You Will Know Them By Their Fruits.
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The world hates Jesus. My view on this isn't unbiblical. I've had scriptures underneath everything I posted. You can't just say something is unbiblical and that make it unbiblical. That requires Truth that casts out error. Otherwise it's unsportsmanlike.
I saw no scripture.
And I was not speaking about Jesus on the cross that was you twisting my intent .. so please do not mention sportsmanlike behaviour.
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Isaiah 48:4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;
Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
Silver being compared in Psalms to Word of God, to His truth. This here is an example of the Bible that God sends also affliction and suffering when people aren't obedient and listening to His Word. He sends terrible afflictions until people fall down on their knees and become malleable to Him. It would have been better for these people to have obeyed, than suffering to be brought against them.
There are of course some saints like St Stephen or the apostles. Who are godly and obey, but some were called to face severe affliction. I would be careful against exalting affliction for its own sake. Because the affliction also is sent to the reprobates, and spiritual discerning must always be applied.
We should all be ready to die for Christ if required.
But the cause of argument here is implication of some, that more suffering = more or better fruit.
By this suffering only = fruit logic, apostle Paul would be esteemed better or more worthy or more fruitful than apostle John and other saints who died natural deaths, because he endured more torture. It is new nature in Christ and their faith growing fruit within them that proclaimed their worth before God, and not the amount of torture and suffering.
@Benadam , I find you a respectable brother in Christ in spite of our denominational differences, and I believe that you would not assert something like that.
Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
Silver being compared in Psalms to Word of God, to His truth. This here is an example of the Bible that God sends also affliction and suffering when people aren't obedient and listening to His Word. He sends terrible afflictions until people fall down on their knees and become malleable to Him. It would have been better for these people to have obeyed, than suffering to be brought against them.
There are of course some saints like St Stephen or the apostles. Who are godly and obey, but some were called to face severe affliction. I would be careful against exalting affliction for its own sake. Because the affliction also is sent to the reprobates, and spiritual discerning must always be applied.
We should all be ready to die for Christ if required.
But the cause of argument here is implication of some, that more suffering = more or better fruit.
By this suffering only = fruit logic, apostle Paul would be esteemed better or more worthy or more fruitful than apostle John and other saints who died natural deaths, because he endured more torture. It is new nature in Christ and their faith growing fruit within them that proclaimed their worth before God, and not the amount of torture and suffering.
@Benadam , I find you a respectable brother in Christ in spite of our denominational differences, and I believe that you would not assert something like that.
I asked her awhile back to describe the following fruit in a believer....she skipped right over it because she has no contextual honesty.
David speaks of his salvation in the present tense and we see the following examples which destroys her narrative.
Good fruit -> Writes the psalms of praise used in temple worship, praises God, loves God and described as a man after God's own heart
Bad fruit-->Adultry, murder, numbers the people
Nature speaks and testifies to this truth as well!
David speaks of his salvation in the present tense and we see the following examples which destroys her narrative.
Good fruit -> Writes the psalms of praise used in temple worship, praises God, loves God and described as a man after God's own heart
Bad fruit-->Adultry, murder, numbers the people
Nature speaks and testifies to this truth as well!
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