YOU ARE A LIAR!!!

[Rightlydivided]

This is exactly why we should show his love and his light all the more because it is abnormal and uncommon and thus that much more powerful.

I have an atheist friend who has a grudge against Christians for this very reason but he says that I am not like any Christian he ever met and that if he grew up around believers like me he might not have given up on faith. His light shines the brightest in the midst of the darkness

Amen, I know many that have been turned away, and it is not that God is unable to keep them....they turned away because of how Gods love through his Son is misrepresented ...he died for them and all the sin in the world, ....how does someone believe that Christ died for the sin of the world, when one of the first things they witness, is someone pointing out sin in such a way that manifest itself, as though Christ didn’t crush the serpent with his heal, as though he didn’t go through the suffering to remove it all......as though you should condemn yourself if you can get rid of it.....no one ever will, and anyone who says they have.......is something I don’t want to say....it’s a life of sanctification, and how do you know what stage they are in?

 

[Rightlydivided]

I am too aware of the damage you are speaking of especially from the fact that the church is the main cause of it all but there is so much anger in your message, were

Sadly I have as well far more than I would like to admit however while I do share your feelings about it I think blasting your message in such anger is the wrong way to send the message. Anger even righteous anger can be a hindrance to the receiving end they won't see or hear the message itself only the fuel behind it.

I do wrestle Blain.

 

[MattforJesus]

While it is true that we should not belittle anyone, and lift the saints up, and edify them, the Bible does say some things concerning those that are hypocritical, which we know there are many, and the Bible tells us that at the end time there will be many hypocrites.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

These people do not allow the Spirit to lead them, and enjoy sins and think they are right with God, which we hear some say they cannot abstain from sins, even though the Bible says if they hate sins, and do not want sins, by the Spirit they can abstain from sins.

God said to turn away from them.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Paul said that if anybody preaches that God blesses them with their wants, above their needs, to withdraw yourselves from them, which we know there are many that claim Christ that believe the prosperity Gospel, and love money, and material things, and enjoy the world.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Those that do not conduct themselves like Christ the Bible says do not keep company with them, but many people say that sin does not affect their relationship with God.

So how does that work when we are not to associate with those who will not conduct themselves like Christ, holding unto sin, which many of them do, and think they are alright with God.

Of course if we sin we can be forgiven, but many people think they are alright despite their sinning, and it is weird that it is even a belief.

So the Bible is plain that those that do not act right, and live that way, to turn away from them, withdraw yourselves from them, and do not associate with them.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

Which their hypocrisy to not act Christlike gives offense to the ministry, as is testified by the world as they say hypocrites.

Of course we are not to hate anyone, but God commands that we act like Christ with no excuses.

 

[Rightlydivided]

You desire testimonies?

I can agree with you wholeheartedly. What is sadly missing these days is the living relationship with Jesus through the Spirit. Everyone seems to be quoting this and that, saying this, not saying that. Saying that people say they don't say enough or haven't said a thing. Or in my case say too much!

What we don't seem to have in abundance is an actual example of the Spirit walking in the flesh!!! That would go a long way to quieting the opposition. A firm answer to humble the mass hysteria of religious panic, I mean zeal.

Amen Walkingtree!

 

[dcontroversal]

This may or may not be received and or argued.....the truth....I have friends that pastor churches in many states and numerous countries....they ALL have the same consensus.....to a man they have all said that almost every problem they have had to deal with as a pastor has come from within the churches they pastor, they ALL say that they get treated better by unbelievers like neighbors, co-workers etc.......

 

[Rightlydivided]

While it is true that we should not belittle anyone, and lift the saints up, and edify them, the Bible does say some things concerning those that are hypocritical, which we know there are many, and the Bible tells us that at the end time there will be many hypocrites.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

These people do not allow the Spirit to lead them, and enjoy sins and think they are right with God, which we hear some say they cannot abstain from sins, even though the Bible says if they hate sins, and do not want sins, by the Spirit they can abstain from sins.

God said to turn away from them.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Paul said that if anybody preaches that God blesses them with their wants, above their needs, to withdraw yourselves from them, which we know there are many that claim Christ that believe the prosperity Gospel, and love money, and material things, and enjoy the world.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Those that do not conduct themselves like Christ the Bible says do not keep company with them, but many people say that sin does not affect their relationship with God.

So how does that work when we are not to associate with those who will not conduct themselves like Christ, holding unto sin, which many of them do, and think they are alright with God.

Of course if we sin we can be forgiven, but many people think they are alright despite their sinning, and it is weird that it is even a belief.

So the Bible is plain that those that do not act right, and live that way, to turn away from them, withdraw yourselves from them, and do not associate with them.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

Which their hypocrisy to not act Christlike gives offense to the ministry, as is testified by the world as they say hypocrites.

