Dressing modestly 1 Timothy 2:9

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,176
2,478
113
#81
:rolleyes:... Wrong again. :(

2 Corinthians 6:17

“Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,”




Agree... let's not let our parts stand out. :sneaky:(y)
So the part about no condemnation is still not fixed in your head yet? Or the part about this forum has an international participation?

I'm not telling people in Brazil what clothes they need to wear or not wear...same for Canadians....same for Italians or French or Greeks.

Why do you think you have the moral authority to determine what is appropriate or not appropriate for the whole world? I am not God and I'm positive you aren't either.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#82
So the part about no condemnation is still not fixed in your head yet? Or the part about this forum has an international participation?
Salvation is not a license to run around naked.

Hebrews 12:14

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”


After we are born again, we are to walk in the light. Modest people do not run around promoting public nudity.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,176
2,478
113
#83
Salvation is not a license to run around naked.

Hebrews 12:14

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”


After we are born again, we are to walk in the light. Modest people do not run around promoting public nudity.
NOBODY IS PROMOTING PUBLIC NUDITY.
The only one doing so and focusing on harlotry is YOU.

So why are you obsessed with this?
Do you have an issue with porn that you really don't want to talk about? Have an issue with lust? What's the deal?

This directive of Paul's is about a lot more than this one issue you are pounding and beating over and over again....as if it's the only thing that women do.

It's kinda nuts and obsessive IMHO.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#84
NOBODY IS PROMOTING PUBLIC NUDITY.
The only one doing so and focusing on harlotry is YOU.
Sounds like somebuddy is falling off the wagon.

It's kinda nuts and obsessive IMHO.
All who strive to be holy and walk in the light will be accused like this by the world (and JohnDB.)
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,176
2,478
113
#85
Sounds like somebuddy is falling off the wagon. :rolleyes:



All who stive to be holy and walk in the light will be accused like this by the world (and JohnDB.)
What about the rest of the meaning of what Paul was talking about? Which is covered in his "lost letters" that aren't really lost....they just aren't scripture so nobody really knows and just assumes a misogynistic viewpoint.

But you keep on with browbeating and finger wagging at every woman that you want to accuse of being a slut. Especially the innocent ones....that ought to go far.

Meanwhile those who are poor are drummed out of church by the rich women who can afford $600 dresses and outfits.
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
899
320
63
Bahrain
#86
gotta love how "Christians" spend more time arguing than agreeing.

so much for being of one mind.
apparently the holy spirit was meant to teach us all the answer. seems we all getting different answers.

Oh and please dont give me the Catholic line of Agreement on Fundamentals and acceptance of anything not findamental.

LOL
 
Jul 6, 2022
16
10
3
#87
Is there anyone else that goes on here that dresses modest? Also, I have autism and I know I don't ask things the right way a lot of times but I hope I asked it the right way. I don't wear pants or jeans hardly ever and I have been made fun of about it sometimes.
you asked just fine. I dress modestly and always have. I usually have my arms covered and wear skirts or dresses that are way below my knee. I believe God expects this of us.
 
C

ChristianTonyB

Guest
#88
you asked just fine. I dress modestly and always have. I usually have my arms covered and wear skirts or dresses that are way below my knee. I believe God expects this of us.
Yes, each to their own in what they wear, as long as it is modest attire.

God expects us to dress in a way that will not cause anyone else to sin. Therefore we mustn't dress in a way that emphasises our gender specific parts or flaunts our material wealth.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,227
1,026
113
#89
lol. living in a muslim country the girls wear same as girls in western world
Bahrain has a Navy base and a bunch of McDonalds; More accepting of homosexuality than any Arab country; People have the right to change their legal gender; It's an educated guess on my part, but I'd wager Bahrain is 70% Muslim like America is "70% Christian". Which is to say, it's probably not really 70%. In legal terms it is a "Muslim country", but is it really? What's distinctively 'not western' about Bahrain?
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,227
1,026
113
#90
What about the rest of the meaning of what Paul was talking about?
Meanwhile those who are poor are drummed out of church by the rich women who can afford $600 dresses and outfits.
It's true that modesty in part has to do with not flaunting wealth, and it's negligent for a church not to address that- as some do; but if people are getting "drummed out" by wealthy people, they're probably better off in a different church anyway.
I'm not saying that poor and unkempt people that have difficulty with clothing issues should be harassed: quite the opposite. If anything, someone should buy them clothes!

Which is covered in his "lost letters" that aren't really lost....they just aren't scripture so nobody really knows and just assumes a misogynistic viewpoint.
What specific non-scriptural writing are you referring to? And how do people "assume a mysogynistic viewpoint"? It's not even a gender-specific issue. Observing that it is more typical of women isn't misogyny any more than observing anger and violence being more typical of men is androgyny.

You say you're not promoting nudity; but suggest early Christians met at gymnasiums, where people were nude. Are you suggesting they assembled for church meetings there? What is your source material for that? Because it sounds pretty absurd.

Christians are naturally going to stand out from worldly people. I don't mean they should "try to" stand out. People that cover their nakedness and are practical with wealth will naturally stand out from worldly people, because that's not the way of the world. Modesty is definitely not about "blending in" or going with the crowd, or following cultural trends. It pays no respect to those things; you can even culturally assimilate without compromising modesty if you need to assimilate somewhere for some reason.

