's' no such thing as human freewill

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Nov 23, 2021
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You are "proud of yourself [hmmm] for holding on to the truth and standing up for it" ... ... me you say am stubborn, refusing to acknowledge "the truth"

A hallmark of false doctrine is to repeat it endlessly until people are thoroughly brainwashed like they do with evolution, you cannot read a work of science or nature without the "fact" of evolution being rammed forcefully down your throat. Folks laugh at you or think you an intellectually challenged person if you deny evolution.

The doctrine of human freewill is the same. It is in every tract and book, every sermon or theological work [apart from those of us who pertain to the free sovereign grace brigade] christians deride it, scoff, treat us either dishonest or fools.

Yet there is not so much as a scrap of doctrine in the NT that speaks of human freewill. Paul says we were slaves to sin, in bondage to the elemental spirits [demons] of the universe.

What part of slavery or bondage can be interpreted as freewill?

The doctrine of human freewill is a beach head, a foothold, territory which the devil has gotten into the church, having got his beach head he does what any smart general does, he uses it as base to operate from and he seeks to expand deeper, take more territory.

The doctrine of salvation by good works or by obedience to the law are direct derivitives of freewill doctrines, and from this doctrine comes probation, the teaching that salvation is dependent upon us maintaining good works throughout life along with strict obedience to the law and the performance of spiritual exercises and duties [long prayers and fast etc] they all come from the doctrine of human freewill. Many christians fight against these children doctrine but they still hold on and cherish the parent doctrine.

It has been said that nobody is an arminian when they pray ... we don't boast to God. When we are first saved we lay aside our supposed freewill and surrender to the will of God. Actually He totally defeats and subjugates our will to His own ... like He did with the prodigal son or with Paul on the Damascus Rd.

It is only after we are saved that we learn the language of human freewill. It is backsliding. We are going back to "they have turned every one to his own way" and where does it lead? back into bondage. This is the sad condition of the western church. Everyone following the human will instead of seeking out and doing God's will.

Now I am not bitter in my criticism, still we are the holy church. I know God can revive the grace doctrines at any time. In fact He is doing so.
Please refer to the post number where I say you are stubborn and refusing to acknowledge the truth. So we can all read it . As far as the doctrine of freewill . There is no doctrine of freewill. It is a theologians straw man to burn down as a counter to the belief that depravity does not equal inability to respond to God. There is no doctrine of freewill. It is a given . The whole counsel of God is a revelation in scripture God never says , you can’t repent . Inability does not equal depravity and visa versa. Being a slave of the devil and dead in trespasses and sins does not remove you from making choices. Repent and Believe the Gospel. Then you can receive the gift of righteousness. I can’t understand for you.
 

Evmur

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Please refer to the post number where I say you are stubborn and refusing to acknowledge the truth. So we can all read it . As far as the doctrine of freewill . There is no doctrine of freewill. It is a theologians straw man to burn down as a counter to the belief that depravity does not equal inability to respond to God. There is no doctrine of freewill. It is a given . The whole counsel of God is a revelation in scripture God never says , you can’t repent . Inability does not equal depravity and visa versa. Being a slave of the devil and dead in trespasses and sins does not remove you from making choices. Repent and Believe the Gospel. Then you can receive the gift of righteousness. I can’t understand for you.
You really must stop reading Calvin, I have never read him.

John 8. 43 [Jesus to the Pharisees]
Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My words
ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the start and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie he speaketh of his own for he is a liar and the father of it.
And because I yell you the truth ye believe Me not.
Which of you convicteth Me of sin and if I speak the truth why do ye not believe Me? He that is of God heareth God's word, ye therefore hear them not for ye are not of God.

Jesus makes it plain here why these people were quite unable to repent.
 

Evmur

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Yes that is how we are saved. None of this describes how we came to believe ... did you have some good thing dwelling in you, did you have the virtue of faith? or was it imparted to you with the gospel message?

When you start to say it was your choice, your freewill etc you are starting to slide backwards. Confess that Jesus is Lord, but if you say have freewill you are kind of lord yourself.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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You really must stop reading Calvin, I have never read him.

