Age of Marriage

[Beckie]

So the Pharisee thinks these kids should get married to avoid the sin of adultery. The Pharisee is making a judgement with out knowing if either of the kids have had other sex partners . IF there are other sex partners then not only is there fornication but now adultery. No wonder Jesus call the Pharisees vipers.

Parents , church , society failed the kids of this thread.

If the sex act alone is what makes male and female one then any molested child is doomed to to sin or celibacy.

A few words from Jesus... around sex sins
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

[kaylagrl]

No, I think we have churches because we are sinners who need each other to be a complete body of Christ. I think we have marriage ceremonies so that our oaths can be recorded and heard, and celebrated into sustaining care, by the members of the church. I think, as members of churches, we have to decide who is, and who isn't, allowed to join us, and who is, and who isn't, in need of our collective assistance.

Well so far the "collective assistance" has come forward with the idea of abortion. So I'd say the family doesn't need that type of "help". Pretty sure they can handle this better on their own.

 

[apwall21]

So the Pharisee thinks these kids should get married to avoid the sin of adultery.

Am I to tell these young people to be celibate for the rest of their lives? That is an option, but unrealistic, since they have already proven themselves uncapable of controlling themselves when inflamed. Plus, there is no reason I can see for them not to get married and avoid further sin here all together.

If the sex act alone is what makes male and female one then any molested child is doomed to to sin or celibacy.

This reads to me like you view the Law as the thing to follow. Under the old codes, that's exactly what you'd be condemning the person to, yes. That shouldn't shock anyone, two becoming one flesh is beyond the will, it is inherent in the act.

A few words from Jesus... around sex sins
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Am I to tell these young people to be celibate for the rest of their lives? That is an option, but unrealistic, since they have already proven themselves uncapable of controlling themselves when inflamed.

 

[Live4Him3]

Yeah, that's teaching them responsibility, abort the evidence. smh Can't believe... no, no I can, that people would look the other way and allow that to be the choice.

IMO the family needs to PRIVATELY go to the pastor or counseling and prayerfully consider what is best to do in this situation. These youngsters need to understand the consequences of what they have done and how this will change their lives and the life of this child. I have seen adoptions in these situations, I have seen couples that have kept the child. Neither is an easy solution. It's all made much harder when people gossip instead pray for the families as they make a very difficult decision.

But that's the point.

Whoever said that the Christian life is "easy"?

Certainly not Jesus, the apostles, or any of the prophets (excluding any false ones).

I once saw a hand-made sign attached to a tree out here in Pennsylvania that read as follows:

Jesus
Others
You

How about we consider what is best in God's/Jesus' eyes, first and foremost?

How about we then consider what is best for others instead of thinking on what is best for us?

In this particular case, the "other" would be the child.

Again, let's stop fantasizing that something like adoption is a better solution.

Do you know any adopted people?

I do.

In fact, my oldest niece was adopted by my oldest brother, and if you think that she hasn't dealt with issues of rejection and abandonment for her entire life, then you're greatly mistaken.

 

[Live4Him3]

But there's a difference between bearing one another's burdens and expecting the church to pay your traffic fines.

"Traffic fines" are not the issue, John.

The issue is A CHILD.

If people don't WILLFULLY DESIRE to do what's best for A CHILD, then they're not only not Christians, but I doubt that they're even human beings.

 

[JohnDB]

Yeah, that's teaching them responsibility, abort the evidence. smh Can't believe... no, no I can, that people would look the other way and allow that to be the choice.

IMO the family needs to PRIVATELY go to the pastor or counseling and prayerfully consider what is best to do in this situation. These youngsters need to understand the consequences of what they have done and how this will change their lives and the life of this child. I have seen adoptions in these situations, I have seen couples that have kept the child. Neither is an easy solution. It's all made much harder when people gossip instead pray for the families as they make a very difficult decision.

Completely agree that the fecal material is heading directly for the oscillating air handling device.
Gonna spray on everyone.

