Corporal punishment in schools. Is it time to bring back the strap?

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HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
8,085
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#61
This is an excerpt from the article I linked to.
It's just an example of how important fathers are to their children.

"Emotional time: The film and album The Wall tells the story of how a troubled rock star called Pink, who is said to be Waters, is left psychologically scarred by the loss of his father in the war
He also describes coming across a letter of condolence from George V as he tried on his father's uniform, adding how he found it disturbing that it was rubber-stamped and not actually signed.

After visiting the cemetery at Cassino in March, Waters, 70, told a local Italian TV station: 'I'm on a journey through Europe, my grandfather was killed in 1916 and my father was killed down the road in Anzio. This is the end of my journey.

'Some of my past is in my music and so is my future. I'm making a film that won't be aired in public.'

Speaking of his father, Waters recalled in an interview his childhood and how his father's death had affected him. He said: 'When men in uniform came to collect their children, that's when I realised I didn't have a father anymore.

'I was very angry. It took me years to come to terms with it. Because he was missing in action, presumed killed, until quite recently I expected him to come home. The sacrifice of his life has been a great gift and a great burden to me.'

The film and album The Wall tells the story of how a troubled rock star called Pink, who is said to be Waters, is left psychologically scarred by the loss of his father in the war. The film opens with scenes of a solider - Eric Waters - along with his comrades, storming a beachhead.

Mr Shindler, 93, a veteran who fought in Italy during Word War Two and is in charge of the Itay Star Association which represents former soldiers, said: 'I started to dig around on the story when I saw a report of this man on the TV.

'I was very moved that he wanted to find out more about his father's death and the circumstances of how he was killed. I don't know who Pink Floyd are, my music stops at The Beatles.

'The report describes the events leading up to his father's death and how they were surrounded and outnumbered but despite putting on a brave fight their was nothing they could do.'

Mr Shindler adds that he had been in touch with Roger Waters agent but had no direct contact with the musician who recently completed a successful tour of Europe.

On his official website Waters has posted a tribute to his father and urged fans to send in photos and stories of their 'Fallen Loved Ones'.

He writes it 'is a request, from me, reaching out to ask you to provide a photograph and personal details of a "Loved One" lost in war. Your "Loved One’s" pictures and details would be included, along with those of my father Eric, in my up coming show THE WALL, as an act of remembrance. The "Fallen Loved One" does not have to have been a soldier. Civilian deaths are equally, if not more, harrowing.

'I make this request to you in light of my belief that many of these tragic losses of life are avoidable. I feel empathy with the families of all the victims and anger at "THE POWERS THAT BE", who are responsible, in equal measure. Please join me in honouring our dead and protesting their loss.'
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#62
ADHD means that the child is bright...they don't need repetitious assignments and long boring lectures on concepts they grasped in 60 seconds but the lecture drones on for 10-20 minutes....they need massive amounts of information instruction that will hold their attention.
You have a right to voice your opinion but again this in not based in any fact or reality.

All cognitive levels can be a person with ADHD.
The fact that "label" is over used by the medical field does not mean it does not exist.

I see that you have not been able to produce any direct connection to all this opinions you like to share, I thought Christians were supposed to be people who held to truth not polemics.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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#63
You have a right to voice your opinion but again this in not based in any fact or reality.

All cognitive levels can be a person with ADHD.
The fact that "label" is over used by the medical field does not mean it does not exist.

I see that you have not been able to produce any direct connection to all this opinions you like to share, I thought Christians were supposed to be people who held to truth not polemics.
The truth is in the streets rioting killing talking stupid
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,048
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#64
I must be an exception. In my entire elementary and high school days, I had only two teachers that I didn't like, and none that I did not respect. Most had taught my parents, so I knew what not to do in their classroom. Every teacher had a "board of education" or a bundle of switches in their classroom.

