You who are without sin, throw the first stone!
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M
love doesn't throw stones
Please read 1 John I suggest the entire book
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
find out why this is so and you will stop throwing stones at yourself *_*
P.S. anyway
I'n just to old to sin I don't have the energy ha ha
Please read 1 John I suggest the entire book
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
find out why this is so and you will stop throwing stones at yourself *_*
P.S. anyway
I'n just to old to sin I don't have the energy ha ha
H
Hi Bookends,
No doubt you think of 'sin' as bad behavior and in those terms I agree with you that we are not perfect. So I can assure you I am not one of those self-righteous legalists who preach perfect obedience to the law (or some allegedly higher ambiguous code of behavior) is to be achieved as proof of your salvation.
But, how we define "sin" is important. It helps us understand scripture correctly.
Unfortunately man's traditional definitions of "sin" are ambiguous. Whilst we do not live perfect lives in this physical (and God disciplines us should we do wrong), this imperfection is not defined as sin in scripture.
Instead, God has given us specific definitions which are the only ones to use to understand scripture.
God’s definitions of sin are basically covered by the following examples:
1: Mark 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This sin will not be forgiven. Christians do not commit this sin.
2: John 16:9 Unbelief in Jesus. This is the sin the world is convicted of. Christians do not commit this sin either.
3: 1John5:17 “all unrighteousness is sin”. Christians are righteous in Christ so here we do not sin.
4: 1John3:4 “Sin is transgression of the law”. This is breaking the 10 commandments resulting in a death penalty for transgression.
Christians cannot be accused of sin here as we are not under the law of sin and death.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets free from the law of sin and death, (Rom 8:2).
Regarding the law of sin and death it should be noted that:
“whatever the law says it says to those who are under it” (Rom 3:19).
“the law was not made for a righteous person (Christians), but for…the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9).
“where there is no law there is no transgression (SIN)” (Rom 4:15).
We know sin was dealt with once and for all on the cross.
And “Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed” Rom 6:6.
Hence we see in 1Pet 4:1 “Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin”.
And note Rom 3:25: "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,"
It was only our past sins that were forgiven. That means there is no more forgiveness of sin after this as sin was finally dealt with.
And this is confirmed by the following scriptures:
1Pet 4:1 that we have 'ceased from sin'.
1John3:9 “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed (Christ) remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God”.
Rom 6:2 asks “How shall we that are dead to sin, live in it any longer?”.
Finally, consider 1Pet 4:18 “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear”.
Clearly there are 2 different groups described here.
Group 1: Righteous (and saved).
Group 2: Ungodly/Sinner (unsaved).
Either we are righteous (in Christ) OR we are sinners. We can't be both.
Truly Jesus set us free from sin (John 8:36).
Now, as a believer, we are no longer a sinner deserving of death. We are children of God, righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10), perfected (Heb 10:14) and cannot sin (1John 3:9), by Christ's one offering. It is Christ in us that imputes this to us, just as with the thief on the cross.
No doubt you think of 'sin' as bad behavior and in those terms I agree with you that we are not perfect. So I can assure you I am not one of those self-righteous legalists who preach perfect obedience to the law (or some allegedly higher ambiguous code of behavior) is to be achieved as proof of your salvation.
But, how we define "sin" is important. It helps us understand scripture correctly.
Unfortunately man's traditional definitions of "sin" are ambiguous. Whilst we do not live perfect lives in this physical (and God disciplines us should we do wrong), this imperfection is not defined as sin in scripture.
Instead, God has given us specific definitions which are the only ones to use to understand scripture.
God’s definitions of sin are basically covered by the following examples:
1: Mark 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This sin will not be forgiven. Christians do not commit this sin.
2: John 16:9 Unbelief in Jesus. This is the sin the world is convicted of. Christians do not commit this sin either.
3: 1John5:17 “all unrighteousness is sin”. Christians are righteous in Christ so here we do not sin.
4: 1John3:4 “Sin is transgression of the law”. This is breaking the 10 commandments resulting in a death penalty for transgression.
Christians cannot be accused of sin here as we are not under the law of sin and death.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets free from the law of sin and death, (Rom 8:2).
Regarding the law of sin and death it should be noted that:
“whatever the law says it says to those who are under it” (Rom 3:19).
“the law was not made for a righteous person (Christians), but for…the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9).
“where there is no law there is no transgression (SIN)” (Rom 4:15).
We know sin was dealt with once and for all on the cross.
And “Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed” Rom 6:6.
Hence we see in 1Pet 4:1 “Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin”.
