Works can NEVER earn salvation

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Mar 14, 2011
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I know I did not miss understand so let us try another way;
Please explain why the following scriptures does not require water baptism?;

Mark 1:4 tells us that baptism is for the remission of sins....."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

Acts 2; 38-40.... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....."save yourself".

Acts 22;16..... (Saul required to be baptized)...."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Matt.3;11...

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [] and fire.

Matt 3;14,15... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fullfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.


Matt., 28: 18-20... And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mark 16;16... He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I Peter 3;21....... The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

John 3:5.... Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Gal 3;26-27..... For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ

Acts 2: 38-40.... Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [a]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this [b]perverse generation

Acts 9; 14,15,16,18..... And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Acts 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 19:5-6..... When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom. 6;3,4...know ye not,that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 ....Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: like Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

There are more.
But, if you don't accept these of G-d's word no others will help you, probably.
Half those verses speak of spirit baptism not water

Non of them say water baptism saves

Maybe you need to study Greek?
 
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I think it means these guys need to know what repentance is from a book because the Holy Spirit
has not given them conviction of sin, and their hearts are not humbled before the King, so they
just agree with God and carry on sinning. And this great revelation is Gods Holy Spirit setting them
free to know His salvation while sinning without restraint.

Reading the story of Nineveh that is the picture I am not getting. But then these kind of disconnects
do not happen because some other dispensational excuse will be used to say things are different now
sin is forgiven for the world etc. I suppose if you live alone and you can no longer hurt anyone because
they have all left, you can invent whatever you like and it really does make sense.

God bless you, do not let them get to you, they really are unplugged at some fundamental levels,
even when compared to non-believers......


Thank you.
They won't get to me...I have G-d and scripture on my side.
Praise G-d.
Who is G_d
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Half those verses speak of spirit baptism not water

Non of them say water baptism saves

Maybe you need to study Greek?

That is simply...not true.

Folks can read and they see your lame position. Doesn't that concern you...without even considering G-d...?
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Further you appear to be of the opinion that works are not allowed as a righteous life style Christian.

Care to show us that in scriptures?

I wish not to pin you down to close........... because you will fail on that one also.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Half those verses speak of spirit baptism not water
Non of them say water baptism saves
Maybe you need to study Greek?
Dear reader, there is always an assumption of innocence and a believer must be sincerely holding a
reasonable position, dealing with someone who is obviously not understanding a simple point.

But some learn how to create this feeling and words, when it is they themselves who are absurd.
I can believe anything, and be convinced it is true no matter what others put forward, like flat earth believers.
The feeling of knowing the truth which others dumb brainwashed individuals cannot handle is addictive.
It is a feeling, it does not make it true or real.

Imagine this. God can put importance wherever He likes, literally. He is the creator. We love to suggest how
things are because of our perceptions and understanding. This does not make it real, it is though a good working
approach.

So various odd things. Baptism, the washing of water for the forgiveness of sins. Communion, the breaking of bread and
drinking of wine. The temple with holy incense, the blood sprinkled everywhere. The bronze snake that when seen
cured people of snake bites sent as judgement for rebellion.
This is very physical and ceremonial, while Jesus is very faith and repentance orientated, removing most of these
physical manifestations of faith.

This forum illustrates if you remove everything and make it attitude or in your head alone, people abandon all
meaning and significance and put it completely on God, Jesus. Even repentance becomes just acknowledging God
and His attitudes, or maybe just God.

As physical creatures, God leaves enough for us to have to show faith by action, because unless faith works, causes
things to change it is not faith at all. And those who hate working faith, attack any obligation, no matter how small,
that suggests God expects action. Why? Because this differentiates between Gods people who have a changed heart
and those who have words but reside in hardness of heart and a refined theology. God bless you.
 
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That is simply...not true.

Folks can read and they see your lame position. Doesn't that concern you...without even considering G-d...?
So depending on christ alone is lame?

I will let GOD know what you think of his power to save and change you.
 
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Further you appear to be of the opinion that works are not allowed as a righteous life style Christian.

Care to show us that in scriptures?

