You Are A New Creation!

[LaurenTM]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

A new creation


The problem with using this term to mean your true nature is it is spiritualising or separating out something that cannot be separated.

so do we cut that out of our Bibles then?

gonna be a big sale at Wal-mart for sharp scissors!

seriously, the BIBLE uses that term

Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature: old things are passed away;

and then we read

behold, all things are become new.

II Cor. 5:17


What is going on? Why are some of you poopy doing all over that? Do you not understand it?

 

[LaurenTM]

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that causes Christians to have a schizophrenic understanding of their spiritual identity.

Meds!

I will give out a prescription for more Bible study

 

[Grace777x70]

a fruit inspector?

please read my tagline LOL!

squirt

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved as in going to heaven when you die ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Some people will live in malice and slander towards fellow Christians but they wouldn't smoke or drink or do any of the "biggie sins". In reality they are the same as everyone else - they just don't categorize what they do as being bad like the others.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

 

[LaurenTM]

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved as in going to heaven when you die ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Some people will live in malice and slander towards fellow Christians but they wouldn't smoke or drink or do any of the "biggie sins". In reality they are the same as everyone else - they just don't categorize what they do as being bad like the others.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

well I guess they are talking about the 'fruit' of the Holy Spirit which is basically our charming personalities undergoing radical change so that we are conformed into the image of God's Son. It seems that people have different ideas about that also though, so who knows

So like, what if someone is growing lemons LOL? squirt I'm not the one that came up with the analogy of squirting fruit but it sure is a good one I think

But you are also right about the growth of the tree

A few days ago, I found a newly hatched sphinx moth (I looked it up) walking around and I picked it up. It had little stumpies for wings and looked crippled. Now if I didn't know anything, I would say 'poor thing' but I know that when flutterflies or moths hatch, they look like that

So I put it somewhere safe and came back and looked at if from time to time and the wings filled out of course and became beautiful. The moth just stayed put and waited for the process to complete. Finally, off he flew

I thought that would be a good analogy for a new Christian. Or even one that has never really grown. They should be allowed to grow, in Christ, (their safe place) and not picked on and pulled apart and their 'wings' examined. All in due time.

Of course we need teaching and fellowship and all of that; but we don't need someone trying to do what really only God can do

 

[PeterJens]

Foundational error - We are sinners.

Foundational truth - We are saints.

Interesting response. Both statements are true. But we start as sinners and in faith and following Christ become saints.

The thing I rejoice in is you all believe we can walk righteously, blamelessly in Christ as pure children of God.

I love following Jesus, obeying His word that brings life to my soul.
I love knowing how much I love those I meet and how much we all need the Holy Spirit to flow in our lives.

It is fantastic that all over the world there are brothers and sisters following our Lord and listening to His word.

What has always brought joy to me is to know my inner soul is the same as the one I show to others.
I remember someone saying if only christians walked like Christ. Pity he had not met any real christians.

Do you walk as Christ calls you to? If not, then simply repent, confess, take up your mat and walk.
And how can I do this? Because I am a new creation in Christ, so amen, and praise the Lord.

 

[LaurenTM]

Some people will live in malice and slander towards fellow Christians but they wouldn't smoke or drink or do any of the "biggie sins". In reality they are the same as everyone else - they just don't categorize what they do as being bad like the others.

I just wanted to remark in particular on this also

people like that are good on the 'thou shalt nots' but often will slander and backbite and all the regular 'churchy' sins

Christians are some of the most religious people in the world

put a gag on me haha

 

[FreeNChrist]

Interesting response. Both statements are true. But we start as sinners and in faith and following Christ become saints.

No, you don't make yourself a saint.

 

[miknik5]

One of the biggest reasons people still struggle with sin is because they don't believe they are a new creation. They are taught that they are somehow sinners and saints, which is not true. The old stuff is GONE.

You do not have a sin nature. This is a lie. It was crucified with Christ.

Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

People read this Scripture and somehow they don't believe it, but I'm here to tell you it is true. Your body of sin was brought to nothing. And you are no longer enslaved to sin.

You were reborn in Christ. Yes this is your spirit and His Spirit joined together. Would you ever tell Christ His Holy Temple is somehow unholy? No? But you do every single day you don't believe you were made holy!

