You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.

Pilgrimshope · May 20, 2022

“The issue is not should we be water baptized, but that it can never wash away sins. If it could, Christ would of never went to the Cross.”

still On the baptism argument huh lol you make me smile brother

Though it is rather exhausting spiritually going in the same circle when scripture tells the story itself repetitively but then we just can’t accept it for whatever reason. God established baptism in water for remission of sins.

Jesus was baptized in water as an example for his followers. all His disciples were baptized in water before he came forth and after he came forth people were all getting baptized in water for remission of sins before he shed the holy Ghost forth at pentocost and after he shed forth the Holy Ghost

because Gods word establishes repentance and baptism in water for remission of sins. Before Jesus preached , during his ministry , and also after his resurrection and gave the great commission for them to preach the gospel and baptize in his name.

receiving the Holy Spirit doesn’t remit our sins , doing what Gods word says to do remits our sins. Getting baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ in his name remits sins.

none of it changes because you have erased it in your opinion and made the argument “ water baptism “ doesn’t matter (as if there’s some other way to get baptized for remission of sin that’s found anywhere but in your own idea. The problem is is contrary to what is in the Bible.

Johns baptism in water for remission isn’t replaced it is continued after they all received the Holy Ghost like John was full Of the Holy Ghost when baptizing them in water.

it’s just being taught before Jesus was made known but it’s established for after he was resurrected like the rest of the gospel it’s basic church doctrine to get baptized in water for remission of sins because you hear about what God said and believe it’s true.

the other “Baptism “ is something only Jesus does from heaven it’s to receive the Holy Ghost because you believe the gospel it’s a freely given gift because I believe the gospel nothing else but actually believing his word matters.

that’s “ he will Baptize you with the Holy Ghost “ John the Baptist foretold it

It’s what Jesus promised

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when they received the Holy Ghost Peter preached the gospel and then said in conclusion

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After beginning the argument in Joel quoting the prophet saying

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: ………And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism has never changed we get baptized in water for remission of sins that’s something we do in Jesus name based on our faith in his life death and resurrection for us.

this is Peter to the church after receiving the Holy Ghost from Jesus

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38

This is Peter later sent to Gentiles who believed still himself having the Holy Ghost

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44‬ ‭

All the Gentiles that believe receive the Holy Ghost promise from Jesus Watch now the immediate response it’s just like pentocost they received the spirit through belief but now ?

“And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:45-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just like the Jew they are born of spirit because they believe the word of the gospel , and tbey get baptized in water for remission of sins and rise up with a new clean conscience having thier sins remitted Gods way

because they believe in Jesus they are being baptized into his death burial and resurrection. It’s something a believer does non believers who don’t understand baptisms significance are t going to bother to them it’s just plain ole water Gods blessing and purpose for water baptism has no place in tbier thinking it’s made up just water ….nothing more

But you already know my position on baptism and I know yours too seems like a circle brother

FreeGrace2 · May 20, 2022

DavidTree said:

Correct!!

And...neither did Jesus add water baptism in John 3. When He told Nic one must be born of water and born of the Spirit in v.5, He was clarifying for Nic who was quite confused and thought Jesus meant TWO physical births in v.3 when Jesus said he must be BORN AGAIN.

But v.6 totally clarifies what Jesus meant in v.5 about being born of water and of the Spirit by saying "that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit".

DavidTree · May 20, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Correct!!

And...neither did Jesus add water baptism in John 3. When He told Nic one must be born of water and born of the Spirit in v.5, He was clarifying for Nic who was quite confused and thought Jesus meant TWO physical births in v.3 when Jesus said he must be BORN AGAIN.

But v.6 totally clarifies what Jesus meant in v.5 about being born of water and of the Spirit by saying "that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit".

100% Straight UP Truth = (moving forward)

DavidTree · May 20, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

“The issue is not should we be water baptized, but that it can never wash away sins. If it could, Christ would of never went to the Cross.”

still On the baptism argument huh lol you make me smile brother

Though it is rather exhausting spiritually going in the same circle when scripture tells the story itself repetitively but then we just can’t accept it for whatever reason. God established baptism in water for remission of sins.

