Summary of Bible references on the Rapture

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Who is THE THEM ? When was This applied to Whom ? Was That for The Kingdom of Heaven, or The Kingdom Of God ?
AND, Which of These Two Kingdoms are for Whom ?

DeepSeeker
I believe that Jesus is the incarnated word of God. I believe when we search the scriptures the goal is to see Jesus, because the scriptures testify of Jesus. Chuck Missler described the Bible as containing a holographic image of God. When you look at the image as a 2d image it is fuzzy. But if you shine a light through it that was identical to the light that made the image, then you will see the 3d image. He said storing information in this format resists anyone trying to distort it.

In summary, a combination of physical tamper-evident features, sophisticated manufacturing processes, and complex optical and visual security elements makes holographic images a robust defense against tampering and counterfeiting. Any attempt to interfere with the hologram will likely leave visible signs of damage, making it immediately apparent that the product or document has been tampered with.

There is no doubt that many of the things in the Bible are directly tied to historical events and those events help to define and understand the word.

However, 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Therefore, when the Bible says "Let them be confounded and turned back that hate Zion". It is applicable to us, it is profitable for us. That word is part of the fiber of Jesus Christ and so when Jesus said

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If you are in Jesus Christ and you ask this, you are praying according to His will. The fact that this was a prayer of David or a prayer of Hezekiah or others, and that when they prayed the Lord answered, that doesn't mean the prayer is no longer God's will, it means that you have that much greater assurance that the Lord will answer. He did it before, He'll do it again.

We are told clearly that everything in the Old Testament is written for our benefit.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The Bible reveals a living God, one that is present and active.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

I liken prophecy to the Mandlebrot set. You can look at some event in the Old Testament and see it again in the New Testament. Man fell according to Rabbinical teaching on the 9th of Av. Later the spies returned with the bad report on the 9th of Av causing the Jews to be cursed for a full 40 years (they had already spent two of those forty in the wilderness, so they had to continue wandering for another 38 years). Both Holy Temples were destroyed on the 9th of Av. The Jews lost the Battle of Betar in 133 AD on the 9th of Av, The Romans ploughed the temple mount on the 9th of Av, the Jews were expelled from England on the 9th of Av, the Jews were banished from Spain on the 9th of Av, and World War 1 began on the 9th of Av.

Everything in the Old Testament was done for our example, and again, I liken that to a Mandlebrot set.
 
May 20, 2025
191
18
18
I believe that Jesus is the incarnated word of God. I believe when we search the scriptures the goal is to see Jesus, because the scriptures testify of Jesus. Chuck Missler described the Bible as containing a holographic image of God. When you look at the image as a 2d image it is fuzzy. But if you shine a light through it that was identical to the light that made the image, then you will see the 3d image. He said storing information in this format resists anyone trying to distort it.

In summary, a combination of physical tamper-evident features, sophisticated manufacturing processes, and complex optical and visual security elements makes holographic images a robust defense against tampering and counterfeiting. Any attempt to interfere with the hologram will likely leave visible signs of damage, making it immediately apparent that the product or document has been tampered with.

There is no doubt that many of the things in the Bible are directly tied to historical events and those events help to define and understand the word.

However, 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Therefore, when the Bible says "Let them be confounded and turned back that hate Zion". It is applicable to us, it is profitable for us. That word is part of the fiber of Jesus Christ and so when Jesus said

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If you are in Jesus Christ and you ask this, you are praying according to His will. The fact that this was a prayer of David or a prayer of Hezekiah or others, and that when they prayed the Lord answered, that doesn't mean the prayer is no longer God's will, it means that you have that much greater assurance that the Lord will answer. He did it before, He'll do it again.

We are told clearly that everything in the Old Testament is written for our benefit.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The Bible reveals a living God, one that is present and active.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
I appreciate Your comments. However, I see what was written in that scripture was written to The Gentiles at that Time.
Does that mean It is of no value Today ? Absolutely not!
It does mean; however, that It was written TO THEM DIRECTLY. IF I write A Letter to My friend, and much later someone find It. Then, after finding It, They say: "I like that, I will use it also for Myself. This is unfortunately what has taken place with The Bible scriptures many times.
When writing a letter, and I address It to a particular person, and someone finds It much later; should They take what was written to that person, and use It for Themselves? Yet many times, this is what occurs with the Bible text.

It was not until The Apostle Paul was appointed to go to The Gentiles, that The Gentles had spiritual salvation offered to Them.

DeepSeeker
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
I appreciate Your comments. However, I see what was written in that scripture was written to The Gentiles at that Time.
Does that mean It is of no value Today ? Absolutely not!
It does mean; however, that It was written TO THEM DIRECTLY. IF I write A Letter to My friend, and much later someone find It. Then, after finding It, They say: "I like that, I will use it also for Myself. This is unfortunately what has taken place with The Bible scriptures many times.
When writing a letter, and I address It to a particular person, and someone finds It much later; should They take what was written to that person, and use It for Themselves? Yet many times, this is what occurs with the Bible text.

It was not until The Apostle Paul was appointed to go to The Gentiles, that The Gentles had spiritual salvation offered to Them.