And since the church, teen's parents, and teens have failed how is the capability of counseling correctly going to magically happen here? No one has done so up to this point.

I don't see success in the future. The track record is perfect and horrible.

Which is why I'm suggesting outside help is needed...and not counseling that suggests abortion either.

Adoption is a possibility...
So is a restraining order for the teen father. So is military boarding school.

All kinds of outside help is highly suggested here.

 

[JohnDB]

"Traffic fines" are not the issue, John.

The issue is A CHILD.

If people don't WILLFULLY DESIRE to do what's best for A CHILD, then they're not only not Christians, but I doubt that they're even human beings.

Well that's the point.

The teens want to play house with baby and demand that everyone support them financially. These children don't even have sufficient years to hold a part time job. They are under 15.

That's the whole issue.

 

[Polar]

Completely agree that the fecal material is heading directly for the oscillating air handling device.
Gonna spray on everyone.

And since the church, teen's parents, and teens have failed how is the capability of counseling correctly going to magically happen here? No one has done so up to this point.

I don't see success in the future. The track record is perfect and horrible.

Which is why I'm suggesting outside help is needed...and not counseling that suggests abortion either.

Adoption is a possibility...
So is a restraining order for the teen father. So is military boarding school.

All kinds of outside help is highly suggested here.

I don't know if I missed it, but I don't think so. It seems the only one who mentioned abortion is the op and he states that some in his church might agree to that, but obviously he does not.

for some reason though, abortion has been brought up a number of times. It's no wonder the thread is on fire.

 

[Polar]

The teens want to play house with baby and demand that everyone support them financially. These children don't even have sufficient years to hold a part time job. They are under 15.

But do they?

I may have missed that also, but have we actually read what they want or just what others want for them?

 

[apwall21]

In this particular case, the "other" would be the child.

I think the other includes those who I have to become adjusted toward when they change the expectations I have of having neighbors. Turns out, my church has sinners in it, and they can't all buy the BMW for 2023.
]

Completely agree that the fecal material is heading directly for the oscillating air handling device.
Gonna spray on everyone.

Good heavens, A child is fecal matter? (parents of infants, don't answer that!)
Ladies and Gentleman, a baby is a young human, made in the image of God. God himself gave us this offspring capability, and named it GOOD.

Please stop giving it the equivalent outcome of a slasher movie midpoint?

 

[kaylagrl]

But that's the point.

Whoever said that the Christian life is "easy"?

Certainly not Jesus, the apostles, or any of the prophets (excluding any false ones).

I once saw a hand-made sign attached to a tree out here in Pennsylvania that read as follows:

Jesus
Others
You

How about we consider what is best in God's/Jesus' eyes, first and foremost?

How about we then consider what is best for others instead of thinking on what is best for us?

In this particular case, the "other" would be the child.

Again, let's stop fantasizing that something like adoption is a better solution.

Do you know any adopted people?

I do.

In fact, my oldest niece was adopted by my oldest brother, and if you think that she hasn't dealt with issues of rejection and abandonment for her entire life, then you're greatly mistaken.

Yes. We have more than one adopted child in our family. I don't see it as a "better" option but compared to abortion, you better believe it. But I have also known couples that keep the child. An that's not an "easy" solution either when the child is told " you were a mistake, we just stayed together because of you, we weren't really in love" that hurts too. That also causes feelings of rejection and abandonment. When there has been a failure every decision will have consequences. For the child, for the parents, for the families, for the church. That is why there needs to be open discussion with pre-teen and teens about the consequences of sex before marriage.

 

[apwall21]

Well that's the point.

The teens want to play house with baby and demand that everyone support them financially. These children don't even have sufficient years to hold a part time job. They are under 15.

That's the whole issue.

Now wait, that's not because they literally cannot work. That's because in most jurisdictions, we've allowed people to tell us they aren't capable.
You yourself, just a few posts earlier, said that you believed Mary could have gotten away with raising Jesus because The Community Trained, Expected, and Supported her? (honestly, not sure how they got support in Egypt, but...)

