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Your first mistake is to assume that I'm not married.
And yes, my wife and I would have abstained. Should have, considering we weren't married when we had our daughter. Nonetheless, if we did not want children right away, we would have asked G-d if it was His Will for us to wait or for us to have children. If He said wait, abstain we would.
And yes, my wife and I would have abstained. Should have, considering we weren't married when we had our daughter. Nonetheless, if we did not want children right away, we would have asked G-d if it was His Will for us to wait or for us to have children. If He said wait, abstain we would.
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I never assumed anyone in particular was married, I just happen to know for a fact that some people on this thread ARE NOT, and they are the ones with the most vocal opinions.
Riiight sure. So what if God said to you 'It is not my will for you to have children for another ten years yet?' You honestly expect me to believe that you would get married and then NEVER have sex for the first 10 years. Get real!
God commands us to wait until we are married, before we become physically intimate, surely he doesn't expect us to then wait another 10 years until HE is ready for us to have children. In fact, the scriptures say 'for this reason a man shall leave his parents and unite with his wife and the two shall BECOME ONE FLESH'. Yeah, that's referring to physical intimacy right there. God designed sex, He wants us to ENJOY it (within the realms of marriage of course) it's not some menial task he created for us to do just to procreate.
Riiight sure. So what if God said to you 'It is not my will for you to have children for another ten years yet?' You honestly expect me to believe that you would get married and then NEVER have sex for the first 10 years. Get real!
God commands us to wait until we are married, before we become physically intimate, surely he doesn't expect us to then wait another 10 years until HE is ready for us to have children. In fact, the scriptures say 'for this reason a man shall leave his parents and unite with his wife and the two shall BECOME ONE FLESH'. Yeah, that's referring to physical intimacy right there. God designed sex, He wants us to ENJOY it (within the realms of marriage of course) it's not some menial task he created for us to do just to procreate.
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I'm not judging anyone, I'm simply asking what you would do and find it incredibly hard to believe.
I never judged you and said it was wrong, hey if abstaining for 10 years until you have children is what floats your boat, then go for it. It's just not realistic.
I don't judge, I just find it a notion difficult to comprehend, but each to their own!
I never judged you and said it was wrong, hey if abstaining for 10 years until you have children is what floats your boat, then go for it. It's just not realistic.
I don't judge, I just find it a notion difficult to comprehend, but each to their own!
L
I never said it was solely for procreation. Hello, I am the one who follows Jewish beliefs, and Jews put greater importance on sex between spouses for pleasure than Christians do. That being said, I have pointed out a few times already that marriage is not solely about sex.
And in the case of not having children for another 10 years, there is two possible solutions to that edict given by God. Either he will make the said woman barren for ten years, in which case she can partake in sexual activities regardless. Or the woman won't marry.
It has happened before where someone had to got 14 years without having sex with the woman he loved, and because he loved her so much those years flew by. Now what was the name of that man... Jacob. ringing any bells?
And in the case of not having children for another 10 years, there is two possible solutions to that edict given by God. Either he will make the said woman barren for ten years, in which case she can partake in sexual activities regardless. Or the woman won't marry.
It has happened before where someone had to got 14 years without having sex with the woman he loved, and because he loved her so much those years flew by. Now what was the name of that man... Jacob. ringing any bells?
L
Correct, you are talking about birth control. An issue that predominately (notice I didn't say only) but predominately affects MARRIED COUPLES.
I really wonder if you will change your mind once you get married, and have a better understanding. I guess only time will tell
I really wonder if you will change your mind once you get married, and have a better understanding. I guess only time will tell
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Well I know numerous people who have been married for 5 years, or 7 years or 10 years and don't yet have children.
God didn't make the woman barren, and she is indeed married - so clearly that is wrong.
And I'm sorry you took it as a judgement. I was just so amazed by the concept of 'NEVER' having sex unless you want children. So 'GET REAL' was like my statement of shock /disbelief. But hey, whatever works for you is fine by me. It's none of my business.
Just as many people here have claimed that to them personally it seems 'unnatural' for one to NEVER want children. Well, to me, it seems 'unnatural' to get married then ONLY have sex in order to have children
Oh and FYI I have been married for 5 years, we don't have children, I'm not barren. Figure that one out!
God didn't make the woman barren, and she is indeed married - so clearly that is wrong.
And I'm sorry you took it as a judgement. I was just so amazed by the concept of 'NEVER' having sex unless you want children. So 'GET REAL' was like my statement of shock /disbelief. But hey, whatever works for you is fine by me. It's none of my business.
Just as many people here have claimed that to them personally it seems 'unnatural' for one to NEVER want children. Well, to me, it seems 'unnatural' to get married then ONLY have sex in order to have children
Oh and FYI I have been married for 5 years, we don't have children, I'm not barren. Figure that one out!
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I agree, which brings me to my point AGAIN, to provide actual hard evidence (scriptural evidence) from the bible where God commands us that it is against His will for us to use any form of prevention. Don't use the 'Go forth and multiply' that has been discussed no end on this thread, and although there is no doubt God was commanding them to mulitply, it doesn't mean that we, today, can't choose WHEN we want to multiply (if at all).
Bear in mind that commandment was made when there was only 2 people on the planet, it was necassary, otherwise none of us would be here today.
My point is, I have asked on numerous occasions for the posters on this thread to provide scriptures where God commands us NOT to use any birth control methods, and amazingly enough no one has come through with any...because it simply ISN'T there.
Honestly, you show me a verse where GOD Himself says 'I command everyone on the face of the earth to get married, have children and never try to prevent this from happening' and I will happily change my views. Good luck with that though!