Jesus was baptized in water as an example for his followers. all His disciples were baptized in water before he came forth and after he came forth people were all getting baptized in water for remission of sins before he shed the holy Ghost forth at pentocost and after he shed forth the Holy Ghost

because Gods word establishes repentance and baptism in water for remission of sins. Before Jesus preached , during his ministry , and also after his resurrection and gave the great commission for them to preach the gospel and baptize in his name.

receiving the Holy Spirit doesn’t remit our sins , doing what Gods word says to do remits our sins. Getting baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ in his name remits sins.

none of it changes because you have erased it in your opinion and made the argument “ water baptism “ doesn’t matter (as if there’s some other way to get baptized for remission of sin that’s found anywhere but in your own idea. The problem is is contrary to what is in the Bible.

Johns baptism in water for remission isn’t replaced it is continued after they all received the Holy Ghost like John was full Of the Holy Ghost when baptizing them in water.

it’s just being taught before Jesus was made known but it’s established for after he was resurrected like the rest of the gospel it’s basic church doctrine to get baptized in water for remission of sins because you hear about what God said and believe it’s true.

the other “Baptism “ is something only Jesus does from heaven it’s to receive the Holy Ghost because you believe the gospel it’s a freely given gift because I believe the gospel nothing else but actually believing his word matters.

that’s “ he will Baptize you with the Holy Ghost “ John the Baptist foretold it

It’s what Jesus promised

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when they received the Holy Ghost Peter preached the gospel and then said in conclusion

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After beginning the argument in Joel quoting the prophet saying

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: ………And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism has never changed we get baptized in water for remission of sins that’s something we do in Jesus name based on our faith in his life death and resurrection for us.

this is Peter to the church after receiving the Holy Ghost from Jesus

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38

This is Peter later sent to Gentiles who believed still himself having the Holy Ghost

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44‬ ‭

All the Gentiles that believe receive the Holy Ghost promise from Jesus Watch now the immediate response it’s just like pentocost they received the spirit through belief but now ?

“And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:45-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just like the Jew they are born of spirit because they believe the word of the gospel , and tbey get baptized in water for remission of sins and rise up with a new clean conscience having thier sins remitted Gods way

because they believe in Jesus they are being baptized into his death burial and resurrection. It’s something a believer does non believers who don’t understand baptisms significance are t going to bother to them it’s just plain ole water Gods blessing and purpose for water baptism has no place in tbier thinking it’s made up just water ….nothing more

But you already know my position on baptism and I know yours too seems like a circle brother

Water baptism is the righteous work of God for us to follow in faith - but it is NOT the Work of God that saves us.

The Work of God, that HE Finished on the Cross grants us Sanctification and REST - Period.

The righteous act of water baptism is only outward = it can never wash away the stain of sin on a man's heart(conscience).

But this Eternal Water can =

A.) "these words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life."

B.) "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth."

C.) Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

D.) “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

E.) "that which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is spirit"

The death sentence is not on those who have never been water baptized = but it is on those who add to the Finished Work of Christ.
Thus religion places emphasis on the outward.

KelbyofGod · May 21, 2022

DavidTree said:

Water baptism is the righteous work of God for us to follow in faith - but it is NOT the Work of God that saves us.

The Work of God, that HE Finished on the Cross grants us Sanctification and REST - Period.

The righteous act of water baptism is only outward = it can never wash away the stain of sin on a man's heart(conscience).

But this Eternal Water can =

A.) "these words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life."

B.) "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth."

C.) Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

D.) “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

E.) "that which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is spirit"

The death sentence is not on those who have never been water baptized = but it is on those who add to the Finished Work of Christ.
Thus religion places emphasis on the outward.

One obstacle in your way is that you think salvation is a one-step process.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Magenta · May 21, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

Too funny

Pilgrimshope said:

Where does Scripture say this?