And note Rom 3:25: "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,"
It was only our past sins that were forgiven. That means there is no more forgiveness of sin after this as sin was finally dealt with.
And this is confirmed by the following scriptures:
1Pet 4:1 that we have 'ceased from sin'.
1John3:9 “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed (Christ) remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God”.
Rom 6:2 asks “How shall we that are dead to sin, live in it any longer?”.
Finally, consider 1Pet 4:18 “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear”.
Clearly there are 2 different groups described here.
Group 1: Righteous (and saved).
Group 2: Ungodly/Sinner (unsaved).
Either we are righteous (in Christ) OR we are sinners. We can't be both.
Truly Jesus set us free from sin (John 8:36).
Now, as a believer, we are no longer a sinner deserving of death. We are children of God, righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10), perfected (Heb 10:14) and cannot sin (1John 3:9), by Christ's one offering. It is Christ in us that imputes this to us, just as with the thief on the cross.
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I am completely aware what sin is, thanks Haz. I realize that Christ's blood is sufficient to cover my sin in my short comings. Also the fact that I'm concern about the war in my flesh and desire to walk in the pattern of my Lord is the indication in my spirit that I am saved. Unfortunately that are some Holiness perfect law keepers on this site who claim we have to live a sinless life to be saved.
The fact is we still sin, the very reason James said to confess your sin to one another to the believers, is also an indication we still sin!
James 5:16
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
I think many Christians don't understand that those who authentically repent and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior receive salvation positionally, but inwardly are we are work our salvation with fear and trembling, it now our inward soul, our heart that need transformation (which I believe the bible teaches we can't achieve this inward sanctification 100% until we are raised again incorruptible.
James 5:16
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
I think many Christians don't understand that those who authentically repent and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior receive salvation positionally, but inwardly are we are work our salvation with fear and trembling, it now our inward soul, our heart that need transformation (which I believe the bible teaches we can't achieve this inward sanctification 100% until we are raised again incorruptible.
W
- For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
- Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
- Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
Seem to be present tense to me.
What the bible seems to keep coming back to is that we should not live in sin or be controlled by sin.
I don't think it is possible to stop sinning altogether, but I do think it is possible to be released from the compulsion to sin.
(i.e: I still loose my temper now and then, but not by far as often as I used to, because I am reminded by the holy spirit to think before I act/ talk/ think
)
- Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
- Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
Seem to be present tense to me.
What the bible seems to keep coming back to is that we should not live in sin or be controlled by sin.
I don't think it is possible to stop sinning altogether, but I do think it is possible to be released from the compulsion to sin.
(i.e: I still loose my temper now and then, but not by far as often as I used to, because I am reminded by the holy spirit to think before I act/ talk/ think
)
H
Hi Bookends and wwjd_kilden ,
I too have come across some who preach works of perfect behavior as proof of salvation, whether it be of the law or some alleged higher ambiguous righteousness. I can understand your concern as their gospel is self-righteous works re-badged as grace that allegedly enables one to live perfectly, thus proving salvation.
I hope you can see why scripture says we have 'ceased from sin' (1Pet 4:1), 'cannot sin' (1John 3:9), 'freed from sin' (Rom 6:7, John 8:36) and are righteous and not sinners (1Pet 4:18). Remember it was only past sin that was forgiven (Rom 3:25). That means there is no more 'sin' (as defined in scripture) as it was dealt with on the cross for those who believe on Jesus.
Regarding the reference by wwjd_kilden to Rom 7, I'll offer my understanding of it for your consideration.
His reference to Rom 7 is not speaking of present tense, being a Christian. Yes, mankind has a battle going on within (Rom 7:23) and only one can rule. Either the Flesh rules or the Spirit.
As for Christians however, it's the Spirit that rules if we endure to the end, believing Gods promise of salvation in Christ Jesus.
Note Rom 7:5 'When we were in the flesh...'
Also note Rom 8:9 'But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit...'
How did this come about?
Rom 7:24,25
'O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!So then, with the mind (ruled by the Spirit) I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh (ruled by the flesh/carnally minded) the law of sin (self-righteousness).
Either we are obedient unto righteous by faith (Rom 4:5), which is being in the Spirit, or we are in rebellion, being in the flesh trying to establish our own righteousness (sin) and thereby not submitting to the righteousness of God (Rom 10:3).
blessings
I too have come across some who preach works of perfect behavior as proof of salvation, whether it be of the law or some alleged higher ambiguous righteousness. I can understand your concern as their gospel is self-righteous works re-badged as grace that allegedly enables one to live perfectly, thus proving salvation.