My children, with the exception of my daughter (youngest) were not as fortunate as I was. We moved a lot, and spent most of the last few years of the older boy's school years in Washington DC. We moved home while my daughter was in the sixth grade. She was so far behind, that we held her back for a year. It worked for her. She finished high school, then went on to college. Her brothers GEDed out of high school and went on to trade schools. The problem with the high schools that my boys attended was no classroom discipline nor respect.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#65
The truth is in the streets rioting killing talking stupid
Not really sure how this connects? :unsure:

What is your point ADHD, does not exist and they are just criminals?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#66
I must be an exception. In my entire elementary and high school days, I had only two teachers that I didn't like, and none that I did not respect. Most had taught my parents, so I knew what not to do in their classroom. Every teacher had a "board of education" or a bundle of switches in their classroom.

My children, with the exception of my daughter (youngest) were not as fortunate as I was. We moved a lot, and spent most of the last few years of the older boy's school years in Washington DC. We moved home while my daughter was in the sixth grade. She was so far behind, that we held her back for a year. It worked for her. She finished high school, then went on to college. Her brothers GEDed out of high school and went on to trade schools. The problem with the high schools that my boys attended was no classroom discipline nor respect.
You have a reasonable voice, I so much appreciated reading a sensible post.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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#67
Not really sure how this connects? :unsure:

What is your point ADHD, does not exist and they are just criminals?
You really jumped i never said ADHD or any other problem does not exist. My guess if i was tested they would find dyslexia and maybe a few others.
Worked in the school system back in the 80s Had kids in school 70s and 80s. Sister is/was a teacher. The public school system today is clear example of mankind's free will.

Public schools... one teacher wanted to put our son on ritalin for ADHD, while another had his IQ tested at 139 . my reply was to have the kids go Catholic grammar school . The structure and demands settled the lack of attention. His first day of Catholic school he runs to the car saying Mom mom guess what i learned today.

A couple things sorta all happened at once to make the move...

For our daughter she was not beat up again by a boy 2 grades ahead of her . Albert left her with abrasions and bruises she was a second grader . Mr. Kidd ( principle) tried to tell me about poor Albert the kid from a broken home etc. Albert lived a few doors down the street no broken home. She love the peace of her new school :) no more crying about school

Grades and attitude for both was so improved

Christian parents should not send the kids to public schools and now i would not send them to Catholic schools
 

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
1,012
546
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#68
When I was at primary school, they had the strap for misbehaviour. So you get 2 whacks or more on the hand. Just the sound of the strap making contact was enough to get you to manage yourself. My siblings and I were never strapped at school because our parents disciplined us at home. We had a verbal warning once and then the physical discipline came next if we didnt heed that warning. Trust me on this, we learned very quickly to take our parents seriously, we also learned that to act a fool at school meant our parents finding out and that at home, consequences were worse than what the school dished out. To correct with the strap or whatever is being used is supposed to hurt, it is supposed to reinforce to the child that their bad behaviour is unacceptable, it is supposed to deter you from repeating the bad behaviour and it is supposed to teach you that life lesson instantly. You just have to talk to people from other countries that are not westernized and they will describe how the discipline is at their schools compared to western countries. Big difference. And yes I know some parents go overboard but they are few and if schools were to bring back strapping on the hand at least it would be monitored.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,927
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#69
First off, no one’s kid should be in public school today.
Between CRT, the transgender madness, the various forms of outcome based testing, etc..
it is a full time job deprogramming your kid. You might as well just homeschool.

BUT, when my kids went school, I’d have a monstrous issue if any “educator” struck my child.

You wanna give them detention fine.
You wanna suspend them fine.
You wanna expel them fine.