I wish not to pin you down to close........... because you will fail on that one also.
What is true is you like so many of your buddies are so far out of touch with reality that you are hearing things that no one is saying. Maybe its your upbringing? Maybe its what you have been tought and had pounded into you for many years?

Two things are true....
1. You did not hear that nonsense from God
2. You have never heard that nonsense from any of us.

So if you want to keep believing in lies and continue to slander people with those lies. Then feel free.. just know. God and the world are watching you. When you promote moral living, then lie like its nothing.. your pretty much proving yourself to by a hypocrite and you become untrustworthy
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through
me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done--
19 by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem
all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.
20 It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so
that I would not be building on someone else's foundation.
Rom 15

Paul preaches because of Christs work within him, and he taught gentiles to obey God.

Some preach we just need to agree with God, not obey Him. I hope you can see the difference.
Why on earth would one listen to Jesus and not obey, because Jesus tells us it will destroy us
if we do this?

Maybe some hear the words but are just deaf and blind, because the pain of trying
to obey God without the Holy Spirit is so hard, they would rather not obey God and still claim they
have the Holy Spirit while this just declares they never knew Him at all. Ironic.

Some say to suggest we should love our enemies is putting a burden that is impossible to bare on
others shoulders, except what they do not realise they are just declaring they do not have love in
their hearts at all, so of course it is impossible for them. But then I would say they seriously need
to find Jesus. Seriously, not just as a joke, or winning arguments but as a reality.

This is what the gospel is about. Having love in ones heart for another, unto death, giving ones life
for another.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Hi Fred,
Thanks for the insight into what repentance is and is not.
I look at things the other way around. A repentant soul looks at what they have done and regrets it.
They dearly wish they could undo the evil they have done and put things right and not go down that
path again. Now many of us have gone through these steps and emotions and know the feelings and
desires. It is really this simple, yet you want to take a passage and analyse it etc.

It makes me think some people learn theology from a book and teachers and not basic relationship
realities. My heart is greived for you to be reduced to this sorry state, and literally not be aware of
it. God bless you, may He open your eyes and bring you to repentance, Amen.
Umm, I just learned them from the Books of Book, the Bible. I just gave sense to the word you want me explain. Godly sorrow leads to repentance (change of mind...) Praying you also that God enlighten you and bring you to repentance.

God cares,
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Umm, I just learned them from the Books of Book, the Bible. I just gave sense to the word you want me explain. Godly sorrow leads to repentance (change of mind...) Praying you also that God enlighten you and bring you to repentance.

God cares,
Godly sorrow leads us to desire to walk in the ways of love, the ways of God, the ways of righteousness.
And yes part of this is changing our minds to accept God the King and His ways are best.

I think though these words seem to be what you are claiming to follow, yet clearly not as you seem to
want to disagree. If I have love bursting from my heart and victory in my walk, what am I to you?
Impossible or a liar?

My impression is that is what people actually believe.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Dear reader, there is always an assumption of innocence and a believer must be sincerely holding a
reasonable position, dealing with someone who is obviously not understanding a simple point.

But some learn how to create this feeling and words, when it is they themselves who are absurd.
I can believe anything, and be convinced it is true no matter what others put forward, like flat earth believers.
The feeling of knowing the truth which others dumb brainwashed individuals cannot handle is addictive.
It is a feeling, it does not make it true or real.

Imagine this. God can put importance wherever He likes, literally. He is the creator. We love to suggest how
things are because of our perceptions and understanding. This does not make it real, it is though a good working
approach.

So various odd things. Baptism, the washing of water for the forgiveness of sins. Communion, the breaking of bread and
drinking of wine. The temple with holy incense, the blood sprinkled everywhere. The bronze snake that when seen
cured people of snake bites sent as judgement for rebellion.
This is very physical and ceremonial, while Jesus is very faith and repentance orientated, removing most of these
physical manifestations of faith.

This forum illustrates if you remove everything and make it attitude or in your head alone, people abandon all
meaning and significance and put it completely on God, Jesus. Even repentance becomes just acknowledging God
and His attitudes, or maybe just God.

