A local pastors advice troubles me...

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May 23, 2020
1,558
310
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#21
Hello good people of CC

It is only very recently that my faith is building real strength and understanding, for this I am truly grateful to the Lord.

I was having a phone conversation with the pastor at the church I briefly attended this year and he recommended some Christian music to listen to.
I’m a musician and love music but stopped listening to the stuff I used to because of corrupt messages etc...

One of the recommendations was Kanye West new album because it is apparently worship and he’s turned Christian. I think this is BLATANTLY not true and Kanye West is deceiving people.

He seems to believe that it’s acceptable to listen to and watch basically anything but I strongly believe against that.

Any opinions, advice on how to approach this matter would be greatly appreciated.

God Bless.
I would not say anything but not listen to the music. Try Esther Mui instead.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,004
1,637
113
#22
@Mii
I didn't say it was weak to listen to Christian music. I was pointing out that Some Christians who are weak and only listen to Christian music, and Some strong Christians listen to all kinds.
The point was that the strength of a persons walk and relationship to God isn't reflected in the music they listen to.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,004
1,637
113
#23
First of all i haven’t tried to “work out his salvation” that’s ridiculous.
Where in my post did I state that my conviction is the only right answer?

How did you determine these people were as you put it “weak Christians”

Plus see my last post before this and if you haven’t already.
Because your post is about telling a person whose taste in music you didagree with how they are wrong. That's the point of your post. So that's where you stated it. By starting this thread. If you need further clarification...

"He seems to believe that it’s acceptable to listen to and watch basically anything but I strongly believe against that.

Any opinions, advice on how to approach this matter would be greatly appreciated."

Well it Wasn't by disagreeing with their musical tastes.
 
Feb 10, 2020
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#24
This is turning into a pointless argument and that wasn’t my intention.

I wish you all the best.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,252
864
113
#25
Hi there,

Yes my point was that I’ve seen various things glaringly wrong with Kanye West and thought maybe a pastor shouldn’t recommend such people.

To assume I’ve tried to judge a pastors salvation who has been a Christian for a LOT longer than I have is simply wrong.

I was wrong to judge at all, I have acknowledged that in this thread and prayed to the Lord for forgiveness and guidance on the issue.

I’m going to really start looking for good Christian music this week as I really do miss music in general! Any suggestions welcome :)
Well, If you'd like I can PM you some scriptures about judgement. It takes me a bit of time, so I'm not going to do it here because judgements are a difficult topic and this isn't the thread.

Suffice it to say, there IS a proper application, but there are MANY improper applications in our flesh.



To be brief what my conclusions have been. Take care not to judge the "sum" of a person. Take care not to point out a minor thing from a position of self-righteousness when none of us are righteous on our own merit. If it is coming from something in your spirit, with all due diligence, pray and ensure that it is in agreement with the Lord's Spirit as well.

There is such a thing as righteous judgement just like righteous anger, but if we are all being honest...it sounds incredibly arrogant to say that when we are angry it is always righteous anger, because we still sin.

Also bear in mind that it could simply be "not for you" but this doesn't mean that certain music can't lead someone to the Lord. He uses tons of stuff that I wouldn't ever recommend, and don't feel I should...but everyone's journey toward him is different and everyone works out their salvation differently.

Note though: I don't believe it's the music itself that does the leading and I think that's the pitfall more than a few fall into. The LORD does the leading and uses many things, however, just because he uses something doesn't make it alright.

It could be that at the club one night listening to EDM at an orgiastic rave that someone becomes open to the gospel, but that doesn't mean that one should point people to that just because of one person's experience. Make sense?


So regarding your first post, I have no idea. Do your research and follow your own insight and of course continue to bring that before the Lord. I'm sure many here will be glad to help further on down the way.






As to music. It sort of depends on your tastes. The 1990s was my golden era for Christian music. It blended old and "olde" stuff and didn't get into anything that anyone would specifically "call out" for the most part.

If I just want peaceful meditative music that is more of a "mood" of worship than anything verbal...I'd check out Bach. A good bit of classical is music for music's sake. It's pretty neutral and allows you to sort of make your own experience.