John 8. 43 [Jesus to the Pharisees]
Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My words
ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the start and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie he speaketh of his own for he is a liar and the father of it.
And because I yell you the truth ye believe Me not.
Which of you convicteth Me of sin and if I speak the truth why do ye not believe Me? He that is of God heareth God's word, ye therefore hear them not for ye are not of God.

Jesus makes it plain here why these people were quite unable to repent.
Yes that is how we are saved. None of this describes how we came to believe ... did you have some good thing dwelling in you, did you have the virtue of faith? or was it imparted to you with the gospel message?

When you start to say it was your choice, your freewill etc you are starting to slide backwards. Confess that Jesus is Lord, but if you say have freewill you are kind of lord yourself.
Never began reading Calvin . Watched a church split over it . Been Innudated with Calvinist doctrines though . Like yours No freewill . Cause you can't repent. Hear me sir. The gospel is the power of God to Salvation , The Holy Spirts ministry is to convince you of sin , righteousness and judgement to reveal God to you and your alienation from Him not you only but me and everyone else. I don't deny Jesus said that. What I do deny is that they did not have a choice in the matter.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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Yes that is how we are saved. None of this describes how we came to believe ... did you have some good thing dwelling in you, did you have the virtue of faith? or was it imparted to you with the gospel message?

When you start to say it was your choice, your freewill etc you are starting to slide backwards. Confess that Jesus is Lord, but if you say have freewill you are kind of lord yourself.
Here is how we came to believe. The Holy Spirit . in John 16 has a three-fold ministry. Here is How I came to believe. I watched the movie the Exorcist in 1974 , I went to a Bible store and bought a new testament . I read it for awhile . When I hit I am the vine , you are the branches . The Lord opened my eyes to Him as God, "never man spake like this man" at the same time revelation that Jesus rose from the dead. and a severe conviction in supernatural speed of my sins from youth until that moment. Faith comes by hearing and Hearing by the Word of God. That is when I received righteousness and justification not before God was there to help me and save me . There was no coercion. For we preach not ourselves but Jesus as Lord and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake. Never lost my freewill . You said I never had it .
 

Evmur

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Never began reading Calvin . Watched a church split over it . Been Innudated with Calvinist doctrines though . Like yours No freewill . Cause you can't repent. Hear me sir. The gospel is the power of God to Salvation , The Holy Spirts ministry is to convince you of sin , righteousness and judgement to reveal God to you and your alienation from Him not you only but me and everyone else. I don't deny Jesus said that. What I do deny is that they did not have a choice in the matter.
They were the devil's children ... but you are denying Jesu's word. In another place He said God had closed their eyes lest they should see and stopped their ears lest they should hear and turn to Him and be healed.

It is important here to note that He was speaking to a particular bunch of people. The religious rulers of the people. It is a mistake to apply it to everybody. Remember Paul heard Stephen preach and probably witnessed the miracles he did and rejected it all.
 

Evmur

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Here is how we came to believe. The Holy Spirit . in John 16 has a three-fold ministry. Here is How I came to believe. I watched the movie the Exorcist in 1974 , I went to a Bible store and bought a new testament . I read it for awhile . When I hit I am the vine , you are the branches . The Lord opened my eyes to Him as God, "never man spake like this man" at the same time revelation that Jesus rose from the dead. and a severe conviction in supernatural speed of my sins from youth until that moment. Faith comes by hearing and Hearing by the Word of God. That is when I received righteousness and justification not before God was there to help me and save me . There was no coercion. For we preach not ourselves but Jesus as Lord and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake. Never lost my freewill . You said I never had it .
That is what I said, nobody is an arminian before God. It was ALL God.
 

Gideon300

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Adam was free to choose the path of disobedience, we are not. He sold the whole race of us into bondage for we were in Adam, we were part of that rush of blood when he sinned. Be sure if you or I were in his place we would have done the same thing.