DavidTree · May 21, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

It would be helpful if you explained yourself instead of a 'one step' process.

The Way of Salvation has been clearly shown in the Gospel which was first spoken in Genesis.
There were 6 examples given in my post.

The 7th is this:
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Peace

KelbyofGod · May 21, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Even though the purpose of water baptism is established at the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ (Mark 1:1-4) as being "for the remission of sins" before Jesus even began to teach... and is confirmed word for word in Luke 3:3... Even if people ignore,dismiss, disregard, etc those statements (of water baptism's biblically stated purpose) they are still left with the fact that remission if sins is not in the hands of the believing individual.

Jesus put that power into the hands of those he sent out to baptize. Sound fantastical? Let's prove it in the Word.

When Jesus was instructing his remaining disciples after his resurrection (but before his ascension Matthew 28:16-20, Mark 16:14-18, Luke 24:47-49, John 20:21-23) he is telling them two main things in his sending them out to preach:

Baptize them in water
You (and they) need to receive the Holy Ghost... Don't go until you receive that.

I say that water baptism is "for the remission of sins" (accomplishes remission of sins) and is therefore a NECESSARY part of salvation.

You say water baptism does NOT accomplish remission of sins and is therefore not a necessary part of salvation.

But in his commands, Jesus made a statement that fits only one of these doctrines.

He said "Whose soever sins YE REMIT, they are remitted unto them; And whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained." (John 20:23)

That means "IF you do water baptize them, as I am commanding you to do, their sins will be remitted... but if you don't water baptize them, they'll still have their sins."

That fits what i have been teaching. It doesn't fit what you have been teaching.

FreeGrace2 said:

Water baptism does what water baptism was/is established to do (remission of sins...a necessary REMOVAL process).

Spirit baptism does what Spirit baptism was/is established to do. (This is a process of ADDITION and it too is NECESSARY.).

Each one does something specific that cannot be accomplished by the other.

They are separate items and the scriptural examples both keep them, and keep them accomplishing their stated separate purposes.

Your quoted comment in this area, too, is false.

I want to be honest and tell you that your past actions indicate that you will probably brush lightly over the verses I pointed you towards, and also lightly disregard the importance of John 20:23; but I am praying for you and others who have spoken similarly and therefore I still have hope regarding you. That might sound patronizing today, but one day I hope you remember it positively.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · May 21, 2022

DavidTree said:

Most people who quote John 3:16 usually interpret it as "anyone who believes in Jesus is automatically saved" (a single step) without so much as needing to repent (although they'll add that later if you ask about it, usually along with some "sinners prayer" or other necessary work to make sure they really mean it.)

They believe SOMETHING, often including an HONEST belief in God and even the worth of the Bible and the Sonship of Jesus, but usually don't have much resembling what the apostles had (and even carry that fact as a badge of honor).

But they don't know what the words mean. If they pray sincerely, God would open stuff to them. But most have a doctrine that God doesn't actually speak anymore, and that if they ask God, they're actually "doubting" and again God won't answer, but now it's because of their unbelief. (Notice a pattern?)

It's an effective but cruel way of separating the people from the God who calls them.

That's one of the reasons I point people towards God rather than towards particular churches. If they get ahold of God, He will lead them to a church to gather with. But if they learn to listen to a "church" first, they are likely to stop seeking God before he answers them. And then get filled with a bunch of doctrine that doesn't work.

I was raised in a church that teaches what you teach...and I believed and taught it to others. But I was fortunate enough to find myself in situations that needed GOD to answer/fix. And in these situations, those doctrines fell flat and I had to seek God for myself. And then I saw him MOVE, (speak, answer, heal, etc.).

I know God is still alive and still speaking because he still answers my prayers and even the prayers of those who listen to how I tell them to pray. (As if God is likely to answer instead of snub them.)
And they see God move, too.