DeepSeeker
I have a different view, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the incarnated word of God.

When I search the scriptures I come to find Jesus because that is what the scripture is testifying.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
We limit not the truth of God

1
We limit not the truth of God
To our poor reach of mind,
By notions of our day and sect,
Crude, partial and confined.
Now let a new and better hope
Within our hearts be stirred:
The Lord hath yet more light and truth
To break forth from His Word.
2
Who dares to bind by his dull sense
The oracles of heaven,
For all the nations, tongues and climes
And all the ages given!
The universe how much unknown!
That ocean unexplored!
The Lord hath yet more light and truth
To break forth from His Word.
3
Darkling our great forefathers went
The first steps of the way;
’Twas but the dawning yet to grow
Into the perfect day;
And grow it shall, our glorious Sun
More fervid rays afford:
The Lord hath yet more light and truth
To break forth from His Word.
4
The valleys past, ascending still,
Our souls would higher climb,
And look down from supernal heights,
On all the bygone times;
Upward we press, the air is clear,
And the sphere-music heard!
The Lord hath yet more light and truth
To break forth from His Word.
5
O Father, Son and Spirit, send
Us increase from above;
Enlarge, expand all Christian hearts
To comprehend Thy love;
And make us all go on to know
With nobler powers conferred:
The Lord hath yet more light and truth
To break forth from His Word.

I have no problem with someone who studies history or archaelogy and brings that knowledge to help us understand the word of God. However, I do have a problem with someone telling me we must read the word this way. There is a principle that understanding the meaning of the word at the time it was given is very important to understanding it today, that is fine. But if someone says this word does not apply to us today, that to me is not fine. That is directly contradictory to the Bible which says "all scripture is profitable for instruction". All of it is profitable to us today, all of it applies to us today. I also do not limit my understanding to what I was taught by Watchman Nee. I think he was an excellent Bible expositor. But that doesn't mean his Bible exposition is now canon. For example I believe that Luke 21 refers to the end of the age, the Day of the Lord after the church age is over. That aligns with Watchman Nee. I also believe it refers to 70 AD. That aligns with what others see. I believe it aligns to both. I believe the word is very clear to anyone who is open to reading it that this is the case. The people debating over this are limited by their sect, crude, partial and confined.

The Lord hath yet more light and truth To break forth from His Word.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
So then, let us consider what the Bible says about the rapture and the 9th of Av.

1. It will be as the days of Noah. Why did God flood the earth? It was because man had become flesh and their thoughts were on nothing but evil all day long. This is the same reason why the day of the Lord is coming. Noah's flood depicts the rapture as Noah (Christ) and seven more souls (the church) are delivered from that judgment. That judgment would be directly tied to the Fall of Man -- that is the 9th of Av. They enter the ark seven days before the rain falls and the ark rises. If you begin counting with the 9th of Av as the first day, seven days later is the 15th of Av, that is when the curse ended. The rapture will be seven years before the curse ends.

2. We are also told it will be as the days of Lot. Why did God rain fire on Sodom and Gomorrah? It was because the cry of their evil had risen up to heaven. This is why the Day of the Lord will come on the earth. Lot and his two daughters represent the apostasy, the left behind saints who will flee to the wilderness during the tribulation. Once again the rapture is a rescue that takes place at the same time as the judgment falls and we know from history that the judgment falls on the 9th of Av.

3. When Samson pushes out the two pillars (represents the rapture as the church is the pillar and base of the truth) the temple to Baal collapses and kills all the idolaters and false prophets. Once again, the rapture coincides with the judgement on man for the fall, and that takes place on the 9th of Av.

4. When Elijah calls down fire and all of Israel knows at that moment that Jehovah He is God and He is Lord, that depicts the rapture. At the same time the false prophets are taken down to the brook and killed. That means the judgment falls at the same time as the rapture and we know that the judgment falls on the 9th of Av.

5. When Moses comes down the mountain and breaks the two tablets because Israel is involved in Pagan worship and an orgy, that was the 9th of Av. At that time Moses calls for those who will stand with the Lord, the tribe of Levi goes up to Him, depicting the rapture and then everyone else drinks the bitter water depicting the tribulation and 3,000 are killed indicating judgment on the idolaters.

6. Pentecost is 50 days after the Lord's ascension, He ascended on Shavuot, and Pentecost is on the 8th of Av, the Feast of New wine (this is contrary to what is taught by the Catholic church and denominations, but that teaching is not Biblical, it is easy to prove without any doubt that Jesus ascended on Shavuot, not ten days before hand and that it was a full fifty days later that Pentecost took place and that was the Feast of new wine). This is when the Church age began. Therefore it makes perfect sense that it concludes on the 9th of Av.