You still have to exercise discernment with classical as well and I would advise you to research the composer before listening. Some pieces for some composers and why they were composed have NO fellowship with light. These are rare though. Personally I'd go with Bach and Handel and see if it ministers to you as they wrote a lot and there is enough depth in the pieces to re-listen to many times over the years.

There's also some pretty neutral stuff in switchfoot, relient K, etc. If you just want some music for the sake of it.

Anyway, getting long (again). What type of music do you like?
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,252
864
113
#26
@Mii
I didn't say it was weak to listen to Christian music. I was pointing out that Some Christians who are weak and only listen to Christian music, and Some strong Christians listen to all kinds.
The point was that the strength of a persons walk and relationship to God isn't reflected in the music they listen to.
Ah, gotcha.

I think it is a reflection, but in a way that would be so subjective to their own unique relationship with the Lord that 99/100x (or more) would be unable to be seen by anyone else. It think it is to the Lord, but not in a way we can see. Like unless you were intimately familiar with someone's personal musical journey, you wouldn't be able to tell. I know people that do NOT feel the Lord in metal and some do and like christian metal. Everyone is pretty unique in this area, but I think when push comes to shove and it's important the Lord "can" open your eyes to such a progression.

There is oftentimes no contextual standard by which to measure since music is so broad a category. If there were anything amiss, it would likely manifest in more ways than just music.

You could be very familiar with ICP or Slipknot but that in itself doesn't "say" anything. Except that avoiding the appearance of evil should be considered on one level.

I personally don't regret most music I've listened to, I feel convicted or get bored and move on.

I notice progression in my own life, as well as taste maturation...but that is all rather subjective ;)

I'm not sure why this distinction is important to me, it is not my intention to be exasperating.


Thanks for the reply.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,642
2,754
113
#27
well I remember a pastor recommending to read books by Joel Osteen, which I didnt think were REALLY christian the same way I would be skeptical of Kanye West...bestsellers that are popular but probably just fluff.

I think recommendations are a bit subjective but this kind of disturbed me a little cos he was a pastor, obvioulsy older and supposedly more learned. I dont go to that church anymore and I didnt end up reading any of Joel Osteens books. Sorry Joel.
 
Feb 10, 2020
42
28
18
Scotland
#28
Well, If you'd like I can PM you some scriptures about judgement. It takes me a bit of time, so I'm not going to do it here because judgements are a difficult topic and this isn't the thread.

Suffice it to say, there IS a proper application, but there are MANY improper applications in our flesh.



To be brief what my conclusions have been. Take care not to judge the "sum" of a person. Take care not to point out a minor thing from a position of self-righteousness when none of us are righteous on our own merit. If it is coming from something in your spirit, with all due diligence, pray and ensure that it is in agreement with the Lord's Spirit as well.

There is such a thing as righteous judgement just like righteous anger, but if we are all being honest...it sounds incredibly arrogant to say that when we are angry it is always righteous anger, because we still sin.

Also bear in mind that it could simply be "not for you" but this doesn't mean that certain music can't lead someone to the Lord. He uses tons of stuff that I wouldn't ever recommend, and don't feel I should...but everyone's journey toward him is different and everyone works out their salvation differently.

Note though: I don't believe it's the music itself that does the leading and I think that's the pitfall more than a few fall into. The LORD does the leading and uses many things, however, just because he uses something doesn't make it alright.

It could be that at the club one night listening to EDM at an orgiastic rave that someone becomes open to the gospel, but that doesn't mean that one should point people to that just because of one person's experience. Make sense?


So regarding your first post, I have no idea. Do your research and follow your own insight and of course continue to bring that before the Lord. I'm sure many here will be glad to help further on down the way.






As to music. It sort of depends on your tastes. The 1990s was my golden era for Christian music. It blended old and "olde" stuff and didn't get into anything that anyone would specifically "call out" for the most part.

If I just want peaceful meditative music that is more of a "mood" of worship than anything verbal...I'd check out Bach. A good bit of classical is music for music's sake. It's pretty neutral and allows you to sort of make your own experience.

