Young earth Old earth

[mule]

I was wondering where you stand on this issue.
In Genesis we are not told how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before the fall. We know once Adam and Eve left the garden that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born. We aren't give a time line on the age of Adam when Abel was born or when Cain was born nor are we told their ages when Cain murdered Abel. I am assuming that the counting of age began the day they began life outside the garden.
The point of all that is the time line begins with the birth of Seth and can be followed from there, yet we are not given much information before that. ANYONE?

 

[kenisyes]

Philo of Alexandria states that everyone before Enosh is an archetype. The Jewish calendar begins with Enosh.

I think the real problem is that God is outside of time, and we are reading His word to earlier cultures. This is going to be terribly hard to explain, but throughout all ancient languages, there is no knowledge of the cumulative passage of time until about 1200BC. I read a book published in 1826 (on the gifts of I Cor. 12-14, would you believe) that stated that in 1826, there were still some people who did not process life by the passage of time. Basically, WE, not God, invented the timeline, and linguistics history proves it. Note Gen. 6:3 "the days of his years" for example. Here days is accomplishements, years is age of maturity; neither means chronological time passage. Sumerican King lists have kings living for 30,000 years, proving they had a "royal year" based on accomplishment. Early Hebrew, Sumerian, and Egyptian don't even have tenses as we know them for past, present and future.

Young earth, old earth is a different question. Whenever someone tells me the earth is x billions of years old, I tell them, "that's how long it would have taken YOU to do it". There is no scientific evidence, I repeat, no evidence that the earth is older than about 6000 years. Every "proof" they come up with has another possible explanation, and there's a good deal of evidence that the earth is only several thousand years old which they just ignore.

Some people say that this earth is the fifth or sixth try God attempted, after failing the other times and destroying previous attempts, by reducing them to "formlessness and darkness" Gen. 1:2, but I agree with Philo; God does not fail.

By the way, it took me a few years to learn to think without the cumulative passage of time, but it opened up a lot of tough passages in Scripture.

 

[mule]

Oh I absolutely believe we created time -- to count the days till our death.
God has no need for time He is eternal.
When we enter the kingdom we will not have time. We will not even have night. As I recall

 

[WolfInOxHide]

I personally believe they were teenagers. At the age right when growth is "mature", but before "aging" begins with even the first physical, mental or spiritual blemish. Because can't we assume that if they had not eaten, they would not have grown any older, i.e. "decay towards death"?
And what if aging happened much slower then due to the lesser degree of sin within and around them, increasing in pace as it got worse and worse?

If "counting the years" began either at their creation or at their "age" when they were kicked out, that would explain why we are at about 6000+teens years later and getting pretty darn close to the end.
It would also center the year 4000+teens on a teenaged and physically mature Y'Shua, who after His resurrection, being changed in appearance, appeared as an angelic young man who the tomb visitors (and most of us) did not recognize at first.

 

[kenisyes]

The ancient legend is that man gets to rule the earth for 6 thousand years, and then the 7th (sabbath) thousand is God's turn (the thousand year reign).

What we remember of history per millenium corresponds to the 5 stages of Piaget's development of consciousness, followed by the two extra stages of consciousness documented by Charles Tart in his studies of worldwide spiritual maturation. My theory is we rewrite history to match what we see in ourselves. Wolfinoxhide, that's why I think what you say happens that way.

 

[chesser]

Young earth, old earth is a different question. Whenever someone tells me the earth is x billions of years old, I tell them, "that's how long it would have taken YOU to do it". There is no scientific evidence, I repeat, no evidence that the earth is older than about 6000 years. Every "proof" they come up with has another possible explanation, and there's a good deal of evidence that the earth is only several thousand years old which they just ignore

I'm undecided on the issue, and even Iknow that's ignorant(unless you have doctorates in astronomy, biology, history and possibly some other stuff) in which case your opinion could matter.

