Apologetics and solid ground

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CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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#1
As I started traveling down the apologetic journey, my soul was tickled.


I could see something beautiful up ahead, could smell a fresh aroma, so…


I dove right in, I stubbornly took myself too quickly to the deep end. It is all so fascinating, so much to learn. I am excited because to have a better understanding, to be able to truly approach the word and my Lord with His sound reason in mind, requires prayer, patience and intention. However, It will take time, much humility, and also balance, not forcing it, not rushing it. Most of all, it dictates that I keep myself in the word.


How can that not be a good thing?


Learning is so much fun, and He offers so much of it. I know that intimacy with my Lord is a heart matter, but I believe loving Him with all my mind fits right in with learning more. Plus, being ready to answer why I have hope in Him calls me again to dig into the meat of His matter.


Again though, I must remain patient and balanced, as I have a tendency to get ahead of myself, causing frustration and restlessness. So I need to slow down and focus.


It makes me think of something a wise brother shared with me…


get your bearings, and learn good logic, and good christian philosophy, before you get bogged down in all kinds of odd, confusing, and sometimes aberrant views from really brilliant people. It's like jumping into a marshy swamp. You would say, "Look, I'm in the swamp and I found some beautiful flowers!" And I would say, "Yes, but look at your feet, you're SINKING!"


- That's biblical advice... keep yourself on solid ground.


I am tearing up because I am so excited to know my Lord more and more. Not in a prideful way...no I will never have Him and His truth all figured out. I am honored to love Him, as the simple woman that I am. He and His grace are enough right now, and always. It is just that getting to be with Him more delights my soul. I know you feel the same too, huh, brothers and sisters? Seeking Him is a pleasure and a privilege. He is so good. We are all so very blessed.


 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#3
I fell into apologetics a few years ago when I needed to defend my faith but only came across super Biblical. Which is good but they didn't believe the Bible and I had no philosophical arguments, no outside evidence, no scientific evidence and didn't even know how to make a argument.

So I became obsessed with learning, my faith grew tremendously, and now nothing takes me off guard. Every Christian should eventually go down this road once as you said they have a good Biblical worldview.
 

CharliRenee

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Nov 4, 2014
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#4
I fell into apologetics a few years ago when I needed to defend my faith but only came across super Biblical. Which is good but they didn't believe the Bible and I had no philosophical arguments, no outside evidence, no scientific evidence and didn't even know how to make a argument.

So I became obsessed with learning, my faith grew tremendously, and now nothing takes me off guard. Every Christian should eventually go down this road once as you said they have a good Biblical worldview.
You know, I am encouraged by your experience. I know that currently, and always will need much learning and growing.

I think as long as the authority is always the word of God, it makes sense to me.

I use to believe apologetics was merely a clever device to excuse arguement and squabble. [email protected] I also thought it meant humility, listening and consideration were exempt in this practice. I was in error. Well, it may be for some, but not necessarily so....

I found this post and it seems to be spot on... Screenshot_20190829-104658_Chrome.jpg it is NOT...

Screenshot_20190829-104742_Chrome.jpg
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,370
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#5
You know, I am encouraged by your experience. I know that currently, and always will need much learning and growing.

I think as long as the authority is always the word of God, it makes sense to me.

I use to believe apologetics was merely a clever device to excuse arguement and squabble. [email protected] I also thought it meant humility, listening and consideration were exempt in this practice. I was in error. Well, it may be for some, but not necessarily so....

I found this post and it seems to be spot on... View attachment 203464 it is NOT...

View attachment 203465
Very true. I'll share some of the leading arguments and apologetic teachers.



Here is some of the evidence off the top of my head.

The Kalam study, teleological, archeological, biological, History of Western philosophy, philosophical branches like ( Epistemology, metaphysics, ontology, logic, reason)
, historical or forensic evidence, manuscript textual criticism, early church fathers letters, secular sources, eye witnesses, amazing 360 degree life changes once hearing or seeing the truth, testimonials, prophecies fortold in the past and recorded historical events actually took place, moral law that is transcending, space,time, and matter came into existence during the big bang which means before the big bang there was no matter or natural relm. It took something from the supernatural relm that had to be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, intelligent. All points to a theistic God. The argument of Intelligent design. The argument from language and DNA.

Just from secular sources, manuscripts, fragments, and early church fathers letters brings even the scholar skeptics to admit our current Bible is atleast 98% accurate to the original sources.

Cold case detective J Warner Wallace who has been on tv a few times for solving really old cold cases decided to try and prove the Bible wrong by using forensic science and investigating the eye witness accounts. Which surprised him how accurate they came to any eye witness accounts he had came across many times and eventually the evidence led to accept Christ.

Christianity became true when the very real historical the Jesus called Christ was crucified and from eye witness and secular sources speak of this event happening. Then something crazy happened 3 days later that gave great courage to the scared and hiding disciples that they gave their lives for claiming Jesus had risen. Something put turned the middle east and Rome upside down and Christianity spread like wild fire. The early church creed almost sounded as if I dare you to investigate the still alive eye witnesses for yourselves.

The Bible has always been true and has had well than enough evidence for each generation who truthfully responds to it and goes where it actually leads.

I do not have enough faith to be an atheist

If you need help understanding anything I'll help as much as I can and here are some sources to at least get you started.

Sources:

The Kalam: An Overview & Defense

The Ontological Argument

Convince Me There’s A God: Fine-Tuning

Archeological Evidence - Evidences of the Bible

Is God Real? The Argument for God's Existence from the Appearance of Design in Biology | Cold Case Christianity

Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability

Early Church Fathers

Did Jesus Christ Really Exist? Proving Jesus Without the Bible

The Apostles Wrote the Gospels as Eyewitness Accounts | Cold Case Christianity

Bible prophecy from Isaiah 53:4-6

C.S. Lewis, the Moral Argument for God, and the Gospel - Paul Gould

1 Cor. 15:3-4 demonstrates a creed too early for legend to corrupt.

Is the New Testament Text Reliable?

Apologetic teachers:

Ravi Zacharias
Frank Turek
Josh McDowell
Shawn McDowell
Greg Koukl
Norman Geisler
John Carson Lennox
C S Lewis
J Warner Wallace
The guys from Wallbuilders
Billy and Franklin Graham's website
"Answers in Genesis. org" for a young earth perspective
Reason.org Hugh Ross from a Old Earth Perspective
American Family Radio or American Family Association

Just to name a few.
 

CharliRenee

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Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#6
Wow, so much to learn. Thanks for all these resources. It sounds like you have put in a lot of time in your studies. I think these are handy tools you have given here to slowly work my way through. I really appreciate your willingness to help others in this particular pursuit. Truly, thank you.

I just started a book titled reasonable faith by William Lane Craig.

Did the order you presented be what you suggest one go with when starting out?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,370
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#7
Wow, so much to learn. Thanks for all these resources. It sounds like you have put in a lot of time in your studies. I think these are handy tools you have given here to slowly work my way through. I really appreciate your willingness to help others in this particular pursuit. Truly, thank you.

I just started a book titled reasonable faith by William Lane Craig.

Did the order you presented be what you suggest one go with when starting out?
No problem! William Lane Craig is also really good.

Yes I got hooked a few years ago as I realized there was really good logical, Intelligent, and reasonable answers to all the questions of our modern society. I realized my young kids will be one day faced with all the questions and I wanted to be prepared.

But anyways there was no specific order. It's just the arguments I listed will help with certain questions. A book called Tactics is great for tying everything you learn together and to be able to put all that knowledge into the art of debate during evangelism. Basically the art of asking the right questions as Jesus was very skilled in.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,663
492
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#8
CharliRenee, I don't know you in person, but you bless me... Keep following Jesus...
And Roughsoul wow, that's a wealth of information... (y)

(rant. you have been forewarned)

The atheists pride themselves that they are logical yet even when proven wrong they usually don't want to believe. Rare among them have enough sincerity to admit the evidence for God is overwhelming, they just struggle believing.
They somehow believe historical books of different people to be accurate and unchanged, even if there's one sample, but the Bible which is the most backed up book in history with 20.000. early copies of the New Testament and Dead Sea Scrolls, is somehow being doubted.
Or take archaeological evidence on Sodom. The evidence about Sodom destruction is crazy.
Josephus wrote in first century, testifying about Sodom burnt by divine fire and the burnt aftermath still there to see.
Very pure sulphur/brimstone from site, which they took and tested in the lab.
Then, this sulphur partially melted the rocks and city walls so it embedded itself into them, since it was falling with such speed from heaven that it started burning into the stone immediately and in some cases sealed itself in. This shows it fell from heaven with a great impact... and also how it embedded into the site.
And all this is out there to this day, with the ashes!
It was not just Sodom and Gomorrah that were destroyed, but this rain of sulphur fell on several other cities in Sodom's vicinity (I think it was 5 cities I forgot it was long ago)
The distribution of the sulphur that was raining was clustered over the cities only in the most INTENT fashion.
(The rocks around the cities were not of different material or anything like that.)
But as you already know, atheists bless their hearts struggle a lot discerning random from nonrandom arrangements...
Soooo this atheist geologist to whom this was presented in the documentary played dumb and claimed it was a natural occurrence:rolleyes: It kind of made me boil... :rolleyes:
This was the moment when I stopped debating atheists (I used to debate them a lot especially about the Old Testament).
They have eyes but see not, have ears but hear not etc. I believe also they also have brains, but reason not.
Also oh they want miracle proof, but when miracles happen then oh it was coincidence (or plain ignore).
The only thing that might heal them is the POWER OF GOD.
I pray that Jesus enables me and us all to walk in the power. Give me one speck of Your power rather than a thousand arguments. Amen
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
2,370
203
63
#9
CharliRenee, I don't know you in person, but you bless me... Keep following Jesus...
And Roughsoul wow, that's a wealth of information... (y)

(rant. you have been forewarned)

The atheists pride themselves that they are logical yet even when proven wrong they usually don't want to believe. Rare among them have enough sincerity to admit the evidence for God is overwhelming, they just struggle believing.
They somehow believe historical books of different people to be accurate and unchanged, even if there's one sample, but the Bible which is the most backed up book in history with 20.000. early copies of the New Testament and Dead Sea Scrolls, is somehow being doubted.
Or take archaeological evidence on Sodom. The evidence about Sodom destruction is crazy.
Josephus wrote in first century, testifying about Sodom burnt by divine fire and the burnt aftermath still there to see.
Very pure sulphur/brimstone from site, which they took and tested in the lab.
Then, this sulphur partially melted the rocks and city walls so it embedded itself into them, since it was falling with such speed from heaven that it started burning into the stone immediately and in some cases sealed itself in. This shows it fell from heaven with a great impact... and also how it embedded into the site.
And all this is out there to this day, with the ashes!
It was not just Sodom and Gomorrah that were destroyed, but this rain of sulphur fell on several other cities in Sodom's vicinity (I think it was 5 cities I forgot it was long ago)
The distribution of the sulphur that was raining was clustered over the cities only in the most INTENT fashion.
(The rocks around the cities were not of different material or anything like that.)
But as you already know, atheists bless their hearts struggle a lot discerning random from nonrandom arrangements...
Soooo this atheist geologist to whom this was presented in the documentary played dumb and claimed it was a natural occurrence:rolleyes: It kind of made me boil... :rolleyes:
This was the moment when I stopped debating atheists (I used to debate them a lot especially about the Old Testament).
They have eyes but see not, have ears but hear not etc. I believe also they also have brains, but reason not.
Also oh they want miracle proof, but when miracles happen then oh it was coincidence (or plain ignore).
The only thing that might heal them is the POWER OF GOD.
I pray that Jesus enables me and us all to walk in the power. Give me one speck of Your power rather than a thousand arguments. Amen
Yes I remember they discovered sulphur and brimstone from that area. Tons of new evidence is found every year. To doubt God, the Bible or Jesus regarding all the evidence is in fact illogical and is living outside of reality.

Yes your also correct most atheists deny God not for intellectual reasons or emotional reasons but usually for selfish reasons. They love their lifestyle and dont want a judge or control on their life.

Even really good evidence for the first sentence in the Bible of creation which proves the very first and biggest miracle of all. For the universe to be created from the immaterial realm is by definition a supernatural act.

If that one miracle is true and all the evidence points to yes then every other miracle is atleast plausible.
 

CharliRenee

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Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#11
This is so cool. I also appreciated...
The only thing that might heal them is the POWER OF GOD.
I pray that Jesus enables me and us all to walk in the power. Give me one speck of Your power rather than a thousand arguments. Amen

I agree about arguements, especially futile and healthy ones. I do learn a thing or two with reasonable debates. Two or more people presenting why they believe what they believe, but humble and ready to listen to the other, can be useful, can get somewhere. However, I think it a colossal waste of time and even destructive if it gets nowhere, if it is hurtful, filled with arrogance.

Reasoning together, with God in mind or at the center, should be edifying to all participants.

It is you who blesses me and others.

I love evidence like Sodom and Gomorrah and these Screenshot_20190831-075151_Google.jpg Screenshot_20190831-075230_Google.jpg

The Laminin protien that is responsible for binding everything together in the shape of a cross. The holy ghost orchid.

We don't need these signs, we live by faith but it does prove this...

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20 ESV

I also so enjoy finding harmony amongst all the scriptures.