You still have to exercise discernment with classical as well and I would advise you to research the composer before listening. Some pieces for some composers and why they were composed have NO fellowship with light. These are rare though. Personally I'd go with Bach and Handel and see if it ministers to you as they wrote a lot and there is enough depth in the pieces to re-listen to many times over the years.

There's also some pretty neutral stuff in switchfoot, relient K, etc. If you just want some music for the sake of it.

Anyway, getting long (again). What type of music do you like?
Thank you for your replies.

I’m taking this as a lesson learned, my judgmental behaviour was a mistake I need to learn from.
As I’m relatively new to following the Lord and the scriptures, there’s many lessons being learned!

This video I came across the other day sums up my feelings about Kanye Wests intentions:

I used to listen to bands like Radiohead, Interpol, Foals, Nirvana and hundreds more! I lived for music. The occult symbolism disturbs me and I honestly feel better in spirit since I stopped listening to such bands.

I hope to find some good Christian music soon, I’ll check out your recommendations!

Thanks again!
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,252
864
113
#29
Thank you for your replies.

I’m taking this as a lesson learned, my judgmental behaviour was a mistake I need to learn from.
As I’m relatively new to following the Lord and the scriptures, there’s many lessons being learned!

This video I came across the other day sums up my feelings about Kanye Wests intentions:

I used to listen to bands like Radiohead, Interpol, Foals, Nirvana and hundreds more! I lived for music. The occult symbolism disturbs me and I honestly feel better in spirit since I stopped listening to such bands.

I hope to find some good Christian music soon, I’ll check out your recommendations!

Thanks again!
Have you thought about learning an instrument? That's about where I am...I figure that there is a lot of just "music" that I can play for the purpose of self-care and worship depending on where I am that particular day.

My thought applies to classical and EDM but basically, if it's filtered through you and your spirit you ARE the artist, so I'm inclined to think I will feel much better about it vs some random person playing for me that I have to learn the hard way that something is "off".
 
Feb 10, 2020
42
28
18
Scotland
#30
Have you thought about learning an instrument? That's about where I am...I figure that there is a lot of just "music" that I can play for the purpose of self-care and worship depending on where I am that particular day.

My thought applies to classical and EDM but basically, if it's filtered through you and your spirit you ARE the artist, so I'm inclined to think I will feel much better about it vs some random person playing for me that I have to learn the hard way that something is "off".
It’s funny you say that I’m a musician. I play drums and guitar and have also done sound engineering and played other instruments.

Music really was at the centre of my life. I have been thinking about getting a guitar and keyboard and writing my own worship music as I used to write songs all the time in bands I played in.

I was well and truly put off music because I started to really sense the evil behind a lot of it.

I’m going to get a guitar and keyboard again :)
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,252
864
113
#31
Thank you for your replies.

I’m taking this as a lesson learned, my judgmental behaviour was a mistake I need to learn from.
As I’m relatively new to following the Lord and the scriptures, there’s many lessons being learned!

This video I came across the other day sums up my feelings about Kanye Wests intentions:

I used to listen to bands like Radiohead, Interpol, Foals, Nirvana and hundreds more! I lived for music. The occult symbolism disturbs me and I honestly feel better in spirit since I stopped listening to such bands.

I hope to find some good Christian music soon, I’ll check out your recommendations!

Thanks again!
Oh can you point out what in that video was about him? I listened to a large percentage after the 2 min mark (which seemed like intro) and I didn't really hear anything.


but yeah as to secular music. There is some that's just "music" but a lot of song lyrics are unscriptural...even if it's in a super minor way, it's still annoying. So also there's the background of the musician. You are correct that there is a spirit behind most music today that is sort of antithetical for a believer's walk.

That stuff may not matter to some, but it matters to me. Even a good bit of "christian" music hits me the same way, but I do know a little bit about the industry and it's somewhat similar to country music, meaning a portion of it is scripted. There is legitimate stuff out there certainly though, but it's rare to see a "band" of strong believers playing music together. You gotta look back a ways, but there are some still around.

I've been pretty blessed by going to rural areas and find what some would call "relics" of the past, but there is definitely still some purity still around, you just have to look for it and pray.