 

[weakness]

Oh I absolutely believe we created time -- to count the days till our death.
God has no need for time He is eternal.
When we enter the kingdom we will not have time. We will not even have night. As I recall

God created the space /time continuum when he created the universe.Man has chosen several ways to :measure time and many different calendars.God said in Gen. that the sun and moon would be for days, months ,and years and seasons. Thank God for time , else we would not have time to learn of God and god would have not time to unfold his wondrous plan.

 

[weakness]

Oh I absolutely believe we created time -- to count the days till our death.
God has no need for time He is eternal.
When we enter the kingdom we will not have time. We will not even have night. As I recall

All things (including time) were made by him and for him and without him was not anything made that was made.apparently God did have need for time ,at least he thought so,for why else did he create it? Christ could not be crucified without time,God could not draw you to himself without time, and myriads of other important opportunities to fulfill Gods purposes.Men would never know the glorious greatness of God , and we could never become the sons of God. A man must be born again to enter the kingdom. How could that be if there were no space or time for us to be born into? once or twice.

 

[jimmydiggs]

It's been about 6000 years since the fall of man, roughly speaking.

 

[mule]

Jimmy,
Yes from the fall of man
but the earth was while Adam and Eve were in the garden
and we don't know how long they were in the garden.
We know nothing outside the garden until the fall.
And all we know is from outside the garden

 

[jimmydiggs]

Jimmy,
Yes from the fall of man
but the earth was while Adam and Eve were in the garden
and we don't know how long they were in the garden.
We know nothing outside the garden until the fall.
And all we know is from outside the garden

The first recorded birth occured outside of the Garden. Cain and Abal that is. You could have a few months at most in the garden, not billions of years.

 

[mule]

I am not suggesting post garden I am putting forth the idea while in the garden the earth WAS and we don't know how long Adam was in the garden -- could it be billions of years before the fall?

the garden is not separate from the earth it is a place on the earth.

Oh great movie idea the search for the garden of eden. flaming swords and all *_*

 

[weakness]

Philo of Alexandria states that everyone before Enosh is an archetype. The Jewish calendar begins with Enosh.

I think the real problem is that God is outside of time, and we are reading His word to earlier cultures. This is going to be terribly hard to explain, but throughout all ancient languages, there is no knowledge of the cumulative passage of time until about 1200BC. I read a book published in 1826 (on the gifts of I Cor. 12-14, would you believe) that stated that in 1826, there were still some people who did not process life by the passage of time. Basically, WE, not God, invented the timeline, and linguistics history proves it. Note Gen. 6:3 "the days of his years" for example. Here days is accomplishements, years is age of maturity; neither means chronological time passage. Sumerican King lists have kings living for 30,000 years, proving they had a "royal year" based on accomplishment. Early Hebrew, Sumerian, and Egyptian don't even have tenses as we know them for past, present and future.

Young earth, old earth is a different question. Whenever someone tells me the earth is x billions of years old, I tell them, "that's how long it would have taken YOU to do it". There is no scientific evidence, I repeat, no evidence that the earth is older than about 6000 years. Every "proof" they come up with has another possible explanation, and there's a good deal of evidence that the earth is only several thousand years old which they just ignore.

Some people say that this earth is the fifth or sixth try God attempted, after failing the other times and destroying previous attempts, by reducing them to "formlessness and darkness" Gen. 1:2, but I agree with Philo; God does not fail.

By the way, it took me a few years to learn to think without the cumulative passage of time, but it opened up a lot of tough passages in Scripture.

