My Sister is a Surrogate

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Q

quakerzen

Guest
#1
My sister has made the very gracious choice to carry a baby for a couple that could not have a child of their own (a gay couple.) I'm not here to debate the morality of homosexuality or if gays having kids is okay. I don't want your opinions on that, please. My little brother is gay and I wholeheartedly support him.

My question is about surrogacy in general. Do you think carrying a baby for others is a "premarital sex" thing? My sister is not married or in a serious relationship. The money was great ($80,000) and one of the fathers is the a close family friend. Does anyone think that surrogacy is a sin? She's committed to it, but I'm just curious of opinions.
 
D

DRNFINO

Guest
#2
First, congratulations on the steps to becoming a Mom. Coming from a guy's point of view I do not think this has anything to do with sex on your sisters part; it has to do with love for you and you for her. Although you may have took a different path than others you have to remember you took the path that brought a new soul in to the world so how bad can that be : )

I would say relax, enjoy the next 9 months, help your sister and remember to have fun with your child.
 
Q

quakerzen

Guest
#3
Not my kid, not my kid! haha I'm not gay, and my girlfriend and I aren't trying to become parents for a LONG time hahaha. But the baby's dads want us to be involved with the baby, especially my sister. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the idea of parents having a surrogate if they can't have kids of their own (the woman is infertile or a gay couple.) I just wanted to know what others thought.
 
D

DRNFINO

Guest
#4
Haha.....sorry : )
 
H

Hellooo

Guest
#5
Surrogacy in and of itself doesn't separate us from God. Mary herself was a surrogate, and there are several examples of adoption in scripture, particularly in the OT (Moses, Esther, Dan.)
 
I

intercessorginger

Guest
#6
Well there are many issues to look at and we have to approach it biblically. There were no circumstance in the bible where there would be a similar situation. Children are a blessing from God produced by love to the married couple.
They are not a commodiity to be bought and sold for money, this is degrading.
1. The woman "providing the service" is unmarried, it's hard to know what you would call this
2. The chiild will be "given" to a homosexual couple, even though you dont' want to discuss it..this is not a bible lifestyle santioned by God.
3. The surrogate is being paid quite a lot for the "service" should you use your body the temple of the Holy Spirit for such a purpose?
4. Is the child actually purchased by that exchange? Hopfully the child never finds this out.
 
Q

quakerzen

Guest
#7
Well there are many issues to look at and we have to approach it biblically. There were no circumstance in the bible where there would be a similar situation. Children are a blessing from God produced by love to the married couple.
They are not a commodiity to be bought and sold for money, this is degrading.
1. The woman "providing the service" is unmarried, it's hard to know what you would call this
2. The chiild will be "given" to a homosexual couple, even though you dont' want to discuss it..this is not a bible lifestyle santioned by God.
3. The surrogate is being paid quite a lot for the "service" should you use your body the temple of the Holy Spirit for such a purpose?
4. Is the child actually purchased by that exchange? Hopfully the child never finds this out.
Well the child is gonna have two dads, I'm pretty sure he or she is gonna know a woman had to be involved somewhere. And surrogacy is paid for because the woman is going through the pain of child birth and 9 months of carrying a baby for a couple that can't do that on their own. I think any woman that would do that is very generous and gracious. I honestly can't say (if i were a woman) that I could bring myself to carry a child for someone else. And as far as the parents being a gay couple, they are awesome people. One of them is one of my best family friends and eventually when I have kids, they would be put on my will as someone, other than sister and brother (who is also gay), that would get custody of my kids. They're practicing Episcopalians and I know homosexuality is a very touchy subject for some people, but this couple is just any other couple and they deserve happiness just like you and me, and this kid is gonna have BOSS parents who love him/her just like every child needs.

And my sister is not married to her boyfriend, but either way, it wouldn't have been his child. It's gonna be a surgical procedure, not actual sex.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#8
Right from the start you state that you actively coenable homosexuality and homosexuals engaging females to have children for them to raise but you don't want to talk about it.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to talk about it. The reason is because it's an abomination.