Of course, on a practical level...we all have different tastes in music and that has to be reconciled in some way person to person.

That's great that you don't have to learn an instrument in order to play. Music is powerful, it doesn't have to be evil...

There are some dark and brooding pieces of music that are instrumental that I don't find "evil" kind of like David's psalms but I've only found that in classical/soundtracks/electronica. Not too common, but there are times when that suits my mood.



There are islands in the sea of music that I think the Lord's presence inhabits...don't get discouraged :)
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
3,509
1,249
113
#32
It doesn't matter if Kanye is Christian or not, you are most likely right, but if something isn't edifying to you and your conscience feels wrong about it, then don't do that, no matter what ANYONE said.
I am surprised that for this pastor, a recently converted celeb, and debatably so, is the worship music to go to. There might be other red flags. I'd be wary of his advice if I were you and take what he says with a grain of salt...

You may check out my music channel if you like (linked in my sig), not sure what kind of music you're into but each song is a completely different genre, and almost all songs are Psalms from the Bible put to music. It's not monetized (I forbade ads when channel was made but I hear recently that Youtube places sometimes against creators' will, so if ads appear its not my doing, just saying).
 
Feb 10, 2020
42
28
18
Scotland
#33
Oh can you point out what in that video was about him? I listened to a large percentage after the 2 min mark (which seemed like intro) and I didn't really hear anything.


but yeah as to secular music. There is some that's just "music" but a lot of song lyrics are unscriptural...even if it's in a super minor way, it's still annoying. So also there's the background of the musician. You are correct that there is a spirit behind most music today that is sort of antithetical for a believer's walk.

That stuff may not matter to some, but it matters to me. Even a good bit of "christian" music hits me the same way, but I do know a little bit about the industry and it's somewhat similar to country music, meaning a portion of it is scripted. There is legitimate stuff out there certainly though, but it's rare to see a "band" of strong believers playing music together. You gotta look back a ways, but there are some still around.

I've been pretty blessed by going to rural areas and find what some would call "relics" of the past, but there is definitely still some purity still around, you just have to look for it and pray.

Of course, on a practical level...we all have different tastes in music and that has to be reconciled in some way person to person.

That's great that you don't have to learn an instrument in order to play. Music is powerful, it doesn't have to be evil...

There are some dark and brooding pieces of music that are instrumental that I don't find "evil" kind of like David's psalms but I've only found that in classical/soundtracks/electronica. Not too common, but there are times when that suits my mood.



There are islands in the sea of music that I think the Lord's presence inhabits...don't get discouraged :)
That video more focuses on the awaken movement in which Kanye West is a HUGE part in. As you see in the video this is an anti-Christ movement.

Here is a link to a video that is just about Kanye West. I’ll add that I don’t agree with everything in this video, but she makes some very valid points:

Also here are a few articles which should ring alarm bells for any follower of Christ...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/vari...d-musician-celebrities-forbes-1234625689/amp/

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/entertainment/celebrity/kanye-west-says-hes-a-god/ar-BBNP7lT

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....est-in-book-of-yeezus-bible-10157263.html?amp

And to those who will claim I am judging...

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
 
Feb 10, 2020
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18
Scotland
#34
It doesn't matter if Kanye is Christian or not, you are most likely right, but if something isn't edifying to you and your conscience feels wrong about it, then don't do that, no matter what ANYONE said.
I am surprised that for this pastor, a recently converted celeb, and debatably so, is the worship music to go to. There might be other red flags. I'd be wary of his advice if I were you and take what he says with a grain of salt...

You may check out my music channel if you like (linked in my sig), not sure what kind of music you're into but each song is a completely different genre, and almost all songs are Psalms from the Bible put to music. It's not monetized (I forbade ads when channel was made but I hear recently that Youtube places sometimes against creators' will, so if ads appear its not my doing, just saying).
Hi there,

I completely agree with what you’re saying. He recommended a few artists and Kanye West last of all.
As soon as I read Kanye West I was shocked and felt very uneasy in general, strange feeling.

I guess that was my original point and I should have worded it better!