L
except, nobody has said that one should only have sex in order to have children. I know that I personally have said one should have sex with the understanding that it is possible you will get pregnant, and I know I said birth control in order to prevent pregnancy is wrong.
So you use birth control. Seems to me that would create a bias on your part about whether birth control is wrong or right.
So you use birth control. Seems to me that would create a bias on your part about whether birth control is wrong or right.
L
God never said "do not abort your children."
God never said "do not commit suicide"
God never said "do not have premarital sex"
God never specifically said numerous things. Does that mean they are permissible?
The problem I am seeing here is that your are basing your beliefs solely on a bias and shifting the burden of proof to your opponent so that you do not have to prove your point. You say we have to find a verse where God forbids birth control. Well, we could similarly say you should find a verse where God permits birth control by saying "You may use birth control if X, Y, and Z are met. I am the Lord, your God."
Furthermore, if God said not to use birth control, you would discount said verse, because He would have most likely said it in the Torah, which you have admitted to not following. If you don't believe you are required to follow the mitzvah to be fruitful and multiply, why would you in turn feel obligated to follow a hypothetical mitzvah to abstain from the use of birth control?
God never said "do not commit suicide"
God never said "do not have premarital sex"
God never specifically said numerous things. Does that mean they are permissible?
The problem I am seeing here is that your are basing your beliefs solely on a bias and shifting the burden of proof to your opponent so that you do not have to prove your point. You say we have to find a verse where God forbids birth control. Well, we could similarly say you should find a verse where God permits birth control by saying "You may use birth control if X, Y, and Z are met. I am the Lord, your God."
Furthermore, if God said not to use birth control, you would discount said verse, because He would have most likely said it in the Torah, which you have admitted to not following. If you don't believe you are required to follow the mitzvah to be fruitful and multiply, why would you in turn feel obligated to follow a hypothetical mitzvah to abstain from the use of birth control?
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Okay well God did say don't abort- I think 'thou shalt not murder' pretty much sums that up- and I'm sure we all agree abortion is murder.
As for the other specifics you pointed out, suicide - I'd pretty much say that falls under the category of'your body is the temple of the holy spirit' I mean, I know this is a grey area for a lot of people. Some argue that if you suicide you will still go to heaven, other say you won't. You are right there is nowhere specific where God says 'I do not want you to kill yourself'. But I mean let's be serious here. If one is TRULY a Christian why would they contemplate suicide- (unless they're posessed by the devil?) Now, please don't take these words and twist them, as has happened here in previous posts. By that, I am in no way declaring all people who suicide are demonic or possessed or anything like that, but light destoys darkness right? So, if one TRULY has Jesus dwelling within them, then they wouldn't suicide. Light and darkness cannot reside in the same place.
I think some people here need to go back and read their previous posts. You claim no-one here has said that one should only have sex in order to have children...are you kidding me? NUMEROUS people have said that. I have been attacked and ridiculed, and told flat out that my only choice as a Christian is abstinence or condoms because they are God's way, and right now since I'm apparently not doing it God's way - then there will be consequences for my actions. So you mean to tell me that saying someone should either abstain or get pregnant isn't the same as saying 'sex is only for reproducing?' Uh, sounds the same to me...because it is. Worded differently, but that is what is being said nonetheless.
Furthermore, I'd like to know how you all justify your 'abstain or have a child theory' with this verse:
1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control
Um yeah I didn't make that up myself, look it up, it's there in God's word. So that kinda discounts the whole 'unless you want a baby you should abstain' argument. God doesn't want us to abstain -in fact he's commanding us NOT TO DEPRIVE each other. Um, I can't really argue with that. If you do abstain, the time of abstinance is to be spent on prayer and supplication to the Lord. So to those who think they'd simply abstain for 5 years until they're ready to have a baby - wow I hope you're prepared for 5 years of prayer and devotion to God!
As for the other specifics you pointed out, suicide - I'd pretty much say that falls under the category of'your body is the temple of the holy spirit' I mean, I know this is a grey area for a lot of people. Some argue that if you suicide you will still go to heaven, other say you won't. You are right there is nowhere specific where God says 'I do not want you to kill yourself'. But I mean let's be serious here. If one is TRULY a Christian why would they contemplate suicide- (unless they're posessed by the devil?) Now, please don't take these words and twist them, as has happened here in previous posts. By that, I am in no way declaring all people who suicide are demonic or possessed or anything like that, but light destoys darkness right? So, if one TRULY has Jesus dwelling within them, then they wouldn't suicide. Light and darkness cannot reside in the same place.
I think some people here need to go back and read their previous posts. You claim no-one here has said that one should only have sex in order to have children...are you kidding me? NUMEROUS people have said that. I have been attacked and ridiculed, and told flat out that my only choice as a Christian is abstinence or condoms because they are God's way, and right now since I'm apparently not doing it God's way - then there will be consequences for my actions. So you mean to tell me that saying someone should either abstain or get pregnant isn't the same as saying 'sex is only for reproducing?' Uh, sounds the same to me...because it is. Worded differently, but that is what is being said nonetheless.
Furthermore, I'd like to know how you all justify your 'abstain or have a child theory' with this verse:
1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control
Um yeah I didn't make that up myself, look it up, it's there in God's word. So that kinda discounts the whole 'unless you want a baby you should abstain' argument. God doesn't want us to abstain -in fact he's commanding us NOT TO DEPRIVE each other. Um, I can't really argue with that. If you do abstain, the time of abstinance is to be spent on prayer and supplication to the Lord. So to those who think they'd simply abstain for 5 years until they're ready to have a baby - wow I hope you're prepared for 5 years of prayer and devotion to God!
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