But if people say they have freewill they are denying that they have been deceived.

Yes I am quite certain Satan showed him all those things.

God cannot lie only by His own choice. .... but we see that God put a lying spirit in the mouths of the false prophets at Ahab's court.
Wrong. If God lied, He would cease to be God. The Word says that God cannot lie, not that He chooses not to lie. He put a lying spirit into the false prophets exactly because He cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
 

jb

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Hi ... Isaiah 53 vs 6
ALL we [what was there no - one having "freewill" who was able to decide differently from every other human being?]
like sheep [I have seen sheep who got lost but I never saw one with freewill]
have gone astray [astray for a sheep means disaster ... as does]
we have turned every man to his own way [but our way does not lead to freedom but to bondage, soon we are caught up in thorns and thistles, we are alone and afraid, we hear the wolf coming, terror is on every side, we are miserable and distressed, we don't know what to do ... then Jesus comes to save us, at first we think it is a ghost and try to flee, but He is to fast for us and catches us]
and the Lord have laid on Him the iniquity of us all [.... Did He come and ask you? did He curtsy and beg your permission? this all happened thousands of years before you were born ... before you committed those sins God laid them upon His Son and He died under YOUR sins ... how can you possibly say it was done according to your "freewill"?

How can you even think such a thing.?
You have plenty of "wordy" (supposed) explanations, but no truth in them!

God created man with freewill...period!
 

Gardenias

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If what Evmur says is true,which it is NOT,as proven in scripture, then ALL are doomed to LOF.

If only the" elect" chosen by God are going then you are right in that makes God a liar.

If we can not CHOOSE who we will serve,why creation. Even the devil created by God living in heaven CHOSE to rebell against God.

People can hold tightly to any junk they've been taught, such as you arent given an option, God is a merciful judge. Let us pray they are truly saved.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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Where did God give man this freewill "I give unto you freewill" the term freewill appears but 2 or 3 times in the whole scripture and in each case is linked to giving of offerings, God does not generally demand back gifts which He has given.

God says obey Me and live, if you disobey you will die, if you sin you will die. This is through all the scriptures, that is not freewill.
Yes you die without God and God wants you to prosper and be in health.
That is covenant relationship you do your part He does His . God want's a people who obey him. How can you obey or disobey him ? By being yourself a being created with a freewill. The Spirit of God opens your eyes , He may have created you , He may have initiated your salvation .Jesus sets you free, but not until you believe. Faith is the prerequesite of salvation , faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. No faith , no obedience of faith no being set free. You must respond to the work of the Holy Spirit to be set free. You can respond that is freewill , that is no myth. That is the prerequisite of salvation. God does not need theologians to give Him glory by declaring If God doesn't do everything then man is saving himself and God is not Glorified. Covenant, Covenant , Covenenat if , if , if , if Then. You must respond . You can respond . Or you make God as someone telling someone to do something impossible. God desired a people who love him from the heart Knows the difference between not having a choice and having a choice. He went with freewill, All things work together for good to those who love God to create a people in His own image. Yes Jesus sets you free , but there is no deliverance no justification no imputation of righteousness no application of Christs finished work on the cross without faith. You hear God and believe Him Trust. In spirit and truth . Bingo. Otherwise your choice by rejection is by default no benefit of the Work of Christ . "I will not justify the wicked. "
 

Evmur

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You have plenty of "wordy" (supposed) explanations, but no truth in them!

God created man with freewill...period!
God created Adam with the ability to choose life or death , we were in Adam. Adam used his ability [under deception] to choose to rebel against God and we chose in him. He sold his birthright for a pottage. He sold the human race into bondage.

... no more choice. All the supposed freewill does not stop us from sinning for we are sinners, no supposed freewill can stop us from dying. These two things bind our wills.

Jesus has come to rescue us. We are born again not by the will of man nor by the will of the flesh but by the will of God.

.... but you say it was your will.
 