BUT you're quite willing to talk about whether the female's carrying the child to hand over to the homosexuals to raise is OK?

Of course, it is NOT OK. NOTHING about what's going on here is OK. It may be legal but it certainly IS sinful and immoral in a big way.



My sister has made the very gracious choice to carry a baby for a couple that could not have a child of their own (a gay couple.) I'm not here to debate the morality of homosexuality or if gays having kids is okay. I don't want your opinions on that, please. My little brother is gay and I wholeheartedly support him.

My question is about surrogacy in general. Do you think carrying a baby for others is a "premarital sex" thing? My sister is not married or in a serious relationship. The money was great ($80,000) and one of the fathers is the a close family friend. Does anyone think that surrogacy is a sin? She's committed to it, but I'm just curious of opinions.
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
#9
I don't believe that there is anything wrong with being a surrogate for a couple who cannot have children of their own. Indeed, it is gracious on the part of a woman to choose to carry a child for 9 months, give birth to it, and then give it away to a family that will love and care for it. Not to mention it takes a great deal of strength. Children are a blessing from the Lord, but that blessing comes in many different ways....like adoption or having someone else carry your baby to term. So...I don't know that it is a question of surrogacy...but if your sister is a Christian, perhaps she should look into God's word regarding homosexual lifestyle. Even though her heart is in the right place in wanting to help this couple out (and...I'm sure they are wonderful people, like you have said), the practice of homosexuality is not acceptable to God, according to His Word. And by giving birth to a child just to hand it over into an openly sinful lifestyle...could have consequences...well, will have consequences at some point...especially if she knows what God's word says about it. Just a question....if you didn't want to talk about the fact that they were a homosexual couple, then why did you mention it in the first place??
 
D

djness

Guest
#10
Right from the start you state that you actively coenable homosexuality and homosexuals engaging females to have children for them to raise but you don't want to talk about it.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to talk about it. The reason is because it's an abomination.

BUT you're quite willing to talk about whether the female's carrying the child to hand over to the homosexuals to raise is OK?

Of course, it is NOT OK. NOTHING about what's going on here is OK. It may be legal but it certainly IS sinful and immoral in a big way.
I completely agree with this actually. Giving a child to someone who is going to raise them that this sin is ok, doesn't seem like something God is going to smile on anyone involved.
 
D

djness

Guest
#11
My sister has made the very gracious choice to carry a baby for a couple that could not have a child of their own (a gay couple.) I'm not here to debate the morality of homosexuality or if gays having kids is okay. I don't want your opinions on that, please. My little brother is gay and I wholeheartedly support him.

My question is about surrogacy in general. Do you think carrying a baby for others is a "premarital sex" thing? My sister is not married or in a serious relationship. The money was great ($80,000) and one of the fathers is the a close family friend. Does anyone think that surrogacy is a sin? She's committed to it, but I'm just curious of opinions.
To quakerzen, if you didn't want anyone to comment on that first paragraph you would have been better off not mentioning it, given this is a christian site.

To the second half I think helloo responded best.
"Surrogacy in and of itself doesn't separate us from God. Mary herself was a surrogate, and there are several examples of adoption in scripture, particularly in the OT (Moses, Esther, Dan.)"
 
Q

quakerzen

Guest
#12
Well, thank you, most-recent-three-commenters for being 100% disrespectful and completely slapping what I said in the face... I didn't want ot discuss their sexuality because of people like you all. My sister made a choice to bring a life into the world for a couple. I wanted to know people's opinions on that. I only mentioned the genders of the parents because I figured, as adults, you could all be mature. I was incorrect, and I apologize.
 
E

eagle4031

Guest
#13
your sister is doing this out of love, and for money. It is that simple. If her main reason is love, i am for it. Some children should not be in some heterosexual families. It is best not to judge, Just love.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#14
Allow me to help you out since you're obviously in error here in that you are applying agape love against God's law.