7. When Jesus was asked about when these things would take place it was in reference to the temple being cast down and not one stone remaining on another. The temple is always cast down on the 9th of Av. The first two temples were both cast down on that date. Jesus said He would build His church and Paul said the church is the temple of God. The church is the third temple, at the rapture it will be cast down. If your faith is on the rock, on the revelation of Jesus Christ, then you will be raptured. If your faith is resting on what brother so and so says, or what the pastor says, then you are a stone that is resting on another stone and you will be cast down. This will happen on the 9th of Av.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Manhattan NY, You Burn First 6-19-25@1:27 PM


Cities that will be targeted by suitcase nukes


Manhattan
Syracuse NY
Three in Texas
One in Virginia
One in Maryland
Two in California
One in Florida

Everyone should have sought the Lord whether or not they need to leave. If you live in NY, Texas, Virginia, Maryland, California or Florida you should be crying out to the Lord for the location. Even if you do not live in the ten block area that is incinerated, and even if you do not live within a mile of the blast the impact will still be devastating. The air and water will be contaminated and the power will be out.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof; (Proverbs 5:12)

When you suffer calamity in your personal life, or in your career then you will say "How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;".

Once you learn this you will love instruction and you will love reproof.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
A closer look at the Apostasy

Proverbs 7:1 My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.

The apostasy means to depart. There is a big debate over whether it refers to the rapture or whether it refers to the church departing from the Lord. The first use of this word refers to Jews departing from the words of Moses. So I'm not going to even bother with whether or not we are talking about the rapture, the New Testament clearly talks about God's people departing from His word and His commandments.

2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

One of the biggest debates today is over "works salvation". So let's address this. On the one hand there is absolutely nothing you can do to save yourself from sin. You have sinned, you are a debtor to sin, and you cannot pay off that debt, hence you are a slave to sin. Jesus paid the full price when He died on the cross and poured out His blood for you. The only way to be saved from sin is to receive Jesus' redemption, let the Lord's blood pay the price for your sin. To do that you must confess your sins and receive the salvation that Jesus wrought as a free gift of grace.

That said the New Testament commands us to "believe and be baptized". It isn't a suggestion, it is a command. You are not saved from sin by being baptized. According to the New Testament baptism is the testimony of a heart that is right with God. If you pray to the Lord and get saved you can tell your friends in the world and they will say "Cool". You can talk about the Lord's love, and peace and forgiveness and everyone will be fine with that. Not much different from someone telling them about how Yoga helps them or Transcendental Meditation or LSD. But, if you go and get baptized after believing watch their faces drop. "Why would you go and do that?" Finding God and being spiritual are fully acceptable in the world, but being baptized, no that is a testimony that you are leaving the world and following Jesus. That is not acceptable.

That was my testimony. I did not see any reason why I needed to be baptized, as far as I was concerned I was saved. However, they showed me in the word of God where we are told to believe and then be baptized (I had been christened as a child). My thought was "If Jesus says we need to do this fine, I'll do it". That obedience begins a new process of salvation, not from sin, but the salvation of your soul. We are rebellious, we are all doing what is right in our own eyes. To declare that Jesus is Lord is one thing, to actually do what He says, well that is proof that He is Lord of your life. This is why Philippians says to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". He isn't talking about salvation from sin, he is talking about the salvation of your rebellious soul.

3 Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.

This is. a reference to the New Covenant that Ezekiel talks about where God will write His word on our heart. An engagement ring is "bound on your finger". When you bind the word to your actions then to God it is comparable to wearing an engagement ring. Anyone can say they love the Lord, but the Lord said "if you love Me why don't you do the things that I command?"

4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

Think of all the jokes about how no one can understand women. No one is going to understand the whole Bible from day one. Rather you get to know the Bible, think of it as a relationship where you get to know a close relative who is a woman.

5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words.

As a rule the women I am related to are more diplomatic and considerate of others feelings than I am. But they don't flatter with their words. They may show interest, they may appreciate certain things, but if there is something they don't like they will let you know. So this works equally well for a Pastor. A pastor should be more diplomatic, more considerate, more circumspect with his words than what you typically see in the world. No coarse jesting, no corrupt speech, etc. However, they aren't supposed to flatter you, that would be strange.

6 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,

The church is the house of God, it is also the family of God. We don't have a thousand people living in one house as a family, that would be strange. The largest family I ever knew had sixteen children, but even so by the time the youngest was born (my friend) some of his oldest brothers and sisters had already gotten married and had kids of their own, so even then you didn't have all of them living under one roof. If the church you meet with is not like a family then something is strange. If you go to church and half the people are strangers then something is very strange about that church.

7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,

The reason people are in the apostasy is because they are void of understanding. They may quote Bible verses, but they are void of understanding the harm of being in that assembly. If you are in the apostasy, I don't mean that some of the people in the congregation are sinners, that is the church as the hospital. I mean that you are in a church that is leaving the word of God, a church that does not obey the commandments of God. They pick and choose what they will keep. I'm not talking about legalistic. For example, one rule in the New Testament is that the Pastor is the husband of one wife. If they ignore that and say it is out of date or sexist then they have departed from the word of God. They do that because they are void of understanding. The church is composed of men and women, hence the leader of the church needs to be both man and woman, to get that you need a pastor who is married. Second, we have a lot of damaged people who come into the church and the first evidence of damage is a damaged marriage. As a result we need the pastor to be an example to the flock showing them the way of salvation and one evidence that this is the case is a good marriage. No one knows the real situation of a man better than his wife and children, the best way to vet someone is to see that those relationships are good. This rule is not sexist, what is sexist is having a single person be the pastor whether male or female. This rule is not hypocritical, you aren't picking the guy who can speak the best, you are picking the guy who is the best example of a life lived for the Lord.

