"youve got mail"

[iamsoandso]

The Apostles and elders and brethren:

Greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria an Cilicia: Forasmuch as we have heard,that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words,subverting your souls,saying,be circumcised,and keep the law:to whom we gave no commandment:

It seemed good unto us,being assembled with one accord,to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have sent therefore Judas and Silas ,who shall also tell the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the holy Ghost,and to us,to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that ye abstain from meats offered to idols,and from blood,and from things strangled,and from fornication:from which if ye keep yourselves,ye shall do well. fare ye well.

 

[john832]

The Apostles and elders and brethren:

Greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria an Cilicia: Forasmuch as we have heard,that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words,subverting your souls,saying,be circumcised,and keep the law:to whom we gave no commandment:

It seemed good unto us,being assembled with one accord,to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have sent therefore Judas and Silas ,who shall also tell the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the holy Ghost,and to us,to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that ye abstain from meats offered to idols,and from blood,and from things strangled,and from fornication:from which if ye keep yourselves,ye shall do well. fare ye well.

And your point is?

 

[iamsoandso]

And your point is?

that Luke states to theophilus that they (the apostles,elders and brethren) had actually written a letter and sent it. Luke Quotes it word for word to theophilus. So I thought it would be good to post it that way just in the same wording as they back then would have read if they looked at the roll/letter scraped off the wax if it was sealed and read it from beginning to end and see what they (those church members at Antioch,Syria and Cilicia) would have taken it's meaning. who knows maybe it will help to read it,,thats why I posted only the contents of it(the letter they received in the mail) and nothing else in the o.p.

 

[chubbena]

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[iamsoandso]

makes you wonder where the letter went and why we don't have a copy of it(I think we do it's in acts 15),,Paul said in 2nd Timothy 4;13 ""the books,especially the parchments" (that is he ask him to bring them),and we know from chapter 16 onward Luke uses "we,us" and that before this point he used "they them" so he was among the group past this point so the letter from the apostles,elders and brethren from Jerusalem and so Luke had probably read it and the others Paul is asking for.

 

[iamsoandso]

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

thats from another letter,I was only referring to the letter Luke was reciting to Theophilus,thanks though

 

[chubbena]

Does one know why it's in the conversation but not in the letter?

 

[iamsoandso]

Does one know why it's in the conversation but not in the letter?

seems self evident from acts 15,5 why the letter was written.

 

[blue_ladybug]

re: you've got mail.... if it's another bill I have to pay, I dont want it!! Return to sender with address unknown!!

 

[2Thewaters]

You have mail back!

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?
God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Rom 3:31 Do we then
make void ( abolish, cease, destroy, do away, become of no effect, put away (down), vanish away, make void.)
the law
through faith? (fidelity)
God forbid: (no way)
yea,
we establish (stand up, to hold upr, abide by, continue the covenant, hold up, present, set up, stand by
the law.

 

[2Thewaters]

see your problem is you keep confusing circumcision with the ten commandments

circumcisions and the sacrifices are done away
that is what galations and romans is all about

but the ten commandments abide forever
that is what titus, peter 1 peter 2 peter 1 John.. 2 John. 3 John, Revelation, hebrews is all about

ever read those?

read 1 2 3 john that ought to clarify it for you.

here let me help

Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
1Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

[chubbena]

seems self evident from acts 15,5 why the letter was written.

Even more intriguing why Acts 15:21 was in the conversation but not on the letter.
Another question is, why would they read the letter?
Yet another question is, "that ye abstain from meats offered to idols,and from blood,and from things strangled,and from fornication" are the only commandments gentile believers have to obey?

 

[iamsoandso]

You have mail back!

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?
God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Rom 3:31 Do we then
make void ( abolish, cease, destroy, do away, become of no effect, put away (down), vanish away, make void.)
the law
through faith? (fidelity)
God forbid: (no way)
yea,
we establish (stand up, to hold upr, abide by, continue the covenant, hold up, present, set up, stand by
the law.

lol,,,"you have mail back",<-----"I see,lol",,I posted the letter from the apostles,elders and brethren to point out the fact that there is an actual letter Luke is referring to,sorry if the words written in it set's you on edge,,when I see the apostles,elders and brethren Ill give them your return letter. Until then please bear in mind that I did not write the letter to the Gentiles(I merely posted the content of it) because it,if we look at the time line and compare it to the other epistles we can see that it was written before all the others,actually one of the first epistles.