Lay a hand on them though, and you would’ve had a big problem with me.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#70
So suspending the students just gives them a holiday from learning. Who is disciplining our young people if the state threatens uplift if the parents smack their children for misbehaving?
End of year and still students are being suspended for fighting and other undesirable behaviour.
Most schools model a framework of positive behaviour but it doesnt work on some students. A mostly female school staff isnt helping either. Boys dont respect their authority. Its pretty disheartening to see how angry these young boys can get. I think schools are too soft on bad behaviour and most principals dont set the best standard for their schools. Some people think its abuse but you can ask the children nicely in a positive tone to correct the behaviour maybe several times or you can get the strap out and this speeds up the correction.
Correction needs to start early as does a bedtime. Tired cranky little boys can be a nightmare even if they are otherwise well behaved. I also noticed that it's hard to change ingrained attitudes. Once they are established, it's difficult for all involved, including the child. I agree with what you are saying. After giving it more thought, I recall a lot of factors that affect the subject. I heard the author's interview after he wrote this book and after considering his perspective and research, found it to be very interesting. For instance, In the typical large classroom, girls and boys are treated the same at every age even though there are differences. Hyperactivity can be caused by many factors that you and I discussed here. I agree with your points too. If you ever want further study on the subject, this book or similar resources on the subject are available.

The Wildest Colts Make the Best Horses
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,607
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#71
You have a right to voice your opinion but again this in not based in any fact or reality.

All cognitive levels can be a person with ADHD.
The fact that "label" is over used by the medical field does not mean it does not exist.

I see that you have not been able to produce any direct connection to all this opinions you like to share, I thought Christians were supposed to be people who held to truth not polemics.
Well that over used label is haunting people to this day. When a child with juvenile bipolar disorder is labeled as having ADHD and is medicated as such...

These are the children that get a slew of guns and ammunition that shoot up schools and public places....EVERY one of the public school shootings and crowded venue shootings have been once children who were labeled as ADHD but really had a case of juvenile bipolar disorder. The truth is those drugs are not harmless...they will turn a bipolar person into a raging psychopath.

But lets pass out Ritalin like it's candy....mmmmmkay?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#72
Well that over used label is haunting people to this day. When a child with juvenile bipolar disorder is labeled as having ADHD and is medicated as such...

These are the children that get a slew of guns and ammunition that shoot up schools and public places....EVERY one of the public school shootings and crowded venue shootings have been once children who were labeled as ADHD but really had a case of juvenile bipolar disorder. The truth is those drugs are not harmless...they will turn a bipolar person into a raging psychopath.

But lets pass out Ritalin like it's candy....mmmmmkay?
You going off into a different topic/direction once again.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
3,821
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#73
You really jumped i never said ADHD or any other problem does not exist. My guess if i was tested they would find dyslexia and maybe a few others.
Worked in the school system back in the 80s Had kids in school 70s and 80s. Sister is/was a teacher. The public school system today is clear example of mankind's free will.

Public schools... one teacher wanted to put our son on ritalin for ADHD, while another had his IQ tested at 139 . my reply was to have the kids go Catholic grammar school . The structure and demands settled the lack of attention. His first day of Catholic school he runs to the car saying Mom mom guess what i learned today.

A couple things sorta all happened at once to make the move...

For our daughter she was not beat up again by a boy 2 grades ahead of her . Albert left her with abrasions and bruises she was a second grader . Mr. Kidd ( principle) tried to tell me about poor Albert the kid from a broken home etc. Albert lived a few doors down the street no broken home. She love the peace of her new school :) no more crying about school

Grades and attitude for both was so improved

Christian parents should not send the kids to public schools and now i would not send them to Catholic schools
Okay, I have lots of family in the USA, they all went through the public school system they are all leading healthy happy productive lives so not sure we can draw much of anything from personal experiences.

The main problem of public education is the indoctrination and adding to the curriculum beyond math etc.,
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,607
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#74
You going off into a different topic/direction once again.
You are the one who made it a point of contention...you just didn't have a clue that I'm very knowledgeable on the subject and have facts to back up what I'm saying.

All you have is emotional pleas and blanket labels of angels for support.

Many of us have had to deal with the system and had severe issues with trying to get our kids educated to the extent of their abilities while having a humongous, money hungry system working against us the whole time...
We are tired of the platitudes and want solutions. We haven't ALL been absentee parents...far from it. I taught my son more than the schools ever dreamed of.