8 Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,

Why do people who are void of understanding get attracted to the apostate churches? I find this expression strange "the way to her house". If I look out my window and see someone walking down the street or driving down the street I would not assume they were going "the way to a harlot's house". To me this sounds like there are big signs saying "this church, this way".

9 In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:

At this time it is very hard to see blemishes. The church should be a lighthouse, when you get into the meeting you should feel like you have stepped into the light. If you go to a church where you feel like you can hide and no one will see you that is a strange church. A church like this will be very comfortable for sinners. Think of being a sinner as being someone who has leprosy. You don't want to go into the light, it is exposing, but it is also the only way you will get well. We have to confess our sins and repent of them and the best way is to shine a bright light so that we can't ignore them.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
A closer look at the Apostasy (part 2)

Proverbs 7:10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

If you are void of understanding you assume no one is out hunting for you, no one is lying in wait for you. This woman is like a salesman who works on commission. If you go to a church that seems more like a company that is looking at the monthly sales than like a family, that is a strange church. A harlot is a woman who sees her relationships with men as transactional, like a saleswoman, rather than as a wife.

11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:

If you think you "like this" then you are void of understanding. Who wants a wife that does not abide in the house? Loud and stubborn is strange for a woman because women grow up in a society where they are smaller and weaker than men. A normal woman will be thinking of risks, she will want to be with several friends because on her own she is much more likely to be taken advantage of.

12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)

If this is the way she is when she is single she won't change simply because she is married. She is what she is and she enjoys being who she is. The reason the man who is void of understanding gets involved with her is because it is easy. She caught him, not the other way around. The proper way to find a wife and to find a church is to pray about it and to be led by the Lord. If there are big signs, billboards, neon lights, ads on TV, that is not being led by the Lord. That is someone who lieth in wait for you.

13 So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him,

An impudent face is a major flashing red light, do not get involved with a woman who has an impudent face. In the same way do not get involved with a church that has an impudent face. This word means "not showing due respect for another person". What you must see in any church is that they are showing due respect to Jesus Christ. Jesus is the incarnated word of God, to show due respect to Jesus means you must also show due respect to the word of God. For example "our creed is 'the Bible only'". What they are saying is we believe whatever the Bible says. They may also say they believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. An impudent church will says that the Bible is out of date, it is sexist, it is anachronistic, etc.

14 I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows.

This is a stunning thing to say. She is a harlot and an adulterous woman seducing a man to commit adultery with her. Yet at the same time she has "peace offerings with her and she has already paid her vows". The vows indicate thanksgiving. The apostasy is just like this, they give thanks that they have been forgiven of sin and now have peace with God and yet it has not impacted their living at all. They can live in sin with impunity. Imagine listening to an adulterous wife talk this way, you would thing "this is a strange woman, a strange marriage, let me slowly back away from this".

15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.

This is what cults do, it is called "drinking the kool aid". Because I am so happy and full of thanksgiving I want to share it with the world. But you have a married woman, dressed as a harlot, walking the city streets to snare men to have an adulterous affair with. Don't listen to their "happy talk" look at what they do, not what they say.

16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt. 17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.

Who does this? It sounds like the honeymoon suite in Las Vegas. The gospel in the apostasy is that you can be forgiven of sins, go to heaven and still live in sin and depravity. It does not pass the smell test.

18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves. 19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: 20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.

Why do you think some people are so concerned about "when the rapture will be"? If you are living every day one with the Lord, walking according to the will of God and full of life and peace, does it really matter? However, if you are this adulterous harlot, you know your husband will come home one day with a bag of money and you certainly don't want to get caught in bed with another man on that day, then it matters a whole lot. This word exposes the whole lie. She knows that she does not want to be caught in the act of adultery when the Lord comes home, yet she pretends it is OK because she is forgiven. If you fall for that garbage then you are void of understanding.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Look at what the New Testament says about the rapture, you have to have the apostasy first. Why?

1. Consider Samson pushing out the two pillars, that is a picture of the rapture and at the same time you have a temple filled with idol worshippers who die.

2. Consider Elijah calling down fire. That is when all Israel becomes clear who is teaching the word of God in truth and who is lying. After that they take the false prophets and kill them. That is also a picture of the rapture.

3. Consider Moses breaking the two tablets. He calls the Levites up and then makes everyone drink left behind to drink the bitter water and 3,000 idolaters are killed. That also is a picture of the rapture.

4. Consider Lot at the same time he is rescued all these evil ones given to hedonism and the flesh are killed.

5. Consider Noah at the same time they enter the ark the rest of the people who mocked and scoffed are locked out of the ark and die in the flood.

6. Consider Esther at the same time that she and Mordecai are honored Haman and his ten sons are hanged on the gallows they built.