Did you realize that Holy Spirit is likened to a Dove? Doves don't land on dead things. That's why Noah's raven didn't return, but the dove did, because she had nowhere to rest her feet.

The Dove rested His feet on YOU! You are His Holy Temple! Why? Because all the sin that was upon you and joined with you, was crucified, you are now dead to sin. And alive to righteousness.

Why is it important I say this? Because you will live out of the nature you believe you are joined with.

If you agree with God and His promises, you will be a partaker in the divine nature, and if you don't you will struggle to live out of your new nature in Christ.

You will try to get to the things of God instead of simply receiving and resting in them.

2 Peter 1:4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.


You live from righteousness.
You live from peace.
You live from joy.
You live from the Kingdom of God.
You live from unity with His Spirit.

If you have any questions about the reality of you being a new creation, feel free to post them in this thread. When you understand the real gospel. You will never be the same, because you truly are a new man. Now let's put him on.

Eph 4:[SUP]22 [/SUP]to put off your old self,[SUP][a][/SUP] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

You're new self is created after the likeness of God in TRUE righteousness and holiness.

That means you're not trying to be righteous. If you are, you're still in the old man. Which is dead.

You're not trying to be holy. You are holy, so you do holy things. Being holy is now your new nature in Christ. Not being holy was your old nature in sin. But now you're not in sin, you're in the Son.

C.

I took the liberty of bolding and enlarging a statement in your post...


What can we "get" that hasn't already been GIVEN to us...and that by GOD...
There is nothing better that can be added to our stature IN CHRIST JESUS...
We are rich...and that not of ourselves...IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD!

 

[miknik5]

We are "holy" provided we REMAIN in HIM...and do not "go out" from HIM...

 

[miknik5]

Interesting response. Both statements are true. But we start as sinners and in faith and following Christ become saints.

The thing I rejoice in is you all believe we can walk righteously, blamelessly in Christ as pure children of God.

I love following Jesus, obeying His word that brings life to my soul.
I love knowing how much I love those I meet and how much we all need the Holy Spirit to flow in our lives.

It is fantastic that all over the world there are brothers and sisters following our Lord and listening to His word.

What has always brought joy to me is to know my inner soul is the same as the one I show to others.
I remember someone saying if only christians walked like Christ. Pity he had not met any real christians.

Do you walk as Christ calls you to? If not, then simply repent, confess, take up your mat and walk.
And how can I do this? Because I am a new creation in Christ, so amen, and praise the Lord.

Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.
Just do all things...learn what pleases HIM...and after doing all things, say of yourself:

I am an unworthy SERVANT...I did what was expected of me.

What type of "work" do you think we can profess before GOD that GOD does NOT already know and has NOT already apportioned to us?

 

[miknik5]

Please review 1Corinthians 4 and expound what Paul meant when he said:

He no longer judges himself?

 

[PeterJens]

You guys are so wise. We should not stand in judgement over each others lifestyles.

But we should confront real sin, because sin is what destroys lives and ones walk with Christ.

But are you actually saying sin does not matter, and righteousness just happens, like does a seed become a plant without water and sunlight?

But you appear to be condemning people for having standards and saying they are hypocrites. Has it never occured to you that you are actually doing the same thing, but stopping people from saying walking with the Lord changes people and compromise matters. You cannot follow Jesus without recognising righteousness matters. Once you say sin is ok, just what everyone does, you have just become religious. But no you are not religious because you have been born again but with no evidence. Opps.

We are called to encourage each other to be pure, blameless, above reproach. But I think this went out the window for some, and low and behold it does not matter. Sounds 100% what sinners go all the time to justify their own sin and compromise. Jesus is powerful, but being addicted to drugs or alcohol is just a minor issue, that does not need dealing with.

 

[miknik5]

I have no problem with hyper grace calling GOD's divine nature GOD DNA. What I do have a problem with is it's denial of Adam's nature that we all have until we die. That's what the gnostics did; they identified only with the spiritual nature and dissociated from a physical identity.

What was taken out of Adam is already being gathered up in CHRIST JESUS.
Which is why CHRIST prayed NOT for the world, but for those whom THE FATHER had given HIM (already) out of the world...

Ye must be born again...is that which is perishable, is reborn of the IMPERISHABLE SEED of CHRIST...(already)...

 

[miknik5]

This is the same dissociative identity process that the gnostic heretics practiced. Only identify with the good, ignore the bad. Basically word of faith, name-it-claim-it salvation.