I hope you can see why scripture says we have 'ceased from sin' (1Pet 4:1), 'cannot sin' (1John 3:9), 'freed from sin' (Rom 6:7, John 8:36) and are righteous and not sinners (1Pet 4:18). Remember it was only past sin that was forgiven (Rom 3:25). That means there is no more 'sin' (as defined in scripture) as it was dealt with on the cross for those who believe on Jesus.
Regarding the reference by wwjd_kilden to Rom 7, I'll offer my understanding of it for your consideration.
His reference to Rom 7 is not speaking of present tense, being a Christian. Yes, mankind has a battle going on within (Rom 7:23) and only one can rule. Either the Flesh rules or the Spirit.
As for Christians however, it's the Spirit that rules if we endure to the end, believing Gods promise of salvation in Christ Jesus.
Note Rom 7:5 'When we were in the flesh...'
Also note Rom 8:9 'But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit...'
How did this come about?
Rom 7:24,25
'O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!So then, with the mind (ruled by the Spirit) I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh (ruled by the flesh/carnally minded) the law of sin (self-righteousness).
Either we are obedient unto righteous by faith (Rom 4:5), which is being in the Spirit, or we are in rebellion, being in the flesh trying to establish our own righteousness (sin) and thereby not submitting to the righteousness of God (Rom 10:3).
blessings
Something to ponder and, perhaps, meditate. All who have accepted Jesus, Yeshua, in spirit and truth as his or her Savior is counted as without sin.
Now, having said that, I do not want to cast stones at anyone. We have the teaching to choose mercy and not to judge, and this is a great freedom, amen.
I hope this is not too off-the-wall to be considered a serious reply.
Now, having said that, I do not want to cast stones at anyone. We have the teaching to choose mercy and not to judge, and this is a great freedom, amen.
I hope this is not too off-the-wall to be considered a serious reply.
We are born in sin, we need Christ for our salvation beyond our works.
When Christ completed His work of those three days after the cross, there was a great change in the world. But in the time frame of God, in the time frame of eternity, Christ was from the beginning. The whole sacrificial system was a shadow of that happening in our time. We can go to scripture from the beginning to get some details of the work that Christ did for us for a shadow reflects something solid and real. The blood of animals reflected the blood of Christ. One of the sacrifices was not because of sin, but because we are born in sin.
We have knowledge of good and evil, we have need of Christ’s saving blood beyond the sin that we commit. If we only did what was good always, we would still need Christ. Works will not make us acceptable, only Christ. We are saved by grace, not works.
That doesn’t mean that we cannot make ourselves unacceptable by identifying with a sin. We can’t be a thief or a liar and say it is OK, we love the Lord.
So I think we make ourselves clean when we sincerely take our sin to Christ, we are then cleansed. But each impure thought we have makes us need that cleansing again. When we accept Christ as our savior, that makes our born in sin person acceptable and holy once and for as long as we accept Christ, and that was by grace, not what we do.
When Christ completed His work of those three days after the cross, there was a great change in the world. But in the time frame of God, in the time frame of eternity, Christ was from the beginning. The whole sacrificial system was a shadow of that happening in our time. We can go to scripture from the beginning to get some details of the work that Christ did for us for a shadow reflects something solid and real. The blood of animals reflected the blood of Christ. One of the sacrifices was not because of sin, but because we are born in sin.
We have knowledge of good and evil, we have need of Christ’s saving blood beyond the sin that we commit. If we only did what was good always, we would still need Christ. Works will not make us acceptable, only Christ. We are saved by grace, not works.
That doesn’t mean that we cannot make ourselves unacceptable by identifying with a sin. We can’t be a thief or a liar and say it is OK, we love the Lord.
So I think we make ourselves clean when we sincerely take our sin to Christ, we are then cleansed. But each impure thought we have makes us need that cleansing again. When we accept Christ as our savior, that makes our born in sin person acceptable and holy once and for as long as we accept Christ, and that was by grace, not what we do.
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Just ask God to forgive you of any sin(s) you are not aware of and also ask Him to reveal any sin(s) that is in your life. Then ask Him to chastise you for it. And except it and be glad and thankful for it... Repent, and continue to live your life in Christ's victory and resurrection, not it defeat.
M
that's a great point about fellowship....we tend to reign in our sin when we are around our brothers and sisters. Spending too much time in the world is the cause of so much sin. No wonder Christians started monastries ( not that I'm advocating monostries)...mind you spending too much time around the saints has it's problems too.