Every type and shadow of the rapture needs to have the apostasy to already be there and established so that they are judged. Consider the parable of the wheat and tares growing together in the same field and then being separated at the time of the harvest. The tares are when the apostasy comes to full fruit just as the wheat also comes to full fruit. The same time the church is ready to be raptured the apostasy is ready to be burned. You need some to abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits so that those who are approved of the Lord can be manifested, like Elijah, or Esther, or Noah, or Lot, or the Levites.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
This wedding refers to the Apostasy

Luke 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

We are the Lord's servants, we are watching for His return, and we are His bride. We are told that His return is like our Lord returning from a wedding. That is not His wedding, it is someone else's wedding, but their wedding coincides with the rapture. We are told that the apostasy must take place before the rapture. Therefore the apostasy is a major sign to us of the rapture being imminent.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Revelation 2 -- Ephesus and two paths that Christians take

The letter to Ephesus shows us how how our Christian life begins. We heard the message and believed, it was brought to us by a messenger of the Lord, someone that He holds in His hand. Then we got a vision of Christ in the midst of the church. These are two essential visions for our Christian life contained in the gospel of salvation: Christ and the church. In every one of these seven churches the Lord refers to their works. James said that faith without works is dead. These works indicate the condition of the church. When I read these two chapters of Revelation I see my own experiences in every church. I feel that our experience of the church can be in any one of these and over our lifetime we can experience everyone of them. But here, in Ephesus, is where the split begins and two paths diverge. It is possible to be a believer, in the church, but who has left their first love. It is like floating down a river and the further and further you go on that path the worse and worse your situation becomes. I feel the next six churches give us a view of these two possible outcomes. You can see those who repent and do the first works, returning to their first love, and you can also see those for whom the light goes out until the Lord steps in and removes the lampstand.

Smyrna

Next, we have all experienced death and resurrection. Especially death to our ego. No one wants to be last, everyone wants to be first. The works here are really different, instead of labor we have tribulation. Instead of patience we have poverty, and instead of them rejecting evil they are being blasphemed by the “synagogue of Satan”. Here, in my experience, you can see the clear divide. Who was our first love? If you return to Him you will be with Him in tribulation, in poverty and in the slander of the religious leaders. Who are those who have left their first love? They leave because they don’t want tribulation, they don’t want poverty. They distort the gospel to create a gospel that says being rich is a sign that you have been blessed by God (and thus being poor is a sign you have not been blessed). They are blaspheming the Lord and His body. If you repent and return to your first love you get to eat the tree of life. There is no crown, but your soul is satisfied, your hunger is filled, and you know it is right. But if you do that you will be strengthened to endure the tribulation, poverty, and blasphemy of these false believers which the Lord calls “the synagogue of Satan”. I don’t mean that they aren’t believers, no they are most likely believers, but they are false, they pretend to be holy, and they pretend to love the Lord. They will say they are a Christian but show no interest in watching for His soon return. What is the second death? Is that referring to those who get rebuked at the judgement seat of Christ? Is that referring to those believers who are not raptured but instead have the weeping and gnashing of teeth? What a nice promise to those who have willingly chosen to take up their cross and follow the Lord enduring tribulation, poverty and slander. You will not be hurt when you appear before the Lord’s judgement seat.

Pergamos

Synagogue of Satan doesn’t seem as intense as “where Satan’s seat is” and “where Satan dwelleth”. Those that have left the first love have become that much stronger, that much more entrenched, that much more an enemy of God. When you lie you have to keep fortifying and strengthening that lie. Every time someone seems on the verge of exposing your lie you have to become that much more vehement to shut them down. Antipas, meaning “against all”, was one who was a faithful witness. He did expose their hypocrisy and so they killed him. Balaam was a false prophet. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t a prophet, he was. It simply means he was false, he prophesied for money. He didn’t serve the Lord. On the one hand he spoke the word of God, on the other he would teach the enemies of God how to defeat the church. So what do you do if you are a phony Christian. You can pretend for awhile, but you are going to get exposed. You don’t have the tree of life, no one is being fed, no one is satisfied within, and no one has peace that they are right with God. So, you need a prophet, a Balaam, one who will truly speak the word of God for money. You hire this guy and you can keep the charade going longer. Those who have returned to their first love have saints like Antipas, but they get slandered and killed by these phony believers. Initially the church started and everyone hated the works of the Nicolaitans, we can all know the Lord we can all worship the Lord. But those that left their first love soon realize they can’t, they need a crutch, they need something that can make this charade appear real. So, they hire for themselves a prophet for hire. He can be a real prophet but soon he will be a puppet. To overcome Balaam, the Nicolaitans, and those that slew Antipas, that is not a small thing. That is like crossing the Jordan river into the good land. That is like becoming transformed into one of the mighty men of David. That is like having a hidden supply that never runs dry.