Understand, the proper relating of love to the law of God is one of the hallmarks of Biblical theology and the Christian life.

Two equal and opposite dangers have to be avoided:

1. Legalism effectively ousts agape love as a dynamic of the gospel and the Christian life by reducing both to obedience or conformity to a set of external commands or rules, after the manner of the scribes and Pharisees in the gospels.

2. Its opposite, antinomianism, ousts God's law as a dynamic of the gospel and the Christian life.

Neither is acceptable.

Antinomianism is heresy that tells Christians it's OK to forget about God's law and concentrate solely on agape love... a course which usually is a justification for degeneration and immoral licence, rather than promoting the true Christian liberty (i.e. freedom from sin to serve God and our fellows) found in scripture as has happened here in your case.

The gospel of God’s grace in Jesus Christ frees the Christian from both these erroneous tendencies but only if you will BOTH respect and follow God's commandments and practice agape love.

--------------------------

A few other semi-related points:

First, no-one can earn salvation by legal good works, but only receive it as the free gift of God’s love in Christ (Rom. 3:19–28; Eph. 2:8–9).

Secondly, the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within Christians and writes God’s law in their hearts in letters of love (Heb. 10:16; 2 Cor. 3:1–6).

Thirdly, people’s rebellious hearts, convicted of sin through the commandments, are transformed by God’s love and begin to see the law as good, the expression of God’s loving will for human life and blessing and a framework for loving relationships. Hence they begin to delight inwardly in them (Rom. 7:7–8:8; 13:8–10; Jas. 2:8–13). Fourthly, while not despising, but rather respecting, the letter of God’s commands in the law, the Christian is taught by Christ to look beyond the letter to the intention and spirit behind them, and to seek to apply those underlying principles of total love for God and others in every situation (Mt. 22:34–40; 23:23–24).

But the whole basis of his or her life (its security, motivation, dynamic and pattern) is not law, but grace—God’s agapē ‘poured out … into our hearts by the Holy Spirit’ (Rom. 5:5)—which sets people free to fulfill God's will (not to be confused with your own best thinking and feelings) in the obedience of faith (Rom. 5:5–8; 6:14; 7:6; Gal. 5:1, 13–25).

your sister is doing this out of love, and for money. It is that simple. If her main reason is love, i am for it. Some children should not be in some heterosexual families. It is best not to judge, Just love.
 
C

chuinchoy

Guest
#15
I just wonder how can a child grow up emotionally healthy when their parent is homosexual?
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#16
I just wonder how can a child grow up emotionally healthy when their parent is homosexual?
Well, assuming the parent is otherwise a good parent: Better than one growing up with parents that teach them to hate/ fear.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#17
Glad I could be of assistance. Feel free to ask me for correction anytime. I promise to never send you a bill.

The right thing to do would be for her to keep the child and raise it in a moral godly environment or give the child up for adoption to a Christian couple (e.g. 1 male + 1 female) that may or may not have children already.

Be sure to look at my post dealing with the topic of agape love and God's law a little higher in this thread. They go together. It is a mark of immaturity to ask for God's blessing on activities that don't align with His expressed will (e.g. scripture).

Ask youself this, why would a holy God who loves you so much that He sent His only son to die a criminal's death to atone for sin assist you in your enablement of great sinful immorality?

At what point do all of you begin to see your own immaturity?






Well, thank you, most-recent-three-commenters for being 100% disrespectful and completely slapping what I said in the face... I didn't want ot discuss their sexuality because of people like you all. My sister made a choice to bring a life into the world for a couple. I wanted to know people's opinions on that. I only mentioned the genders of the parents because I figured, as adults, you could all be mature. I was incorrect, and I apologize.
 
Q

quakerzen

Guest
#18
Glad I could be of assistance. Feel free to ask me for correction anytime. I promise to never send you a bill.