Evmur

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Yes you die without God and God wants you to prosper and be in health.
That is covenant relationship you do your part He does His . God want's a people who obey him. How can you obey or disobey him ? By being yourself a being created with a freewill. The Spirit of God opens your eyes , He may have created you , He may have initiated your salvation .Jesus sets you free, but not until you believe. Faith is the prerequesite of salvation , faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. No faith , no obedience of faith no being set free. You must respond to the work of the Holy Spirit to be set free. You can respond that is freewill , that is no myth. That is the prerequisite of salvation. God does not need theologians to give Him glory by declaring If God doesn't do everything then man is saving himself and God is not Glorified. Covenant, Covenant , Covenenat if , if , if , if Then. You must respond . You can respond . Or you make God as someone telling someone to do something impossible. God desired a people who love him from the heart Knows the difference between not having a choice and having a choice. He went with freewill, All things work together for good to those who love God to create a people in His own image. Yes Jesus sets you free , but there is no deliverance no justification no imputation of righteousness no application of Christs finished work on the cross without faith. You hear God and believe Him Trust. In spirit and truth . Bingo. Otherwise your choice by rejection is by default no benefit of the Work of Christ . "I will not justify the wicked. "
a mish mash of contradiction here bro.

We must do this, we must do that, we must obey, we must respond ... we are free but we must respond to the Holy Spirit.

Paul says there is no good thing dwelling in us, no virtue. Again he says when we are in the flesh we cannot receive or even comprehend the things of God. Yet you have found faith.

It is clear to me from your own testimony that this faith was imparted to you when you heard the gospel, God put faith in your heart and you believed. It was a gift.

Jesus said the same thing, He said "unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ... " The new birth comes first.

God willed IN YOU to do of His good pleasure.
 

Evmur

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John 8:36 + Romans 8:2
:)
IF

If the Son shall set you free you shall be free indeed ... Jesus has set us FREE, praise the Lord, all the glory is His.

... let us not say now that we were already free.
 

Evmur

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If what Evmur says is true,which it is NOT,as proven in scripture, then ALL are doomed to LOF.

If only the" elect" chosen by God are going then you are right in that makes God a liar.

If we can not CHOOSE who we will serve,why creation. Even the devil created by God living in heaven CHOSE to rebell against God.

People can hold tightly to any junk they've been taught, such as you arent given an option, God is a merciful judge. Let us pray they are truly saved.
Now you do believe in eternal punishment don't you, so if I ask you will they deserve it those who are punished? you must surely say yes, alas, they deserved it.

Why do you think God is being evil therefore in witholding or hiding the gospel from the understanding of people who He foreknew would reject it?

You all say in order to be saved one must hear the gospel, believe the gospel and choose to repent and receive Christ ... that is the freewill gospel.

.... there have been BILLIONS times more people who have lived and died and never heard the gospel than those who have heard the gospel. You have nothing for them.

Only the free sovereign grace gospel holds out hope for every creature. I believe in a much WIDER MERCY than evangelicals generally preach . To the human sight it looks impossible but the things which are impossible with man are possible with God.

But you can't get on to even speaking about the WIDER MERCY because folks are caught on this snag of freewill.

Let God pour out His Spirit according to HIS WILL, upon whom HE WILL and you will see the multitudes who will be saved.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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a mish mash of contradiction here bro.

We must do this, we must do that, we must obey, we must respond ... we are free but we must respond to the Holy Spirit.

Paul says there is no good thing dwelling in us, no virtue. Again he says when we are in the flesh we cannot receive or even comprehend the things of God. Yet you have found faith.

It is clear to me from your own testimony that this faith was imparted to you when you heard the gospel, God put faith in your heart and you believed. It was a gift.

Jesus said the same thing, He said "unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ... " The new birth comes first.

God willed IN YOU to do of His good pleasure.
OK Evmur. Here is something that is no contradiction. God must see the Blood. You must put it on the door. Else no fellowship with the HOlY ONE
 

Evmur

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OK Evmur. Here is something that is no contradiction. God must see the Blood. You must put it on the door.
But it is not your will is it, it is God's will. To put the blood on the door lintels was God's will.