Thyatira

The eyes like unto a flame of fire is likening Him to the powerful judge, signified in the heavens with Taurus the Bull where one of the stars for his eyes is red. To have feet like fine brass indicates that He is frequently polishing his gospel by speaking and sharing. It sounds good, works and charity and more works. But labor is deeper than works and tribulation is deeper still. These works seem almost superficial, and they realize it, so the last works are more than the first. Jezebel was a gentile queen, not even an Israelite. Her name means “chaste” but she was anything but, so it means she pretends to be holy but it is a deceitful scam. She taught her husband to murder others and steal their vineyards by accusing them of being a heretic. She employed hundreds of prophets of Baal, no longer is it just one guy who is a real prophet compromised by money, but now they aren’t even real prophets of God. They are all about money, selling indulgences. Look at the progression of those that leave their first love. They become a synagogue of Satan, that grows till Satan’s seat is with them and he dwells with them. They bring in false prophets like Balaam, but that gets worse as they give the reigns to the evil Jezebel and she hires prophets of Baal to try and really pump the money up. Ultimately she realizes the fastest way to get rich is by slander, murder and theft. But she has to hide this, so it becomes “the depths of Satan”. As a result those that held to the Lord in tribulation and poverty, those who were slandered, persecuted and killed. They can only remain as long as they are so simple they are clueless to what is going on. If you can make it through this furnace, then you are truly ready to deal with the world as a ruler with a rod of iron.

Sardis

This church is dead, they are lucky if they can get just a trickle of God’s speaking. It is like one of those phony Hollywood towns where the buildings are nothing but a facade. Faith without works is dead, this church is “ready to die”. It is like a tree that has been infested with bark beetles and is being dried out. The membership is cratering because they don’t have the living word of God, as a result the only thing they can afford is to pay for the pastor and the building. It is nothing but a shell. Right now the internet is exploding with testimonies of dreams and visions of the coming rapture. The saints are on high alert, literally. Yet you can still hear many from these dead denominations with their “ho hum, heard this before” response. However there are a few exceptions to this rule and this is the only reason they haven’t died yet. Blot your name out of the book of life! Whatever happened to “once saved always saved”? Sardis has learned you can no longer kill Antipas like they did in Pergamos or like they did in Thyatira. So instead they “blot your name out”. They excommunicate anyone who stands against the corruption or sinfulness of these dead churches.

Philadelphia

The key of David refers to the “chief of staff” always having the key to enter in and talk to the Lord. Where in the Bible do we see a mighty man of God? Moses was the meekest man, Elijah basically curled up in a ball and wanted to die. The name Paul means “small”, surely you don’t think Peter was a mighty man of God. Here we are in Philadelphia, and they have “a little strength”. They are only able to do two things: keep His word and not deny His name. “and he shall go no more out”. Everyone in this church has “gone out” previously. Maybe they were with Antipas when he was slain and got driven out of Pergamos. Maybe they discovered the deep things of Satan in Thyatira and had to leave. Maybe they were blotted out of Sardis, excommunicated. Regardless of the cost, the persecution, the slander they were faithful witnesses of the Lord. They had a backbone, just the kind of saint you want for a pillar to hold up the temple. You can see the expression of God in them. This path they have taken has caused them to be transformed, they have a new name. They are no longer the old man but Christ is all and in all in them.

Laodicea -- This is the apostasy

This is what happens when the Lord tells you to leave and you don’t say Amen. You watched the faithful and true witness leave but you stayed behind. This is what happens when you don’t have faith in the one who is the beginning of the creation of God. You are afraid to start from scratch, better just stay where you are even though it is dead. This is the boastful, arrogant, and condescending church. That is the apostasy.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
1Timothy 4 -- What is the apostasy?

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Let’s discuss what these demons teach. First, they will negate the necessity of faith in Jesus to be saved. As long as you do what you think is good then that is OK. Second they will undermine the faith in one God and Father. Since God is the God of all then “all Gods” are referring to this God. This is a direct contradiction to the word of the Lord that He is the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Him. They will deny specific commands and laws in the Bible like capital punishment. This is arrogant and opens the door for anyone to treat God’s word in a way that you can pick and choose what you will receive and what you will reject. They will teach people to commit fornication. They will teach ecumenism as a way to short circuit preaching the gospel. On the surface ecumenism sounds good, the oneness of all Christians. But when someone denies the faith once for all delivered to the saints, that is not something you can tolerate. So what they are really teaching when they say “ecumenism” is to tolerate that woman Jezebel who calls herself a prophetess and teaches my servants to worship idols and commit fornication. That is what these teachings are doing. Also, instead of referring to preaching the gospel as preaching the gospel they call it “proselytizing” and condemn it as unfriendly. This is a big deal, you must not share the gospel with atheists, you must respect the “freedom of religion” of every person. So preaching the gospel is now “disrespectful” of someone’s freedom not to believe. Along these lines they teach you to worship in silence, just like Paul said, they worship dumb idols that make you dumb. They will teach there is no hell, that Islam and Judaism and Christianity all worship the same God. Again, blurring the lines of the gospel in an attempt to deceive the elect. They will undermine the faith by referring to certain passages in the Bible as “magic” and “God is not a magician”. They will confuse and distort what the Lord did on the cross. Jesus bore our judgement for sin on the cross. He didn’t commit sin, but He bore the full judgement for the sin that we have committed. In that way He has paid the full price for our redemption. But they will distort that and say Jesus became a sinner for us, it isn’t our sin, it is His. In this teaching liberating us from sin becomes liberating us to sin. They will undermine marriage and reject God’s condemnation of homosexual acts.