Those who teach John 3:16 as if it's all a person needs usually have some knowledge of the Bible... But they just don't have the power to get much done. That's fine if a person wants to have a form of godliness but not the power. (Fine in terms of they're operating their right to choose, but not in terms of if they want to be accepted in God's eyes.)

That's not OK with me. I dont need religion that is only functional in church. I need the GOD who does what he says. And He's happy to be that for me (and others).

I realize this is a bit of a rant, but it's a rant about how God ANSWERS like he did in the Bible instead of how God DID answer..but that was in the bible.

Both will gladly quote the Bible, but one of those doctrines puts the Bible in the past only. Not cool. And not true (except that He is "I AM" in the present, the past, and the future.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. - Hebrews 13:8

If that seems to be a dodge of your question, feel free to ask for something more specific. Like I said, this is a bit of a rant. Rants tend to veer off towards additional topics.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · May 21, 2022

DavidTree said:

I guess I should say that at least 4 of your points (A,B, C, &D) included a phrase about believing his word. His word says "Repent and be baptized,every one of you, in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins".

I believe that word to the point of submitting myself to it, in action, and I received the same Holy Ghost that was promised.

And I see the same results, too

Wouldn't you like the same?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

FreeGrace2 · May 21, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

Because it actually is. Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

God offers, man accepts. One step.

FreeGrace2 · May 21, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

What you apparently don't understand is that John the baptizer's baptism isn't even for the church age. He was sent as the one who preceded the Lord and announcing Him. His baptism is totally different than the water baptism during the church age.

That maybe your primary error.

You can think what you want. But the FACT remains that the baptism of John ISN'T the baptism of the church age.

We get the reason for water baptism during the church age from 1 Pet 3:21, where literal water SYMBOLIZES the (Holy Spirit) baptism that does now save.

Unless one understands the clear difference between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism, one cannot understand any verse that mentions the word.

Because Acts 10:43 tells us WHERE forgiveness (remission) of sins comes from.

"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Though many of your view will take "through His name" as a reference to water baptism, there is no reason or contextual evidence to support it. The phrase "through His name" clarifies the phrase "believes in Him". It is in Jesus Christ that belief results in forgiveness of sins.

You are not differentiating between John's baptism and church age baptism.

What "quoted comment" are you referring to? You should have simply copied the quote and then EXPLAIN why it is false, if you can.

No, I didn't "brush lightly over the verses". I pointed out that John's baptism is totally DIFFERENT than church age baptism.

You do not understand 1 Peter 3:21 at all.

DavidTree · May 21, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

Good Morning Kelby,

Thank you for sharing your experiences with religion and God.
And i agree with you that God searches the heart and knows those who are his.

Pertaining to this thread - it is IMPOSSIBLE for outward fleshly water to wash away the internal sins of a mans heart.
This is PURE Bible TRUTH.
i am isolating from Scripture the only Power of God that HE made available to mankind for forgiveness of sins.
YES, repentance is a necessary step to be saved = 100% Truth.

i know all the scriptures pertaining to water baptism, which i believe, have partaken in and also water baptize believers in Christ.

Salvation is never a 'one step process' as religion would make it.

Salvation is ONE PERSON who came to Finish the Work of God and in fact, did so.
There is only ONE means for removal of sins made available to mankind = Faith in the cleansing shed Blood of Christ

"And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God."
1 Peter 1:17-21

KelbyofGod · May 21, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

it's a strait gate and narrow way. Jesus often spoke of those who hear and don't do... Or do at first but quit when the going gets tough, or get led astray by the cares (troubles, stresses), riches and pleasures of this life... they all get cast into the fire.

He says many will say Lord, Lord and yet be cast away because when they had the opportunity to do, they did not.

Jesus warned against claiming Abraham as your father (saying you are children of faith) if you don't bring forth the fruits of repentance.

John the Baptist warned against it similarly saying "Yeah, I'll baptize you. But if you don't follow through on the repentance part, He that comes will thoroughly purge his floor" (paraphrased)

The bible teaches "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" but what do you teach your converts? Is it "You don't have to fear OR work out your own salvation... You're SAVED!"?