 

[iamsoandso]

Even more intriguing why Acts 15:21 was in the conversation but not on the letter.
Another question is, why would they read the letter?
Yet another question is, "that ye abstain from meats offered to idols,and from blood,and from things strangled,and from fornication" are the only commandments gentile believers have to obey?

and see we could speculate as to why they chose to leave it or many other things out of the letter to the gentiles,but whether we agree with it or not in the letter it says "it seemed good both to the Holy Ghost and to us" so who are we do argue with the Holy ghost or the apostles,elders and brethren? I think that we are so accustomed to debating in every other thread that we assume we are to in every thread,,as for me I cannot add to or take away from what was written in the letter.

 

[Hashe]

see your problem is you keep confusing circumcision with the ten commandments

circumcisions and the sacrifices are done away
that is what galations and romans is all about

but the ten commandments abide forever
that is what titus, peter 1 peter 2 peter 1 John.. 2 John. 3 John, Revelation, hebrews is all about

ever read those?

read 1 2 3 john that ought to clarify it for you.

here let me help

Sorry, but this is rubbish. Circumcision is part of the law, it is acceptance of the law. It is the acceptance of the covenant, which includes the law.
Now, there is a New Covenant (that is what the Second part of the bible is called) - which doesn't have 'circumcision' nor its laws! It has a new set of laws (love one another, love God)

 

[chubbena]

and see we could speculate as to why they chose to leave it or many other things out of the letter to the gentiles,but whether we agree with it or not in the letter it says "it seemed good both to the Holy Ghost and to us" so who are we do argue with the Holy ghost or the apostles,elders and brethren? I think that we are so accustomed to debating in every other thread that we assume we are to in every thread,,as for me I cannot add to or take away from what was written in the letter.

I thought to discuss this letter was the purpose of this thread.
Regarding the "NT" epistles I think not too many would disagree that to understand them we must have proper understanding of the background and the reason of writing behind them.
I believe the same applies to this letter.

 

[RedTent]

Sorry, but this is rubbish. Circumcision is part of the law, it is acceptance of the law. It is the acceptance of the covenant, which includes the law.
Now, there is a New Covenant (that is what the Second part of the bible is called) - which doesn't have 'circumcision' nor its laws! It has a new set of laws (love one another, love God)

The new covenant did NOT cancel the old covenant, it was a better covenant that made the old one start to become obsolete, it repeated all the old and improved all the old. It included the complete forgiveness Christ offers if we accept it's requirements.

Circumcision was preached by Paul. Not with the physical circumcision leading to the real one, but the Holy Spirit leading us to it. Paul never said that you may not be circumcised in flesh, only that you must let the HS lead you to real circumcision.

Rom 2:29 On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.

Also, the verses just before this one.

 

[iamsoandso]

I thought to discuss this letter was the purpose of this thread.
Regarding the "NT" epistles I think not too many would disagree that to understand them we must have proper understanding of the background and the reason of writing behind them.
I believe the same applies to this letter.

which epistle/letter do you think was written first the letter from the apostles,elders and brethren or the others?

 

[StoneThrower]

see your problem is you keep confusing circumcision with the ten commandments

circumcisions and the sacrifices are done away
that is what galations and romans is all about

but the ten commandments abide forever
that is what titus, peter 1 peter 2 peter 1 John.. 2 John. 3 John, Revelation, hebrews is all about

ever read those?

read 1 2 3 john that ought to clarify it for you.

here let me help

Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
1Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Actually if you want you can disregard everything in the Old Covenant unless its reiterated in the new. So if its not restated rest easy!

 

[iamsoandso]

The Apostles and elders and brethren:

Greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria an Cilicia: Forasmuch as we have heard,that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words,subverting your souls,saying,be circumcised,and keep the law:to whom we gave no commandment:

It seemed good unto us,being assembled with one accord,to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have sent therefore Judas and Silas ,who shall also tell the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the holy Ghost,and to us,to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that ye abstain from meats offered to idols,and from blood,and from things strangled,and from fornication:from which if ye keep yourselves,ye shall do well. fare ye well.

this all that the letter said,the thing we are compelled to do is think that it it should end,,,,"well but,,ect." but it doesn't and then we have to see that Luke who traveled with Paul is who Quoted it to Theophilus so seeing Paul taught Luke Paul also then agreed with it's content.