What did you think the church/the body/the bride signified (already)?

 

[Grace777x70]

well I guess they are talking about the 'fruit' of the Holy Spirit which is basically our charming personalities undergoing radical change so that we are conformed into the image of God's Son. It seems that people have different ideas about that also though, so who knows

So like, what if someone is growing lemons LOL? squirt I'm not the one that came up with the analogy of squirting fruit but it sure is a good one I think

But you are also right about the growth of the tree

A few days ago, I found a newly hatched sphinx moth (I looked it up) walking around and I picked it up. It had little stumpies for wings and looked crippled. Now if I didn't know anything, I would say 'poor thing' but I know that when flutterflies or moths hatch, they look like that

So I put it somewhere safe and came back and looked at if from time to time and the wings filled out of course and became beautiful. The moth just stayed put and waited for the process to complete. Finally, off he flew

I thought that would be a good analogy for a new Christian. Or even one that has never really grown. They should be allowed to grow, in Christ, (their safe place) and not picked on and pulled apart and their 'wings' examined. All in due time.

Of course we need teaching and fellowship and all of that; but we don't need someone trying to do what really only God can do

That's cool!

It's interesting the English word for metamorphosis which is what you described with your Sphinx moth is from the Greek word "methamorphoo". It is used when speaking to being "transformed" by the renewing of the mind in Romans 12:1.

It is also used in Jesus when he was "transformed" on the Mount of Transfiguration. Jesus was transformed to His true self in the spirit when Moses and Elijah were speaking with Him.

The last place it was used was in 2 Cor 3:18 when it says as we behold the glory ( goodness - the good opinion ) of the Lord - we see Him as in a mirror and we see ourselves in Him reflecting back as we are joined as one in the spirit. It's the Holy spirit within us that "transforms" us and not ourselves.

Our job is to "behold" Jesus and with that we see all that He has done.

In every instance of being transformed it is in the "passive voice" which means that something is being done to you - it is not ourselves doing it. That goes right in line with what you said. " but we don't need someone trying to do what really only God can do"

I love how the word of God speaks truth of the rest we have in Christ and that He will perfect that which has been given to Him.

 

[LaurenTM]

No, you don't make yourself a saint.

and the pope doesn't make you one either

 

[FreeNChrist]

You guys are so wise. We should not stand in judgement over each others lifestyles.

But we should confront real sin, because sin is what destroys lives and ones walk with Christ.

But are you actually saying sin does not matter, and righteousness just happens, like does a seed become a plant without water and sunlight?

But you appear to be condemning people for having standards and saying they are hypocrites. Has it never occured to you that you are actually doing the same thing, but stopping people from saying walking with the Lord changes people and compromise matters. You cannot follow Jesus without recognising righteousness matters. Once you say sin is ok, just what everyone does, you have just become religious. But no you are not religious because you have been born again but with no evidence. Opps.

We are called to encourage each other to be pure, blameless, above reproach. But I think this went out the window for some, and low and behold it does not matter. Sounds 100% what sinners go all the time to justify their own sin and compromise. Jesus is powerful, but being addicted to drugs or alcohol is just a minor issue, that does not need dealing with.

Nobody here is saying that sin is "okay". Apparently you are just having a conversation with yourself.

 

[PeterJens]

Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.
Just do all things...learn what pleases HIM...and after doing all things, say of yourself:
I am an unworthy SERVANT...I did what was expected of me.
What type of "work" do you think we can profess before GOD that GOD does NOT already know and has NOT already apportioned to us?

Amen, let us learn how to love all those we meet, express the riches of glory He has done in our hearts.

And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him.”
Rom 15:11

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
1 Cor 4:5

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Phil 4:8

 

[LaurenTM]

But we should confront real sin, because sin is what destroys lives and ones walk with Christ.

can anybody but God forgive us our sins?

and what is real sin? is there fake sin of some kind?

I don't understand what you are trying to say

are you trying to create or do you think there is a two or three tier sin system?

ALL sin is missing the mark. ALL of it

grim I know

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are "holy" provided we REMAIN in HIM...and do not "go out" from HIM...

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Seems to me it is all of him, His work. We are holy (set apart) because of what he did, Not because of what we do. It is his work in us,

Some should stop trying to take credit.. and give it back to God where it belongs.