As physical creatures, God leaves enough for us to have to show faith by action, because unless faith works, causes
things to change it is not faith at all. And those who hate working faith, attack any obligation, no matter how small,
that suggests God expects action. Why? Because this differentiates between Gods people who have a changed heart
and those who have words but reside in hardness of heart and a refined theology. God bless you.
Dear reader, make no mistake about it, the religious hate it when their cover for
sin is removed.

What will happen to them if they have to face their unresolved feeling and actions
of the past and all the religious doctrines they so carefully have constructed fall
apart.

The truth is if people repent and get right with God, revival, renewal and the anointing
of the Holy Spirit.

What is at stake here? Unconfessed sin and emotional chaos that is ruling peoples lives
and simply not believing in the power of the cross to transform and truly save.

People have been religious so long, they have lost the ability to be real and face who they
are, which is something they have been running away from their whole lives.

The pharisees who had to face this, did one thing. They killed Jesus.
So I expect nothing less from unrepentant sinners who hate the truth.
Remember, This guys tried to claim he is not a former banned member, Yet as MANY have shown, there is no getting around it, they do the same stuff.. “Dear Reader” is something all three of his identities have used (2 of which are banned)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Hmmm, more anger. How sad.

There is a real lesson here. Do not engage with the enemy when their intent is only provocation
and slander. It is not difficult be behave like this, and our hearts in Christ believe a believer would
not follow this path. But that is the point, remove the word believer and put in its place the enemy.

Once you see everything is said for harm, how would you deal with that rude, obnoxious, irritating
boy in the class room, whose only intention is to push the limits of whats ok, and has no intention
of anything sensible. And it is sad that such people exist with such animosity against the Lords
people, but they do and they feel it is their place to put down these hypocritical liars and workers
for salvation. Some are foolish enough to declare their intention to destroy another, which should
simply warn them their love and faith have left the building and their true nature is showing.

God bless you all, and may Jesus's love continue to grow in your hearts day by day, Amen.
Integrity of discussion



In every discussion if one is not prepared to leave changed why claim to engage

and not just admit you will state your position and leave. That is fine.



Each statement needs to be something one can hold to and declare.

One also needs to accept all the concepts can be reworded and the truth remain

the same, this is not adulterating the truth, but presenting it in different contexts.



The objective is to come to a conclusion.



I see the real problem is if ones position is clearly defined, the light shone on it and

it does not look good, you will feel bad. That is the reality. Calling people names,

attacking them, claiming it is some spiritual set up does not change reality.

God never changes or His realities. Either come to terms with them today or meet

Him when you die, the Lord is still the same.



He is Holy, Righteous, the judger of all and redeemer of those who love Him and

walk in His ways.
Notice a second form of communication which is identical in all three usernames. They start a paragraph with a BOLDED title. Then explain

Just hope peterjens AKA FollowHisSteps know he is not fooling anyone
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Remember, This guys tried to claim he is not a former banned member, Yet as MANY have shown, there is no getting around it, they do the same stuff.. “Dear Reader” is something all three of his identities have used (2 of which are banned)
Dear Reader,
What are you praying and hoping for today?
Of course, I am not talking about YOU, dear Reader. I am talking about that other guy or gal... and you know who I mean because you feel the same way. LOL
It is amusing, dear reader, if it is a crime of association.
Search for "dear reader" and who comes up, many different folks.

I suspect EG wants something so deeply it annoys him beyond belief.
Getting those he opposes removed by whatever means. Why would this drive someone who is
full of the Holy Spirit, resting in Christ and wanting to share His love and gracious behaviour.

So let us wonder at what kind of heart pursues this line of argument on a public forum talking
about things of God? Is the God he follows not capable of removing members if that was His will?
Is the God he follows so deaf to this urgent need, that above anything else this is the most important
issue to address?

Dear EG, I wish you could be free of this torment that concerns your soul, give it to Jesus and He will
give you peace, Amen.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Notice a second form of communication which is identical in all three usernames. They start a paragraph with a BOLDED title. Then explain
Just hope peterjens AKA FollowHisSteps know he is not fooling anyone
I have to laugh. I do not want to communicate with smooth anymore.
By referencing his name it will notify him of my comment.
So I thought I needed to bold his words to show they are not mine and the subject of my response.