2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

We see certain sects forbid the priests and nuns to get married. This sounds holy and chaste, but what has happened is that about 25% of priests do have sexual relations with other adults. As a result you have a serious problem. Either you don’t have enough priests or you cover up this behavior. This teaching pushes many priests into committing fornication which in turn compromises their ability to condemn sin. Then you have pedophile priests. If they excommunicate the pedophile priests they might in turn expose the priests who are committing fornication, so the whole house of cards comes down. So instead they simply shuffle the pedophile priests around from parish to parish. This teaching promotes a religion of lies, deceit, hypocrisy and evil. Also this discourages heterosexual men from becoming priests and so thus you are encouraging homosexual men and predators.

4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

This becomes a distorted and twisted view of the Bible. God doesn’t forbid priests to marry, the Bible doesn’t, but because the Catholic church does people then think that God does. That in turn makes everyone think that if they are married they are somehow less holy or less consecrated to God. The backlash is what we are seeing now with an all out assault on God and the Bible. Then when it gets exposed that they are in fact involved in fornication and pedophilia they come across as hypocrites and so people in mass leave the church.

6 If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.

The worldly society is filled with godless myths. Santa Claus, Halloween, horror movies, zombies, vampires are all examples of godless myths. Don’t have anything to do with them.

8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Train yourself like someone going to the gym. We have put our trust in the living God who is the savior of all people. That is why we preach the gospel, that is why we speak of the Lord, that is why we teach people to repent of sin, that is why we obey the Lord’s word. We do His commands because we love Him and know Him. We know that He is the savior of all people and we want all to receive Him by faith and repent of their sins. Because some teach a works based salvation their is this massive reaction condemning works. It is confusing and so many Christians don't get involved in works. As a result their faith withers and dies. James says faith without works is dead. If possible Satan does not want anyone to be saved. But if you are saved he would prefer you wither and die from inactivity.

11 Command and teach these things.

The deceiving spirits mock the idea of “command these things” they even attempt to discourage you from teaching these things.

12 Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity. 13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. 14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

The Lord is coming and until He does come we need to devote ourselves to these things: public reading of scripture, preaching and teaching.

15 Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. 16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

The more diligent we are the more we will progress. It is like the guy who goes to the gym and works out. When we preach and teach and read scriptures it can save those who hear, but it will also save us. Doing this is a salvation to you first and foremost. The apostasy is like the Christian who departs from the gym, departs from the word, departs from the fellowship and ultimately will depart from the faith.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
2 Peter 2 -- How to identify false teachers

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.

Recently, during the lockdown I have been going to Youtube everyday (never did that before) and I have seen many false prophets masquerading as prophets and men of God. Peter explains how to identify them. They are necessary, it is important for us to discern what is true and what is false, it is like taking an exam and it causes you to dive into the word.

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

We can talk about the destructive heresies they bring in, and I have already referred to this in my discussion of the apostasy in 1Timothy 4 in the previous post (#14,074). Instead of repeating what was posted in those two posts I want to focus on one destructive heresy concerning the rapture and denying the sovereign Lord who bought them. If anyone teaches you need anything in addition to Jesus's redeeming blood to be forgiven and saved that is to deny the sovereign Lord who bought you. Just remember "Jesus plus nothing". A heresy is a school of thought. Every doctrine is a school of thought, so simply having a "heresy" is not much of an issue. But a destructive heresy is one that will damage the body of Christ. They cause believers to be divided, to fight, and they lead to bitter rivalries and insults. There are seven ones, once for all delivered to the saints, the items of the Faith of the apostles. Those we must all be one on and we must take a stand to defend them. Every other doctrine is something we can be general about.

2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Paul goes into great detail concerning their depraved conduct in 1Timothy 4. This conduct has certainly caused the way of truth to be brought into disrepute, which was Satan’s strategy. For example the Pedophile priests in the Catholic church have caused the church to be mocked derisively. Televangelists and Preachers of the “prosperity gospel” who are always hawking their books and peddling their prayers are another group that bring disrepute onto Christians. A third group very easy to mock are those who predicted the day and hour of the Lord’s rapture only to be totally shamed. But in this chapter I want to focus on a fourth group that is never brought up. After the rapture there will be many Christians who are left behind. Among those will be those who ignored the Lord’s word and taught others to ignore it as well. So we now have three criteria to look for. A destructive heresy meaning not only do they introduce some special doctrine but they fight over it, elevating it to the status of "the faith". Second, they deny the Lord who bought them. This can be very subtle, they bring in a doctrine, emphasize how important this is, and ultimately if you don't receive this doctrine then you aren't really saved, hence they deny the sovereign Lord who bought you. Thirdly you will see depraved conduct. Coarse jesting would be the least of it, fornication, adultery, covetousness, and fraud. If you see any of those things walk away.

3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories.

Their claim to a ministry is based on a falsehood, a fabricated story. Dig down and you will see their entire house rests on a foundation of sinking sand. Many false prophets have a origin story that is fantastic and is designed to prove that this person has "a special anointing". Anyone claiming to have a special anointing is a false prophet. The New Testament is very clear we have all received an anointing. There is no special anointing, instead we have five talented members, three talented members and one talented member. If the origin story is fabricated, the person is a liar and by definition is a false prophet.