The right thing to do would be for her to keep the child and raise it in a moral godly environment or give the child up for adoption to a Christian couple (e.g. 1 male + 1 female) that may or may not have children already.

Be sure to look at my post dealing with the topic of agape love and God's law a little higher in this thread. They go together. It is a mark of immaturity to ask for God's blessing on activities that don't align with His expressed will (e.g. scripture).

Ask youself this, why would a holy God who loves you so much that He sent His only son to die a criminal's death to atone for sin assist you in your enablement of great sinful immorality?

At what point do all of you begin to see your own immaturity?

Notice, I SPECIFICALLY didn't want to talk about the sexuality of the fathers because you and people like you are extremely immature and can't have a conversation about child birth without talking about sexual sin. I asked a specific theological question and other people answered it.

Also, I'm a New Testament kind of guy. And no where in the New Testament does it even mention homosexuality in a way that talks about consenting adults who love each other and not pagan Temple prostitutes or rape (Romans 1.) In the original Greek, there are words for homosexuality and same-sex attraction. those words were purposely not used because Paul was talking about sins of having sex with oracles of Roman gods to "commune" with the deities they believe in. So I don't believe God had anything bad to say about gay marriage as it exists today. The story of Lot was because those crazy people tried to RAPE angels, not have consensual sex with them. And Leviticus was filled with laws for Jews at that time in that place.

Your disgust with the gay parents of my sister's baby is your own, not God's. People like you are the reason kids of gay parents have such a problem in life. If someone was in my ear since I was 6 telling me my parents were evil and I shouldn't be raised by them, I'd probably be crazy, too.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#19
Well the child is gonna have two dads, I'm pretty sure he or she is gonna know a woman had to be involved somewhere. And surrogacy is paid for because the woman is going through the pain of child birth and 9 months of carrying a baby for a couple that can't do that on their own. I think any woman that would do that is very generous and gracious. I honestly can't say (if i were a woman) that I could bring myself to carry a child for someone else. And as far as the parents being a gay couple, they are awesome people. One of them is one of my best family friends and eventually when I have kids, they would be put on my will as someone, other than sister and brother (who is also gay), that would get custody of my kids. They're practicing Episcopalians and I know homosexuality is a very touchy subject for some people, but this couple is just any other couple and they deserve happiness just like you and me, and this kid is gonna have BOSS parents who love him/her just like every child needs.

And my sister is not married to her boyfriend, but either way, it wouldn't have been his child. It's gonna be a surgical procedure, not actual sex.
Like intercessor pointed out... your post is "pregnant" with issues that God clearly has a policy about, yet you expect us to overlook them. Basically what is going on here... is this woman is "leasing out" her body to "manufacture" a baby for a "couple" who could NEVER obtain one by natural means... we do live in a capiliastic society... in this case... as far a I am concerned it is HUMAN TRAFFICING. No matter the flowery language you use to depict it. Being concerned about whether she remains technically "VIRGINAL" is utter nonsense. God is not mocked... EVER.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#20
The devil has deceived you.

It is important to understand that the Bible does not condone a "lifestyle" of "homosexuality," but rather speaks directly to "homosexual behavior" or "homosexual acts." Homosexuality as an "identity" is a modern non-biblical construction.​

Leviticus 18:22 proscribes the act of a male lying with another male, classifying it as an "abomination" or "detestable thing." The Hebrew word comes from the root "to abhor," and the image emphasizes both ritually and ethically God’s call to reject such behaviors.​

Leviticus 18 also includes commands against incest, adultery, sacrificing children to Molech and intercourse with animals as similar examples of "defilement" of God’s land and people. The chapter’s concluding warning entails imagery of the land spewing out those who have made it unclean with their abominations... homosexuality being among them.​

Under the overarching figure of "bloodguiltiness" (that persons are responsible for their own death), Leviticus 20 commands the death penalty for various sexual immoralities, including the "abomination" of males lying together. The images of defilement, land spewing out uncleanness and bloodguiltiness are particularly strong in this section of Leviticus that modern scholars have named the "Holiness Code" (Lev 17–26).​