Of course we are not to hate anyone, but God commands that we act like Christ with no excuses.

Matt, this is not a grace message.....I’m sorry all but I cannot read this and say amen.....

“These people do not allow the Spirit to lead them, and enjoy sins and think they are right with God, which we hear some say they cannot abstain from sins, even though the Bible says if they hate sins, and do not want sins, by the Spirit they can abstain from sins.”

Who can abstain? If you mean, that through the blood of Christ, you are no longer under the jurisdiction of sin, I can understand....but I fear you litterally mean “if your strong in spirit, your flesh will not sin”......this is the problem!! Your flesh will always be corrupt!! It doesn’t mean you have a ticket to sin freely....it just simply means exactly that.....that is your starting point.....You will not be judged for your Sin! Does that mean we sin freely so that grace may abound...NO, but it doesn’t mean your under its jurisdiction either! You want to sin less, because the gift was free!! And out of LOVE, the Holy Spirit you gain from understand that, has the strength to make you stand.....not a message of fear that you will be judged by your brethren, or God! Fear the lord for NOT believing that he sent his Son to pay for ALL sin.....FEAR that wrath.....believe it or not, he died for the sin of those that were still sinners...everyone was forgiven, ALL. You goto hell for not believing he died for ALL......not sin that you throw at each other, manifesting the idea that Christ didn’t put an end to its penalty!

 

[WalkingTree]

This may or may not be received and or argued.....the truth....I have friends that pastor churches in many states and numerous countries....they ALL have the same consensus.....to a man they have all said that almost every problem they have had to deal with as a pastor has come from within the churches they pastor, they ALL say that they get treated better by unbelievers like neighbors, co-workers etc.......

Oh I believe that. But I also can see by your description that those pastors are not able to do the job at hand. When one is striving along with no effectual change in site one has to question reality of what is going on. Either continue to do what you believe is right, or seek God for wisdom to help you, AND DO IT! Not just make excuses or construct (deconstruct) your life so that it's not really possible. Then wonder why there is no blessing within your house.

We all like to think we are brutally honest with ourselves. The proof is in the pudding. If you can't help them, lead them to someone who can. I mean, really, that is the real mission anyway. Lead them to Jesus. Let the Spirit do the work only he can do. If you don't possess enough faith in the Spirit to do what you know is true just and right, lead them to someone who does. Put the pride away, Please!

 

[preacher4truth]

Oh, a hyper-dispy thread that denies evidence of conversion while embracing antinomianism.

Nothing less than 2 Timothy 3:5 in action.

 

[Rightlydivided]

This may or may not be received and or argued.....the truth....I have friends that pastor churches in many states and numerous countries....they ALL have the same consensus.....to a man they have all said that almost every problem they have had to deal with as a pastor has come from within the churches they pastor, they ALL say that they get treated better by unbelievers like neighbors, co-workers etc.......

Amen dc, we are are not much, but with the Holy Spirit, we can do much! Recognizing that the message of Love and grace is being weighted down by judgement of brethren against brethren, and not reaching those that have NO coverage!!!! They goto the judgement seat with no Lawyer no savior......I have seen so much focus on sin that was already paid for, and no message of “come as you are”!!! Let God take it from there, you delivered them, you planted and watered.....it is scary to think all those that will stand in judgement without Jesus...it may take a long time for someone to see Sin in its real form......DEAD too many people get crazy when they see the sin that Christ died for....he died so you didn’t have to see it that way.....and the Love from that makes you want to be like him..in your own walk, let everyman workout his own salvation. Sin is not good, God hates it, but it was Gods plan that it would be paid for IN FULL....that’s the starting point

 

[dcontroversal]

Oh I believe that. But I also can see by your description that those pastors are not able to do the job at hand. When one is striving along with no effectual change in site one has to question reality of what is going on. Either continue to do what you believe is right, or seek God for wisdom to help you, AND DO IT! Not just make excuses or construct (deconstruct) your life so that it's not really possible. Then wonder why there is no blessing within your house.

We all like to think we are brutally honest with ourselves. The proof is in the pudding. If you can't help them, lead them to someone who can. I mean, really, that is the real mission anyway. Lead them to Jesus. Let the Spirit do the work only he can do. If you don't possess enough faith in the Spirit to do what you know is true just and right, lead them to someone who does. Put the pride away, Please!

Your assessment after the word "that"......is way off base and to be frank based upon a complete ignorance of the facts.....NOTHING I said indicates that any of them are not or have not done their jobs.........SO...how about GET some honesty instead of judgmental opinion...........PLEASE!

 

[WalkingTree]

Who can abstain?

