your faith. You had to be regenerated BEFORE yuo could work. You were dead, and needed God to perform cpr on you.

You do not think your dead, thats your problem, until you do, you will still try to save yourself. not knowing it is impossible




Your dead dude, You need cpr. Stop dreaming, and let God rescue you before it is too late

You can;t walk to the baptismal. YOUR DEAD!

Not one scripture, all opinion, you have no clue what "believe on Him" is, again Peter had belief in the Lord when the Lord told him to get out of the boat and come to Him, if Peter did not have belief he would have went to the bottom of the sea with the first step, then his belief began to fail, but wait, according to you it can't fail? he must have not had it to begin with?

You're in a dream, a very dangerous one.

Matthew 14:28-30 (NKJV)
28 And Peter answered Him and said, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29 So He said, "Come." And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, "Lord, save me!"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not one scripture, all opinion, you have no clue what "believe on Him" is, again Peter had belief in the Lord when the Lord told him to get out of the boat and come to Him, if Peter did not have belief he would have went to the bottom of the sea with the first step, then his belief began to fail, but wait, according to you it can't fail? he must have not had it to begin with?

You're in a dream, a very dangerous one.

Matthew 14:28-30 (NKJV)
28 And Peter answered Him and said, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29 So He said, "Come." And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, "Lord, save me!"

Your dead. You can not save yourself. You can not walk to get baptised. because your dead. You need God to give you CPR, You need God to rescue you. You need God to save you.

Ephesians 2:1
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

 

[newbirth]

I really believe faith in Christ will never be alone, But the works which procede from faith does not now, and will not ever save you, you were saved on your faith. You had to be regenerated BEFORE yuo could work. You were dead, and needed God to perform cpr on you.

You do not think your dead, thats your problem, until you do, you will still try to save yourself. not knowing it is impossible




Your dead dude, You need cpr. Stop dreaming, and let God rescue you before it is too late

You can;t walk to the baptismal. YOUR DEAD!

you are the one saying faith saves...

you were saved on your faith

....we are saved by grace through faith....show your faith without works....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are the one saying faith saves...

It does, because of grace, without grace, my faith would be useless.

...we are saved by grace through faith....show your faith without works....

Your dead, if your faith is dead. then your still dead.

 

[dcontroversal]

lol. Your funny dude.

God sent jesus to be the lamb of God, who REMOVES the sin of the world. God sent jesus to save sinners. God sent Jesus to bring salvation to all nations. God sent jesus to pay the sin of mankind, so he can save us from our sin, God sent jesus to be the propitiation of our sin, so we could be redeemed to him.

When Jesus said it was finished. this is what he did. He paid the prince in full. As col 2 says, he took what was against us (the law) and nailed it to the cross.

Yep, He does have work for us to do. Not to save us, but because we are saved, that work. To love others as God loves us, And be a light into the world in ALL WE DO.




Yep. Continue to save yourself. COntinue to be a pharisee Continue to ignore the fact Jesus said it is finished, Continue to worship a God who kicks his 6 year old kid out of the house because he stole a cookie.

Good luck with that

Makes me think of what the bible states how they deem themselves unworthy of eternal life.....going to be a lot of workers for salvation surprised when they get cast from his presence because they trusted in themselves over the faith of Christ...MANY will come bragging about their works and right to enter and he will say I never knew you...goes to the root of their salvation and the fact that they never had it to begin with

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Makes me think of what the bible states how they deem themselves unworthy of eternal life.....going to be a lot of workers for salvation surprised when they get cast from his presence because they trusted in themselves over the faith of Christ...MANY will come bragging about their works and right to enter and he will say I never knew you...goes to the root of their salvation and the fact that they never had it to begin with

yep, imagine the heartbreak, when people find out all these "works of faith" they did meant nothing, God never knew them, they did nto lose salvation because they did nto do enough work. they NEVER HAD IT!

 

[newbirth]

It does, because of grace, without grace, my faith would be useless.



Your dead, if your faith is dead. then your still dead.

does the scripture say we are saved by grace... through faith?
or does the scripture say we are saved by faith alone?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

does the scripture say we are saved by grace... through faith?
or does the scripture say we are saved by faith alone?

faith minus works is faith alone.

next??