I taught him his multiplication tables, long division, reading, writing and history. I also taught him geometry and algebra....by the time he was 9. Could I get a modicum of support from his teacher's.? NO.....they were more concerned about his reading a book to occupy himself while she gave a 20-30 minute lecture on a nouns and adjectives worksheet he had pencil whipped in the first five minutes of her lecture.

He was bored and I couldn't afford private schools.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
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#76
Most ADHD disorders are imagined...by boring teachers who can't hold anyone's attention much less a child's attention.

ADHD means that the child is bright...they don't need repetitious assignments and long boring lectures on concepts they grasped in 60 seconds but the lecture drones on for 10-20 minutes....they need massive amounts of information instruction that will hold their attention.

Then give them assignments that require using the knowledge.

We have been under-educating our children for decades.

If pressed, an average 9 year old child can absorb an entire 4 year high school curriculum and test on the information with passing grades.

Do we do that?

Of course not.

But....
If given a group of ADHD kids without ever having those drugs you can instruct them to build and make some of the most complicated and complex equipment in the world.

But see....it's all about Gubberment Cheese. Federal School lunch programs and federal tax dollars for special needs and head start. They have a vested interest in not teaching children. Because it profits a community not to.

Children and your average adult can absorb around 400 words per minute...when focused, a child can do up to 800 wpm. Yet untrained and undisciplined their thinking isn't capable of overturning the apple carts. They don't have the requisite social and emotional maturity to do so.

And most parents and teachers are so incongruent in their behaviors that they can't handle the logic most 13yo throw at them.

Stop with the video games and television being the most challenging thing they have to focus on. See what happens then.
That's why I always hated math and still do to this day. It's tedious and annoying.
I'm also prone to misplacing things and get extremely irritated when my routines are interrupted
But I excelled in classes like English and history, and science
The reason a lot of people including myself don't like masses they view numbers as abstract and irrelevant but can relate to things like English and science
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
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#77
That's why I always hated math and still do to this day. It's tedious and annoying.
I'm also prone to misplacing things and get extremely irritated when my routines are interrupted
But I excelled in classes like English and history, and science
The reason a lot of people including myself don't like masses they view numbers as abstract and irrelevant but can relate to things like English and science
Not everyone learns in the same manner.
And some have more plasticity in the way they learn. Learning methods become more rigid as we age up to around mid 20's.

There was a method of teaching and learning you would have excelled at. It still would work today but your plasticity is gone for learning in other methods of teaching. Which is one reason you don't excell at math today.

But no one could or would...
And yet...
They do not set up classrooms in this fashion. They can.... It's just not done. If we did we could see learning go off the charts for our children. Teachers unions and Federal programs keep it from happening....it's possible in private schools but not common there either.

My wife is master's degree and level of teaching teachers how to teach. (I like the smart girls and not the ones into horses and unicorns) She was telling me about the various methods. Like how some home schooling programs seem relaxed but are so much more intensive and comprehensive learning than anything the state schools have....and why. Some turn out lazy idiots...but that's parents. Some parents are lousy, undisciplined educators.

Childhood development has been extensively studied....from genetic to cognitive and the results are in. They are NOT popular by the powers that be. Because they prefer a caste system...and letting all the "little people" be happy so long as they remain the ruling class.

And yes, I'm talking about the 1%. They love to distract us with all sorts of things while they get to remain on top.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#78
Most ADHD disorders are imagined...by boring teachers who can't hold anyone's attention much less a child's attention.
Teachers do not diagnose ADHD.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
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#79
Teachers do not diagnose ADHD.
here in the USA they do along with gender crap. My opinion once they understood that they could over take the parents they have moved on to the gender lies. My sister is retired she would never have done that but the union of teachers do.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#80
here in the USA they do along with gender crap. My opinion once they understood that they could over take the parents they have moved on to the gender lies. My sister is retired she would never have done that but the union of teachers do.
Teachers cannot diagnose ADHD in the USA, they are not clinicians.

It is a medical condition that is formally defined in the DSM V.
Medical doctors, psychologist and psychiatrists, trained psychometrists and trained nurse practitioners can make the diagnosis.