Be holy as he is holy? Messiah in me, my hope of glory? His Word cleanses us, we are children of God, now. His bride is spotless and pure. Though we sinned, we will be made as white as snow. When Jesus appears we will see him as he is, and he will see a purified bride. When does this purification/sanctification happen? All at once, or over a period of time? A nation may have been born in a day, but it's purpose and destiny was played out over thousands of years.

If you would like to start another thread on holiness as defined by the apostles I'd be game.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes, I get excited, but it’s not for myself....The finished work of the cross IS being worked out through those that are “emptying their cup” enough to receive it, Churches all over are preaching “watered down grace”.

Amen!!!

The true message of grace is still too offensive for some.

 

[Rightlydivided]

Oh, a hyper-dispy thread that denies evidence of conversion while embracing antinomianism.

Nothing less than 2 Timothy 3:5 in action.

How long were you waiting to get that one out?

 

[WalkingTree]

Your assessment after the word "that"......is way off base and to be frank based upon a complete ignorance of the facts.....NOTHING I said indicates that any of them are not or have not done their jobs.........SO...how about GET some honesty instead of judgmental opinion...........PLEASE!

kettle met pot... Hint, when your offended it's not the best thing in the world to go on the offense.

Sorry you did not appreciate my perspective. No malice was intended. peace

 

[Rightlydivided]

Be holy as he is holy? Messiah in me, my hope of glory? His Word cleanses us, we are children of God, now. His bride is spotless and pure. Though we sinned, we will be made as white as snow. When Jesus appears we will see him as he is, and he will see a purified bride. When does this purification/sanctification happen? All at once, or over a period of time? A nation may have been born in a day, but it's purpose and will was played out over thousands of years.

If you would like to start another thread on holiness as defined by the apostles I'd be game.

Lol, I think your last sentence summed it up!

 

[dcontroversal]

kettle met pot... Hint, when your offended it's not the best thing in the world to go on the offense.

Sorry you did not appreciate my perspective. No malice was intended. peace

I was not offended, just stating facts.......nothing I said indicated they had not or were not doing their job.........

 

[UnderGrace]

How long were you waiting to get that one out?

Same old accusation, no worries, being called lawless just proves what Paul taught along, but sad really.

 

[UnderGrace]

A nation may have been born in a day, but it's purpose and destiny was played out over thousands of years.

Wow, love this.

We are positionally sanctified, learning to live out our positional sanctification.

 

[WalkingTree]

I was not offended, just stating facts.......nothing I said indicated they had not or were not doing their job.........

Sorry, to be honest, you said the pastors all had more problems with their congregants than with the secular public. (paraphrase if I may) You did not detail the problems. It doesn't matter. They are problems all the same. And the 'consensus' was 'as a pastor I have problems with my church, but not so much with those outside my church.

Again, sorry to describe the situation as you declared but the pastors have problems within their churches, no? So much more than they have with non-believers? As a consensus? If so, it appears to me that they are not successfully leading them to the Spirit for help. Do they think they alone can feed and led them? That may be the first mistake. If a person leads by thinking they are the head and all must get to God through him, well..... A good pastor leads his fold to Jesus for food and water.

 

[dcontroversal]

Sorry, to be honest, you said the pastors all had more problems with their congregants than with the secular public. (paraphrase if I may) You did not detail the problems. It doesn't matter. They are problems all the same. And the 'consensus' was 'as a pastor I have problems with my church, but not so much with those outside my church.

Again, sorry to describe the situation as you declared but the pastors have problems within their churches, no? So much more than they have with non-believers? As a consensus? If so, it appears to me that they are not successfully leading them to the Spirit for help. Do they think they alone can feed and led them? That may be the first mistake. If a person leads by thinking they are the head and all must get to God through him, well..... A good pastor leads his fold to Jesus for food and water.

That is not what I said nor indicated.....you made that leap erroneously and I did not say they had problems with their churches, but that all the issues they have had to deal with came from inside....now to qualify so you can get through your head that the issues came from worldly, immature, hyper religious people who believed they should run the church or would gossip, busy body, cause schisms, or a real mature one...withhold money to financially burden the church because the church voted to do something not unbiblical but something they did not want to do etc.....

The point being......people accurately described in the letters to the seven churches in Asia, people that caused issues like that which Paul dealt with...I will give an example....

One such church had a deacon that was haphazard in his service, skipped church regularly to go to worldly events etc......and many members new in the faith and or some of the regular members were being caused to stumble by this man's actions.....when approached by the Pastor ONE on ONE which told him he need to fulfill the qualifications of a deacon and serve the assembly, show up, put God first etc.....He went out and caused more issues, problems etc.....

Your assessment misses the mark of valid and you are jumping to conclusions that I did not indicate and or even hint at.......sounds like you are one to cause issues in your church and blame the Pastor?