Working something out does not imply an effortless endeavor. Nor does "take up your cross and follow me" or "crucify the deeds of the flesh", etc.

Or "let us therefore fear, lest a promise being left us of entering in, any of you seem to come short of it". Or "if you search for me with all your heart".

I know God is quick to answer. And I thank God for that. But have you read what happens to those who have tasted of his goodness and then decide to return to the ways of the flesh? Its not good for them. It would have been better for them not to have known.

Do you think it ended well for Judas Iscariot who was rightfully given the position of apostle, then let Satan enter his heart?

How many lessons will people ignore and think God won't bring them to their remembrance on judgement day?

"And what did you do with this lesson?"

"..."

Love In Jesus,
Kelby.

KelbyofGod · May 22, 2022

DavidTree said:

Its not the work ofthe fleshly water... Its the answer (reply, response) of a good (functioning) conscience to the word of God.

1 Peter 3:21 KJV
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

And baptism is NOT the fullness of salvation (as some interpret this verse to mean). And YES, the word says and means that baptism produces an aspect of salvation.

People need to pray about verses until God clearly reveals what it means. And Jesus said (in my paraphrase) "Don't discuss it among yourselves... If you don't learn to hear from the Father, you won't make it to me". (John 6:43-45)

You can't trust the hearing of your ears, or lean on your own understanding. It requires a person to get alone with God and learn to hear from HIM. He is the only one who can open the correct understanding.

Without that, people will be led astray even if they hear the word from Jesus' own lips (as was the case for the MULTITUDES who heard Jesus but didnt learn to take things to God in the Bible).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · May 22, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

I have been focusing on the very foundations... The first mentions... The way God himself initially set it up.

When people are willing to ignore (re-write, replace, redefine) the first statements (unjust in that which is least) they are also willing to ignore the meaning of the latter statements.(unjust in that which is much)

The bible states the purpose of baptism right at the beginning. You might not like it, but you have no right redefining or reinterpreting what it says.

It says John was preaching and baptizing the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. People who were willing to submit to that were granted their sins to be washed away (because of their obedience to the word and faith in God's message through those He sends).

If that changed later, we could look at what changes are made, and when... But if you don't admit what is clearly stated at the beginning, why should you expect to be trusted at what is built on that basic foundation?

In my estimation, you are refusing the clear statements about John's baptism because you have allowed your perceptions about later events to inform the earlier events. But God manifest them in the world AND in the word in the other order.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · May 22, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

One verse I said your past indicates you will take lightly is John 20:23 where Jesus says "Whose soever sins YE REMIT, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained"

So... Did Jesus give them the power to remit other people's sins?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

DavidTree · May 22, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

CORRECT - You said: "Its not the work of the fleshly water... Its the answer (reply, response) of a good (functioning) conscience to the word of God."

CORRECT: 1 Peter 3:21 KJV
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

CAN you HEAR what was Said HEAR???

A.) you cannot be saved thru water baptizing your flesh
B.) a 'Good conscience' can only mean ONE THING = "toward God"
C.) which is FAITH in the Death, Burial and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ

Can you HEAR this ONE THING that SAVES us?

DavidTree · May 22, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

No HE did not - that Power only is with God = the LORD Jesus Christ

Therefore why exactly did Jesus say this to THEM? and what are you hearing?

FreeGrace2 · May 22, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

That verse is speaking of the PRESENT TENSE salvation. There are 3 tenses of salvation.

Past tense: we HAVE BEEN SAVED from the penalty of sin. Justification
Present tense: we ARE BEING SAVED from the power of sin. Sanctification
Future tense: we WILL BE SAVED from the presence of sin. Glorification.

If you disagree with any of these tense, please explain.

Absolutely correct!! Sanctification takes great effort. But does not save our souls from hell. Those being sanctified are ALREADY saved.

Judas NEVER believed. Of course it "didn't work out well" for him.

Do you actually believe that one's salvation can be lost??

You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.

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Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned