's' no such thing as human freewill

Yo, Evmur. Freewill , is mentioned in the Old Testament 18 times according to Strongs Concordance. In the context of the above definition. Namely, “made or done freely or of one’s own accord : voluntary . So if you have another definition ..
that needs to be made clear. Do you mean “mans will is in bondage” so it is not free as Luther asserted or what ? What do you mean ? "There is no such thing as freewill” ? What sayest thou ?

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of freewill
(Entry 1 of 2)
: VOLUNTARY, SPONTANEOUS

free will
noun
Definition of free will (Entry 2 of 2)
1: voluntary choice or decisionI do this of my own free will
2: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

Deu_30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Jos_24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Isa_65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Well in that case God would chose absolutely every human being. Since He wants ALL MEN to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. But God does NOT choose some for salvation and others for damnation. That would violate His character as well as His Gospel. To obey or disobey the Gospel is a choice.

The problem is in defining free will..............

Tell me when God revoked man's free will? It was given to man in Eden. Adam made the worst possible decision. However, if man has no free will, how can he be held responsible for his actions? He is free to choose within the limits imposed on him by who he is.

You could say that God is not entirely free. After all, we are told cannot lie. Can God sin? Is it a choice for God? Never! God is by nature righteous. So that is a limitation on God's will.

A person in prison has choices. He can serve his sentence without fuss and so maybe get a reduction in sentence. Or he may keep on offending and extend his stay. I would say that is free will, even though his options are limited.

Unbelievers are captive, bound to sin and Satan and dead to God. I wonder how many people are tempted to steal but resist the temptation? I wonder how many would like to kill an enemy but choose not to? That does not mean that the person is righteous, because even the best we do is filthy rags to God. It does mean that man has still the ability to choose.

Hi, thanks

Man was created FREE, he was free to be all that God had created him for. In regard to man, God acts sovereignly first THEN He gets our amen, our agreement. It is very true that God did not force Himself upon Adam even though He knew that He was Adam life, not just the Source and Creator of it but the Sustainer of his life and happiness but for the sake of love Adam had to also choose God and choose everything God had created for Him.

God has the right to be a tyrant but He is not a tyrant.

Adam [and we in him] chose death over life
bondage over freedom
rebellion over sonship

Adam had that choice, we do not have that choice although whether folk accept it or not we did choose in Adam, we can be sure that if we had been there we would have done the same as Adam.

.... Adam was acting under the deception that he would not die i.e. that he had freewill, that he could do this thing and not face the consequences.

The doctrine of human freewill IS that deception.

God rejects nobody, man rejects God.

God desires for all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth but He knows that not all men desire to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

Choice is not freewill.

The options are God's, we don't make the options, we have no options of our own. Freewill would say "ok God I will continue in my rebellion against you but I shall live and not die" this is what men want, it is what the world is working on, it is the mystery of iniquity. How to overcome death and remain sinful. Thank God we do not have freewill.

We can't even choose to not choose, we must choose ... Choice is not freewill.

Of course human choices are determined by prior causes. The options put before humans determine the choice.

Well it depends on what takes yer fancy I suppose, one may like to steal another revel in lies others still in deceit in love ... some folks like to kill. But all are sinners.

Choice is not freewill. I refer you to previous posts.

I only see 3 - 4 all in relation to freewill offerings. None in the NT.

In the New Testament we are described as a royal priesthood “ to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ “ one of these spiritual sacrifices would be the sacrifice of praise. Another would be “ I will that men pray everywhere , lifting up holy hands.” The lifting up of holy hands could be considered a spiritual sacrifice that a new testament priest would offer. I think I am beginning through your repiies to understand what you may be saying by there is no such thing as freewill . Could it be the two options a lost soul has ? namely , it’s JESUS OR LOST. If that is your definition of there is no such thing as freewill but to have these two options , then I would agree partially in concept. But it is your call to respond to the Holy Spirit and not harden your heart to the point where The Lord gives you over to what you want. Namely your freewill. Nuk Nuk Nuk

Now you're being aggressive

We are set FREE by Christ ... but you say you were already free. That [inadvertedly] is a slight upon our Lords sacrifice to set us free.

All are sinners, yes. People still get to choose how they will behave. One of my neighbours has been trying to get his marriage restored for 8 years. He's an unbeliever but believes marriage to be sacred. Some Christians (or so they say) think it's OK to walk away from a marriage because it no longer suits them. That is not grounds for divorce according to my Bible.

Adam was not deceived. Eve was deceived. Adam chose Satan's offer and rejected God's warning. I can't prove it, but I believe there was a lot more to Satan's temptation than is recorded in the Bible. You will remember that Satan showed Lord Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and said that Lord Jesus could have them. I believe that Satan gave Adam a glimpse of what could be his if he chose Satan's way.

Satan and God are after the same thing. And that is the cooperation of man's will. Satan uses any and every method. Bribery, coercion, lies, deception, appeal to ego, anything goes. God is righteous and works entirely righteously with man. Man still gets to choose.

Often Satan brings himself undone. He promises the world, but that is not what satisfies the heart of fallen man. There is a space that is reserved for God in the human heart and only God can fill the void. The epitaph on humanity's headstone will read, "He wanted more". God uses this longing to draw people to Himself. Some accept God's offer of life. Others reject it. The cost is too high for them.

"Free" will is the issue. God cannot lie. (Numbers 23:19, Hebrews 6:18). So He is not free in that sense. Who would say that God has not free will?

My intent was not to be aggressive but to be myself and lighten up to let you know I am being real. I am glad you understood my nuk nuK nut as belonging to Curly Joe. It was a signature me comment. I thought about taking it down after I made my reply but having only 5 minutes to edit my time lapsed . It was typical me , proud of myself for holding on to the truth and standing up for it . It was meant to be as coming from me not you so give me the 70 times seven on that one Please, I even left out the woof, woof and the finger popping. Not meant to be aggressive at all Your response was I suppose typical . Evmur. You create a post with an outlandish claim . Which soon reveals the politically correct Calvinist view I simply am not on this website to dive into the kelp bed of Reformist Theology. Like kelp it is slippery and tricky. All of sudden all the elements of Reformist Theology converge to become a rather complex template or overlay of man's interpretation of scripture. Anything without that template is routinely , I say routinely rejected out of hand. So I gave it my best shot and now I am apologizing for being aggressive ? Of all the Reformists I have met on this site you Evmur appear to be the most mature and open for discussion but typically everything I mentioned disappeared into the black hole of the previous context and has now resurfaced as a discussion of when , where and how Christ sets us free. I am going to allow you get to some point because what we previously were discussing and was not commented on was not replied to . What exactly are we discussing in the context of this post ? It has already become blurred.

The conviction of sin is sufficient to press any man into obedience if we also see that Christ died to take our sin away. Consequently, the conviction of sin produces obedience.

If any here are saved and have no conviction of sin then how was that possible? What power wrought the means to choose Christ crucified for sin and raised for our justification if not the conviction of sin and the gift of faith?

So what choice then is there if not the power of God and the gift of faith by grace to flee from sin and death - by choosing Christ? Yet how easily we forget that first we had to receive the power to cry out - the conviction of sin. Free will is a myth. The power to make a godly choice is predicated on God first choosing us. Otherwise how do we explain that so many refuse him when they have heard the gospel?

Choosing Christ is obeying God and refusing Christ is disobedience. It is our wretched condition that separates us from that true understanding when we were in sin and death. Now that we have life are we to say that our obedience is also predicated on our own power to choose? If it is then we will also arrive at the same place countless others have arrived at and make a boast of Christ and cause unfathomable numbers of others to stumble seeing our hypocrisy.

I don’t have a problem with any of what you have said. With the exception of freewill is a myth. Freewill is in the bible 18 times specifically according to Strongs concordance. The Bible is not a myth. There seems to be a lack of transparency in what are talking about specifically when it comes to discussing freewill. As far as agreement with the above for a non-Calvinist as myself it seems to be accurate but is often a segway into the 5 points of Calvinism.

You are "proud of yourself [hmmm] for holding on to the truth and standing up for it" ... ... me you say am stubborn, refusing to acknowledge "the truth"

A hallmark of false doctrine is to repeat it endlessly until people are thoroughly brainwashed like they do with evolution, you cannot read a work of science or nature without the "fact" of evolution being rammed forcefully down your throat. Folks laugh at you or think you an intellectually challenged person if you deny evolution.

The doctrine of human freewill is the same. It is in every tract and book, every sermon or theological work [apart from those of us who pertain to the free sovereign grace brigade] christians deride it, scoff, treat us either dishonest or fools.

Yet there is not so much as a scrap of doctrine in the NT that speaks of human freewill. Paul says we were slaves to sin, in bondage to the elemental spirits [demons] of the universe.

What part of slavery or bondage can be interpreted as freewill?

The doctrine of human freewill is a beach head, a foothold, territory which the devil has gotten into the church, having got his beach head he does what any smart general does, he uses it as base to operate from and he seeks to expand deeper, take more territory.

The doctrine of salvation by good works or by obedience to the law are direct derivitives of freewill doctrines, and from this doctrine comes probation, the teaching that salvation is dependent upon us maintaining good works throughout life along with strict obedience to the law and the performance of spiritual exercises and duties [long prayers and fast etc] they all come from the doctrine of human freewill. Many christians fight against these children doctrine but they still hold on and cherish the parent doctrine.

It has been said that nobody is an arminian when they pray ... we don't boast to God. When we are first saved we lay aside our supposed freewill and surrender to the will of God. Actually He totally defeats and subjugates our will to His own ... like He did with the prodigal son or with Paul on the Damascus Rd.

It is only after we are saved that we learn the language of human freewill. It is backsliding. We are going back to "they have turned every one to his own way" and where does it lead? back into bondage. This is the sad condition of the western church. Everyone following the human will instead of seeking out and doing God's will.

Now I am not bitter in my criticism, still we are the holy church. I know God can revive the grace doctrines at any time. In fact He is doing so.

Adam was free to choose the path of disobedience, we are not. He sold the whole race of us into bondage for we were in Adam, we were part of that rush of blood when he sinned. Be sure if you or I were in his place we would have done the same thing.

But if people say they have freewill they are denying that they have been deceived.

Yes I am quite certain Satan showed him all those things.

God cannot lie only by His own choice. .... but we see that God put a lying spirit in the mouths of the false prophets at Ahab's court.