 

[JohnDB]

I think the other includes those who I have to become adjusted toward when they change the expectations I have of having neighbors. Turns out, my church has sinners in it, and they can't all buy the BMW for 2023.
]

Good heavens, A child is fecal matter? (parents of infants, don't answer that!)
Ladies and Gentleman, a baby is a young human, made in the image of God. God himself gave us this offspring capability, and named it GOOD.

Please stop giving it the equivalent outcome of a slasher movie midpoint?

Babies raising babies is a disaster in case you have not realized that yet.

Ever read the book Lord of the Flies? Now add a baby to the story line and its going to be the future for this infant. It's very much the focus of everyone.

The teen parents? These oversized juveniles? Their future is an almost given at this point.

 

[Live4Him3]

I don't see success in the future. The track record is perfect and horrible.

Poor beginnings don't necessitate poor endings, John.

For example, have you ever read Jesus' genealogy?

Matthew chapter 1

1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Jesus' natural descent includes sexual relations between Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar.

There are also many who believe that the "Rahab" who is mentioned is Rahab the harlot.

Just saying.

 

[apwall21]

The teen parents? These oversized juveniles? Their future is an almost given at this point.

Biologically adult. 200 years ago, this would have been irrelevant, because they would have been married already, or engaged. So what changed?

 

[Live4Him3]

Well that's the point.

The teens want to play house with baby and demand that everyone support them financially. These children don't even have sufficient years to hold a part time job. They are under 15.

That's the whole issue.

Why do you keep using the word "demand"?

 

[Polar]

Well again, males were not considered to be men in biblical times until they reached the age of 20.

18 and on the first day of the second month, they assembled the whole congregation together, who registered themselves by clans, by fathers’ houses, according to the number of names from twenty years old and upward, head by head, Numbers 1:18

That, is actually in the Bible and is handily ignored. Big difference in a 14 and 20 year old male.

 

[Live4Him3]

Yes. We have more than one adopted child in our family. I don't see it as a "better" option but compared to abortion, you better believe it. But I have also known couples that keep the child. An that's not an "easy" solution either when the child is told " you were a mistake, we just stayed together because of you, we weren't really in love" that hurts too. That also causes feelings of rejection and abandonment. When there has been a failure every decision will have consequences. For the child, for the parents, for the families, for the church. That is why there needs to be open discussion with pre-teen and teens about the consequences of sex before marriage.

Well, your comment reminded me of something rather troubling/unpleasant.

Not too long ago, my oldest daughter told me that her mother (my ex) told her that she was "a mistake". She also told her "condoms break".

Well, that devastated my daughter, and, even worse, it's an absolute lie. For one thing, my ex and I didn't even use condoms or any sort of birth control, but what type of SICK, SICK WOMAN would say such a thing to her own child?

Just another reminder of how evil my ex was (and still is).

 

[apwall21]

Yes. We have more than one adopted child in our family. I don't see it as a "better" option but compared to abortion, you better believe it. But I have also known couples that keep the child. An that's not an "easy" solution either when the child is told " you were a mistake, we just stayed together because of you, we weren't really in love" that hurts too. That also causes feelings of rejection and abandonment.

Note to parents, DON'T SAY THAT. Besides, it's not just the Child for which they must stay. It's their own future sins avoided. They are staying together to honor God, each other, their child, AND themselves.

every decision will have consequences

 

[Live4Him3]

Well again, males were not considered to be men in biblical times until they reached the age of 20.

18 and on the first day of the second month, they assembled the whole congregation together, who registered themselves by clans, by fathers’ houses, according to the number of names from twenty years old and upward, head by head, Numbers 1:18

That, is actually in the Bible and is handily ignored. Big difference in a 14 and 20 year old male.

Oh, please.

Here's the context:

Numbers chapter 1

[1] And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying,
[2] Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls;
[3] From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

This was the equivalent of a MILITARY DRAFT, so don't wrest the scriptures on my account.

Thanks.