Similarly, when Paul uses the image of not inheriting the kingdom of God to describe ten kinds of "unrighteous" people (1 Cor 6:9–10), he includes malakoi (the "soft" or passive participants in homosexual acts) and arsenokoitai (the active instigators-a graphic term for "those who perform male coitus") as well as thieves, drunkards and the covetous. Likewise, 1 Timothy 1:9–10 adds arsenokoitai to liars and perjurers in listing more than a dozen "rebellious" types for whom the law is made. The point being made here is that we, as Christians, are being prepared for heaven and these activities simply will not be permitted there nor people who refuse to repent from them allowed in.

This image insists that everyone needs the law (for we have all sinned against God) and drives us to the gospel announced in 1 Timothy 1:9–11.​

The most important imagery for homosexual acts is the language in Romans 1 of "exchanging" God’s purposes and of God letting go. Some dishonored God by substituting idols for God; therefore, God "gave them up" to their own lusts (Rom 1:18–25). Others God "gave up" to their depravities, such as envy, gossip and arrogance. Romans 1:26–27 declare that God gave over to their degrading passions both women and men who "exchanged" natural functions for unnatural. These three image sets are examples of warning, for Romans 2:1 insists that everyone is without excuse since all practice such rebellion against God.​

While references to homosexual acts are limited in Scripture, they become a powerful image for those who in their blindness have given up God’s good gift of healthy sexuality and have exchanged it for something degrading and unnatural. Homosexual acts become a symbol in Scripture for violating a basic principle of holiness: mixing that which the Lord declared should be separate.​

Understand that the Roman verses contain one of the very earliest combined condemnations of female and male homosexuality alike. Only two earlier texts make the link (Plato Laws I.636c; Pseud.-Phoc. Sentences 191–92). The fact that he condemns both female and male homosexuality along with pedastry, makes his statement generic.

In Rom. 1 Paul condemns homosexual acts, lesbian as well as male, in the same breath as idolatry (vv. 23–27), but his theological canvas is broader than that of Lv. Instead of treating homosexual behaviour as an expression of idolatrous worship, he traces both to the bad ‘exchange’ fallen man has made in departing from his Creator’s intention (vv. 25f.). Seen from this angle, every homosexual act is unnatural (para physin, v. 26), not because it cuts across the individual’s natural sexual orientation (which, of course, it may not) or infringes OT law (contra McNeill), but because it flies in the face of God’s creation scheme for human sexual expression.

It is one thing to repent and become a Christian in recovery/sanctification struggling with sin issues in their life. This is the condition many Christians find themselves in. Perhaps all, to some extent. These are born-again and have aligned themselves with God in truth.

It is entirely another thing to justify one's sin as normal and refuse to repent aligning themselves with ungodliness in rebellion to God twisting His Word to "justify" it.


Notice, I SPECIFICALLY didn't want to talk about the sexuality of the fathers because you and people like you are extremely immature and can't have a conversation about child birth without talking about sexual sin. I asked a specific theological question and other people answered it.

Also, I'm a New Testament kind of guy. And no where in the New Testament does it even mention homosexuality in a way that talks about consenting adults who love each other and not pagan Temple prostitutes or rape (Romans 1.) In the original Greek, there are words for homosexuality and same-sex attraction. those words were purposely not used because Paul was talking about sins of having sex with oracles of Roman gods to "commune" with the deities they believe in. So I don't believe God had anything bad to say about gay marriage as it exists today. The story of Lot was because those crazy people tried to RAPE angels, not have consensual sex with them. And Leviticus was filled with laws for Jews at that time in that place.

Your disgust with the gay parents of my sister's baby is your own, not God's. People like you are the reason kids of gay parents have such a problem in life. If someone was in my ear since I was 6 telling me my parents were evil and I shouldn't be raised by them, I'd probably be crazy, too.
 
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