False prophets are like Balaam and Judas. Money is always a motivation. It may seem very discreet or hidden. So remember this, if it is a false prophet money must be involved. They might be selling books or CDs or videos, they might have monetized their channel, they might be a preacher at a mega church, but one way or another money is involved. If no money is involved they could simply be teaching in error, but at least they are not exploiting anyone. However, just because money is involved that is not proof of a false prophet. Paul said you do not muzzle the ox that treads out the corn.

People who are greedy will reveal that with the words of their mouth. They may talk about luxury cars, private planes, private airplanes, etc. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so if you detect this person is greedy and they are making money off of their ministry I would beware and I would examine their testimonies and doctrines very carefully.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

This is the very first thing the Lord warned us about when answering when will these things be. The apostasy is one of the very biggest signs of the Lord's coming. Many shall come in the Lord's name. That has been true for all of the church age, but now with social media and youtube this has exploded. Everyone has noticed that the attempt at deception with deep fakes and AI have exploded.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
A closer look at the Apostasy (part 3)

Proverbs 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.

The Lord does not force you, He respects your free will. It is Satan that will try to trap you, coerce you, and make you feel guilty and obligated if you start to have second thoughts. Also, notice, that Jesus did not always have "fair speech", He called out the synagogue of Satan, He called out those who were of their father the devil, He called them a brood of vipers, and He overthrew the table of the moneychangers. All of these things, the fair speech, the forcing you to yield, the flattering lips, and feeling forced into it, all of them are red flags.

22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;

Think about it, if you feel like an ox going to the slaughter wake up! If you feel like a fool heading to the correction of stocks, wake up! You should be praying that the Lord speak to you in your spirit. If he is saying any of these things it is time to wake up.

23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.

In Genesis God says it is not good for man to be alone. He didn't say it was bad, only that it was not good. Think of a number line, if you are alone it is at the 0, neither good nor bad. A good marriage can be great, a bad marriage can be horrible. Good friends can help you to walk with the Lord, bad friends can pull you down to hell. What I am saying is being alone is much better than being in a bad marriage or being with bad friends or being in an apostate church. Even though it is much better than that it is not "good". So pray the Lord give you a good wife, good friends and a Bible believing church.

24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.

Very often it costs you something to hearken unto the Lord. In my experience the longer you wait the more it costs. The sooner you react to do what the Lord says the easier and cheaper it is going to be.

25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.

This is the key thing. You can be in an apostate church and still not decline to her ways or go astray in her paths. You can be married to an adulterous woman, doesn't mean you must decline to her ways or go astray to her paths. You might have friends who are criminals, again, doesn't mean you have to be one.

26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.

How many men got AIDS? How many broken marriages? How many men went to prison because they were in the car when their friends committed a crime?

27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Apostasy -- You have lifted up the Shrine of your king

Constantine mixed Christianity with pagan rituals — the root of the apostasy. There are many pagan practices in the celebration of Christmas: the tree, the colors, things like mistletoe all are pagan practices and the worship of Baal. December 25th was the day they celebrated Saturnalia. The star on the top of the tree was the capstone. The Hexagram (called Star of David) but actually the Star of Solomon. It is a cursing symbol. Constantine was a Roman king and embracing these practices in the church is to "lift up the shrine of your king".

Amos 5:26 You have lifted up the shrine of your king, the pedestal of your idols, the star of your god— which you made for yourselves. 27 Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus,” says the Lord, whose name is God Almighty.

You cannot claim that having a fire during the winter is pagan, or putting up flowers and decorations is pagan, but bringing in a tree, decorating it, and putting the star on top, now you are crossing a line into idolatry and worship. These are the things that God takes issue with in the Bible.

It is undeniable that Christmas involves the worship of pagan Gods and that has been embraced by many denominations and those in apostasy. It is also undeniable that God will judge the church for this and send them into exile. When? We know that immediately after the rapture those that are left behind will be rebuked and need to repent and from that moment on they go into exile.

Because of this I am looking for a shadow not only of the church being caught up (the two pillars being pushed out, Noah's ark being lifted by the flood, Lot being rescued from Sodom) but I am also looking for the picture of those caught in idolatry being sent into exile. We see this when the ten spies gave the evil report, we see this when Samson pushed out the pillars and the temple collapsed killing thousands, we see this when Elijah called down fire and then the false prophets were killed and Elijah ran into the wilderness in exile, we see this when Lot was rescued and fire fell on Sodom and Gomorrah.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Apostasy -- You have lifted up the Shrine of your king (part 2)

Hebrews 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
  1. Pretending that the celebration of Saturnalia and the worship of the sun is celebrating Jesus' birth is to trample the Son of God underfoot.
  2. The feast of the purification of Isis became the feast of the nativity, in this way they treat the blood of the covenant as an unholy thing.
  3. The expression “the spirit of Christmas” is an insult to the Spirit of grace.
30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Clearly Christmas epitomizes the apostasy of Christianity and will be judged by the Lord. It is His to avenge, and He will repay. The same thing can be said of Easter. It doesn't stop there, we will discover that behind closed doors witchcraft has infected much more of Christianity than we ever could have imagined.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
42,289
8,018
113
Proverbs 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

The rapture is the recompense to the righteous, the seven year tribulation is the recompense to the wicked.