I’ll check out your channel, thanks :)
 
May 23, 2020
1,558
310
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#35
It’s funny you say that I’m a musician. I play drums and guitar and have also done sound engineering and played other instruments.

Music really was at the centre of my life. I have been thinking about getting a guitar and keyboard and writing my own worship music as I used to write songs all the time in bands I played in.

I was well and truly put off music because I started to really sense the evil behind a lot of it.

I’m going to get a guitar and keyboard again :)
If you want to bring Him glory and edify others, use the scripture as text. Not one line and make up the rest but all of a passage. And try not to speak about you as do many of Hillsong and company do. They claim they praise God but really the one singing is the subject. Avoid “I” and “me” in a song or two. Make it about Him and just Him for a blessing to others and not the ego.
 
Feb 10, 2020
42
28
18
Scotland
#36
If you want to bring Him glory and edify others, use the scripture as text. Not one line and make up the rest but all of a passage. And try not to speak about you as do many of Hillsong and company do. They claim they praise God but really the one singing is the subject. Avoid “I” and “me” in a song or two. Make it about Him and just Him for a blessing to others and not the ego.
I will do that.

You actually answered quite an important question! I was wondering if it was ok to use passages straight from scripture in songs or not.

Thank you.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#37
Hello good people of CC

It is only very recently that my faith is building real strength and understanding, for this I am truly grateful to the Lord.

I was having a phone conversation with the pastor at the church I briefly attended this year and he recommended some Christian music to listen to.
I’m a musician and love music but stopped listening to the stuff I used to because of corrupt messages etc...

One of the recommendations was Kanye West new album because it is apparently worship and he’s turned Christian. I think this is BLATANTLY not true and Kanye West is deceiving people.

He seems to believe that it’s acceptable to listen to and watch basically anything but I strongly believe against that.

Any opinions, advice on how to approach this matter would be greatly appreciated.

God Bless.
These may help you:

 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
396
324
63
#38
Hello good people of CC

It is only very recently that my faith is building real strength and understanding, for this I am truly grateful to the Lord.

I was having a phone conversation with the pastor at the church I briefly attended this year and he recommended some Christian music to listen to.
I’m a musician and love music but stopped listening to the stuff I used to because of corrupt messages etc...

One of the recommendations was Kanye West new album because it is apparently worship and he’s turned Christian. I think this is BLATANTLY not true and Kanye West is deceiving people.

He seems to believe that it’s acceptable to listen to and watch basically anything but I strongly believe against that.

Any opinions, advice on how to approach this matter would be greatly appreciated.

God Bless.
Kanye Spent his entire life following a corrupt world, but now he is a Christian. The accumulated baggage and life decisions he made as a world-famous rapper living a worldly lifestyle don't just instantly evaporate the moment he believed in Christ.

He has, however, made great strides to entirely change the message of his song lyrics which are now like gospel music lyrics, I understand. He also has millions of fans and is now using his soap box to spread the gospel to them who are eagerly awaiting his valuable perspectives. Kanye West will bring a lot of people to Christ, glory to God.

He also has a ministry of preaching the gospel in prisons and distributing Bibles. If openly professing faith in Christ, showing a changed lifestyle, and fulfilling the great commission aren't Christian (as some people in this thread seem to be asserting) then what is?

Anyway, I wouldn't let one pastor's advice to listen to West's music trouble you. I don't listen to West either, but wouldn't be opposed or troubled by it.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#39
Hello good people of CC

It is only very recently that my faith is building real strength and understanding, for this I am truly grateful to the Lord.

I was having a phone conversation with the pastor at the church I briefly attended this year and he recommended some Christian music to listen to.
I’m a musician and love music but stopped listening to the stuff I used to because of corrupt messages etc...

One of the recommendations was Kanye West new album because it is apparently worship and he’s turned Christian. I think this is BLATANTLY not true and Kanye West is deceiving people.

He seems to believe that it’s acceptable to listen to and watch basically anything but I strongly believe against that.

Any opinions, advice on how to approach this matter would be greatly appreciated.

God Bless.
This may also benefit you: http://supernaturalresources.epizy.com/musical-masterpieces-inspired-inspiring/?i=1
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
827
113
43
#40