So that then is a trait of another user, so they must be the same. Highlighting is such a personal
finger print. You are the guilty x, you evil, evil individual :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:

To fool someone, you must want to hide something. I am who I am, nothing to hide, except my
actual identity, which is part of my security on a public forum which is open to anyone, literally.
And I would recommend this to anyone, because nutcases get a conviction about you, and then
want to pursue you for whatever reason, to seek their justice. It is called stalking.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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So my conclusion is, it bothers some, so deeply what I share, and others share, they must be this
evil identity of the past. Except, like all these things, this identity behaved just the same, said the
same ideas, theology, so it is not about who, but about what is being shared.

That Jesus loves us so much He died upon the cross so that we might have life everlasting and walk
in His ways.

And the walk was summarised by Paul
13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you
14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
1 Tim 6

14 Do everything without complaining or arguing,
15 so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe
16 as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Phil 2

Paul had working faith, that changed people from sinners into saints, from the worst of people to the
best of people, and he knew God could do it, because he was one, and he saw it in others.

Sadly there as those who claim the name christian but neither have this working faith or believe it is
real. They are so close to the truth, yet deny it, so doubly blind, at the door but refusing to enter.
God help their souls. God bless you who read this, for great is our King and great He is to Save.
 
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And here we have the third thing which differentiates this person from everyone else.

Blame shift.. Refuse to own up to his own sin. Its like getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar and blaming everyone else.

I mean remember, in the years I have been on CC, ONLY THIS ONE PERSON WITH 3 NAMES HAVE USED THESE FORMS OF SPEACH.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Blame shift

I have read EG use this idea before. It normally means, I am not guilty, it was their fault.
And what is the guilt and fault being talked about here? I do not know, because the individual
concerned is never clear. All they do is say it is not my fault I sin, that is the flesh not me.

I take responsibility for my behaviour, like driving a car, a tree does not jump into the road, I
drive into it. This is called repentance. I commit to driving with due care and attention and not
to crash into trees, which means I commit to love all I meet including my enemies and seek to
serve and help them in their need wherever I can. I admit guilt for harm done, and ask God to
forgive me through the cross and His atoning sacrifice upon the cross, as I confess my guilt and
acknowledge Jesus's payment, Amen.

Now if you say we are not responsible for our sin, because Christ has taken it all away, and when
we sin it is like a dream, already resolved, then I suppose the gospel could be called blame shifting.
But this is an odd inversion and delusion about what harm and guilt is. On this basis if I chose to
harm another, I am doing nothing wrong, which is actually the beginning of psychosis, and the point
psychopaths enter the room and need locking up permanently. And if one was a psychopaths you
would see nothing wrong with this, because emotionally all you see is your own desires and no one
elses, and do not register them at all.

I saw a program interviewing a professor of psychology on this disorder. It turned out he was a psychopath,
but his childhood had been so loving and good, his emotional life had never crossed the boundary of
hurting others. He though recognised he had no problem harming another, and would feel nothing wrong
with it.

So I make this simple connection, hurting others matters, and God is 100% concerned about this and our
ability to be aware and to respond. As loving followers of Christ this is our heart also.

God bless you
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
What is true is you like so many of your buddies are so far out of touch with reality that you are hearing things that no one is saying. Maybe its your upbringing? Maybe its what you have been tought and had pounded into you for many years?

Two things are true....
1. You did not hear that nonsense from God
2. You have never heard that nonsense from any of us.

So if you want to keep believing in lies and continue to slander people with those lies. Then feel free.. just know. God and the world are watching you. When you promote moral living, then lie like its nothing.. your pretty much proving yourself to by a hypocrite and you become untrustworthy

I didn't think you had scripture to back the works claim up. So spin comes into play.
You must be a leftist.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Owning up to my own sin

As a believer in Jesus, I own up to it all the time I sin, and repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness.
This is our walk. Listen to John

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives
1 John 1

We need to be aware of our capability to sin, and confess it when we fail. It is wrong to believe we do not
have this capability, rather to be always cautious and always working in our faith.

So when someone accuses me of not owning up to my sin, I realise they cannot read or understand what I write.
God bless them, they have special needs which are beyond my ability to help. :(