I' m sorry I just can't let this "they come up with " and "no evidence" stand unquestioned. I am a biologist , maybe that makes me one of "Them' .But I study plants or am a sort of botanist. Did you know that the oldest recorded tree alive today is 13,000 years old ? This is not estimated by using carbon dating, which you probably don't believe in. It is known by tree rings and the size of the root system. It is hard to miscount tree rings. I sure hope that you folk don't believe that the devil planted all the fossils here to mislead the church as some Christians around here do. I just wonder why instead of real edification ,your talking about Adam and Eve being teenagers to some how prove the age of things? this is getting pretty out there.May I suggest quit reading all the books that are used to make merchandise of you and seek the lord through the Holy Spirit . And set your mind on things above ,not on this earth. Better yet sell what you have and lay up treasure in heaven like Jesus said to the rich man who was trying to justify himself in his religious traditions.The grace and peace of Jesus be with you.

 

[chesser]

It's been about 6000 years since the fall of man, roughly speaking.

Both OEC and YEC Christians belive that, from your post I get the gist you don't really care about how old the earth is, am I correct?

 

[weakness]

Both OEC and YEC Christians believe that, from your post I get the gist you don't really care about how old the earth is, am I correct?

I guess its kinda hard to exactly know. But I know I am here right now and so is our savior. I hope to serve him acceptably ,in love and that I would here his voice . And by his grace obey him the same of which I have fallen short many times { love God . just to think that we could be called the sons of God and his children,and brothers is sometimes just past anything I could imagine Thank you Jesus / How glorious are your ways all honor be to you Please o lord let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable to you though your immeasurable sacrifice . God bless us through Christ. I do not Know what OEC and YEC mean please inform thanks.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

your talking about Adam and Eve being teenagers to some how prove the age of things?

For the record, I personally never said how old the earth was, or tried to prove anything. Just counting the recorded years or "days" since the fall.

I have no problem with 13000 year old trees, dinosaur, or even human fossils. I spend the majority of my time preoccupied with the current and future conditions.

 

[weakness]

For the record, I personally never said how old the earth was, or tried to prove anything. Just counting the recorded years or "days" since the fall.

I have no problem with 13000 year old trees, dinosaur, or even human fossils. I spend the majority of my time preoccupied with the current and future conditions.

I guess I have heard so many crazy thing concerning creation I over reacted ,,I'm sorry if I spoke in the flesh or not in love

 

[chesser]

I guess its kinda hard to exactly know. But I know I am here right now and so is our savior. I hope to serve him acceptably ,in love and that I would here his voice . And by his grace obey him the same of which I have fallen short many times { love God . just to think that we could be called the sons of God and his children,and brothers is sometimes just past anything I could imagine Thank you Jesus / How glorious are your ways all honor be to you Please o lord let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable to you though your immeasurable sacrifice . God bless us through Christ. I do not Know what OEC and YEC mean please inform thanks.

Old/young earth creationism

 

[jimmydiggs]

Both OEC and YEC Christians belive that, from your post I get the gist you don't really care about how old the earth is, am I correct?

The earth is approximately 6,000 years old. Closer to 6300 but that is still a rounded number.

Adam and Eve were not long in the Garden for they obeyed God's command to be fruitful and multiply. The first fruit of that were Cain and Abel. They were born after the fall, and thus Adam and Eve could not have been in the Garden much longer than 8 months. Also, to claim that they were in the Garden for millions of years (let alone billions) without producing off spring is to claim that Adam and Eve were disobeying God's command to produce children. Thus, sin would not have first entered with the tree, but rather with the lack of the womb's fruit. Any attempt to insert man's ideas into the bible butchers both.

 

[Abiding]

The earth is approximately 6,000 years old. Closer to 6300 but that is still a rounded number.

Adam and Eve were not long in the Garden for they obeyed God's command to be fruitful and multiply. The first fruit of that were Cain and Abel. They were born after the fall, and thus Adam and Eve could not have been in the Garden much longer than 8 months. Also, to claim that they were in the Garden for millions of years (let alone billions) without producing off spring is to claim that Adam and Eve were disobeying God's command to produce children. Thus, sin would not have first entered with the tree, but rather with the lack of the womb's fruit. Any attempt to insert man's ideas into the bible butchers both.

I came to 6,302...did you account for adams naming the animals jimmy?