Actually if you read the OP I was bringing the conversation back to the point of it. This is not about Salvation and getting saved. It about Hebrews 6. Let us move past John 3:16 faith and get to the mountain moving and greater works faith. This is not a discussion about how a person is saved. It kinda assumes that reader is saved and Spirit filled.
Works
- Thread starter 3Keys2Kingdom
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C
3Keys2Kingdom.
Hebrews 6 doesn't teach a person can lose their salvation.
Faith comes through hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17).
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Paul taught it came by the hearing of faith.
Chuck
Hebrews 6 doesn't teach a person can lose their salvation.
Faith comes through hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17).
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Paul taught it came by the hearing of faith.
Chuck
C
It was most likely a promise for the Apostles and earthly ministry of Jesus' disciples.
There are a lot of health and wealth teachers on TBN that follow their doctors around and tell people they are healed.
My stepsister was a Christian and died of Lymphoma because she decided that taking medicine was not of faith and the doctor told her the cancer would come back in ten years and it did. Should we follow your way of thinking?
There are a lot of health and wealth teachers on TBN that follow their doctors around and tell people they are healed.
My stepsister was a Christian and died of Lymphoma because she decided that taking medicine was not of faith and the doctor told her the cancer would come back in ten years and it did. Should we follow your way of thinking?
I personally believe we are saved by grace through faith, but each person is rewarded by his works. What we sow on earth, we will reap in heaven. There are many examples of this;
“The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.” (2 Samuel 22:21)
"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven" (Matthew 6:20).. "the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds" (Matthew 16:27)
"Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works" (2 Timothy 4:14)
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:12)
So it appears Christians are saved by grace through faith, but equality ends at judgement, where rewards are determined by works.
“The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.” (2 Samuel 22:21)
"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven" (Matthew 6:20).. "the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds" (Matthew 16:27)
"Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works" (2 Timothy 4:14)
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:12)
So it appears Christians are saved by grace through faith, but equality ends at judgement, where rewards are determined by works.
S
Guys it is not one or the other. It is pointing out that you are saved by grace and that grace by which you are saved should be producing the good works. Works that are good are the result of the grace. And it does not have to be healing because Yahweh through his Son Yeshua is the healer not you. Look what Yeshua said about the end results.[SUP]31 [/SUP]“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. [SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [SUP]33 [/SUP]He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, [SUP]36 [/SUP]I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? [SUP]38 [/SUP]When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? [SUP]39 [/SUP]When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
[SUP]40 [/SUP]“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. [SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, [SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” also Mathew 7 [SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, [SUP]36 [/SUP]I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? [SUP]38 [/SUP]When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? [SUP]39 [/SUP]When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
[SUP]40 [/SUP]“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. [SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, [SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” also Mathew 7 [SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers
I find it interesting that the righteous people in the Lord were not even cognizant of the good works they were doing. They weren't aware of "doing good works". They were just responding from their hearts to the people around them not knowing they were directed by the Holy Spirit within them....verse 37-44
The self-righteous on the other hand said.."Lord..look at the good works we did.."..verse 22 but He never knew them..these doing "good works" here were called evildoers by the Lord...
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers
The self-righteous on the other hand said.."Lord..look at the good works we did.."..verse 22 but He never knew them..these doing "good works" here were called evildoers by the Lord...
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers
C
I studied it for years and then I felt the spirit tell me to study and study it. Then I had some breakthroughs and some people were following me around the web hoping I would give them the answers they were seeking.
If we put trust in works then we are not trusting God for salvation.
By working we could be proud and God says He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble which is recorded twice in the Bible.
I believe God says what He means and scripture interprets scripture:
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Romans 11:16)
But I believe we interpret the unclear verses by the clear verses. If Paul says if salvation be of works then salvation is no more of grace. What does that mean? It means you aren't saved. It is clear to me.
We interpret the unclear verses by the clear verses:
John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5.24 is a clear verse. It doesn't say, "might have", "could have" or "would have" but it says, "hath" everlasting life.
John 3:16 is a clear verse:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This is a clear verse:
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
These are non-negotiables. If you teach that you can lose your salvation, someone is going to point me to Hebrews 6 and I'm ready for them and I beat two pastors on this topic on top of that and I am ready for the next person.
What people want to do is reject God's way and come their own way because they aren't saved and they want to earn salvation their own way.
John 10:1 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
You have to come by Jesus and not by your works because Jesus is the door:
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Notice Jesus said, "by me" and not by your works. We enter in by Jesus and not by working our way up by climbing over the fold.
This is basic Christian doctrine and people will be fighting over basic Christian doctrine until Jesus Christ comes back because they won't submit to God's word.
If we put trust in works then we are not trusting God for salvation.
By working we could be proud and God says He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble which is recorded twice in the Bible.
I believe God says what He means and scripture interprets scripture:
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Romans 11:16)
But I believe we interpret the unclear verses by the clear verses. If Paul says if salvation be of works then salvation is no more of grace. What does that mean? It means you aren't saved. It is clear to me.
We interpret the unclear verses by the clear verses:
John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5.24 is a clear verse. It doesn't say, "might have", "could have" or "would have" but it says, "hath" everlasting life.
John 3:16 is a clear verse:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This is a clear verse:
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
These are non-negotiables. If you teach that you can lose your salvation, someone is going to point me to Hebrews 6 and I'm ready for them and I beat two pastors on this topic on top of that and I am ready for the next person.
What people want to do is reject God's way and come their own way because they aren't saved and they want to earn salvation their own way.
John 10:1 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
You have to come by Jesus and not by your works because Jesus is the door:
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Notice Jesus said, "by me" and not by your works. We enter in by Jesus and not by working our way up by climbing over the fold.
This is basic Christian doctrine and people will be fighting over basic Christian doctrine until Jesus Christ comes back because they won't submit to God's word.