And the bit where you try to shame Oyster for "lust" doesn't really work, because it doesn't matter if someone is a Christian or not; even if there is some pagan heathen woman provoked to lust by a 'christian' man's overt immodesty, it's just as much on the man (or vice versa). And lack of intent isn't really an excuse either; just as if I ate food offered to an idol in public- the intent is to eat, and not worship a false god, but it comes off as worship, and could cause someone else to think it's okay to worship a false god. We have a responsibility toward the conscience of others in public. It doesn't sound very "American" but it's biblical. In the privacy of your own home you can get in the nude and bathe in a tub of Jell-o that was offered to Buddah and it doesn't matter, because it doesn't affect anyone else.

I just heard a preacher on the radio boast about how he was preaching in a tank-top, and how his church had no dress code; and he went further on to say that some people didn't like it, because "they were full of lust, and couldn't handle it". I have no idea what this guy looks like- but let's assume he is this muscular attractive dude. Is some young girl that is distracted by his pecs bursting forth from his tank top and unable to focus on the message being preached:
1) is this girl "full of LUST" or
2) is this preacher full of HIMSELF?

So, it's not a sexism, or misogyny thing. This can effect everyone- and the people that it will effect the most are the people in denial. The people that, for the sake of false-liberty, will pretend that public sexual attraction doesn't have negative effects, or effect them, because they are just that mature and holy. Even a legitimately asexual person that doesn't observe any sexual attraction in themselves can still see it's effects in the people around them; it's simple biology and not rocket science or anything that is difficult to understand.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,176
2,478
113
#91
It's true that modesty in part has to do with not flaunting wealth, and it's negligent for a church not to address that- as some do; but if people are getting "drummed out" by wealthy people, they're probably better off in a different church anyway.
I'm not saying that poor and unkempt people that have difficulty with clothing issues should be harassed: quite the opposite. If anything, someone should buy them clothes!


What specific non-scriptural writing are you referring to? And how do people "assume a mysogynistic viewpoint"? It's not even a gender-specific issue. Observing that it is more typical of women isn't misogyny any more than observing anger and violence being more typical of men is androgyny.

You say you're not promoting nudity; but suggest early Christians met at gymnasiums, where people were nude. Are you suggesting they assembled for church meetings there? What is your source material for that? Because it sounds pretty absurd.

Christians are naturally going to stand out from worldly people. I don't mean they should "try to" stand out. People that cover their nakedness and are practical with wealth will naturally stand out from worldly people, because that's not the way of the world. Modesty is definitely not about "blending in" or going with the crowd, or following cultural trends. It pays no respect to those things; you can even culturally assimilate without compromising modesty if you need to assimilate somewhere for some reason.

And the bit where you try to shame Oyster for "lust" doesn't really work, because it doesn't matter if someone is a Christian or not; even if there is some pagan heathen woman provoked to lust by a 'christian' man's overt immodesty, it's just as much on the man (or vice versa). And lack of intent isn't really an excuse either; just as if I ate food offered to an idol in public- the intent is to eat, and not worship a false god, but it comes off as worship, and could cause someone else to think it's okay to worship a false god. We have a responsibility toward the conscience of others in public. It doesn't sound very "American" but it's biblical. In the privacy of your own home you can get in the nude and bathe in a tub of Jell-o that was offered to Buddah and it doesn't matter, because it doesn't affect anyone else.

I just heard a preacher on the radio boast about how he was preaching in a tank-top, and how his church had no dress code; and he went further on to say that some people didn't like it, because "they were full of lust, and couldn't handle it". I have no idea what this guy looks like- but let's assume he is this muscular attractive dude. Is some young girl that is distracted by his pecs bursting forth from his tank top and unable to focus on the message being preached:
1) is this girl "full of LUST" or
2) is this preacher full of HIMSELF?

So, it's not a sexism, or misogyny thing. This can effect everyone- and the people that it will effect the most are the people in denial. The people that, for the sake of false-liberty, will pretend that public sexual attraction doesn't have negative effects, or effect them, because they are just that mature and holy. Even a legitimately asexual person that doesn't observe any sexual attraction in themselves can still see it's effects in the people around them; it's simple biology and not rocket science or anything that is difficult to understand.
The underlying truth and point is about not calling attention to yourself...that's what modesty is about. It's got nothing specific about dressing like a tramp or a Belle at the Ball. But it does cover both.
It's about being modest in action and deeds both.

There are people who like upstageing everyone and calling attention to themselves...like singing the solo music every Sunday. Or leading the women's prayer....or doing something every Sunday that calls attention to themselves.

That's more about what Paul was talking about...and it's not necessarily just women that are the object lesson in this passage. They were at the time of writing but that ignores the larger object lesson that Paul was trying to relate about trying to call attention to yourself.

Now is it beginning to make sense?
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,227
1,026
113
#92
There are people who like upstageing everyone and calling attention to themselves...like singing the solo music every Sunday. Or leading the women's prayer....or doing something every Sunday that calls attention to themselves.
I agree that something like this could be immodest; and this greater principle of modesty does tend to elude a lot of people because it's hidden in "worship". Just like other people would hide immodesty behind "wearing their sunday-best", while not bad in principle, it is also not biblical and what is "best" is entirely subjective. Usually what they mean by "best" is "most formal" and "most expensive", neither of which are necessarily called for by God- but called for by "pastors" that want a polished image that appeals to the flesh.

There is definitely the idea of not calling attention to yourself, but I think you took it too far when you said
If everyone is in shorts and t-shirts and you show up in a floor length long sleeved dress and a hair cloth....you are also failing.

Unless the aforementioned dress and cloth are overly decorative and expensive, this is never, ever an inappropriate thing for a lady to wear- regardless of what anyone else is wearing. You might call the person's motivation for "modesty" in question if they are drawing attention to themselves in other ways: but the fact that greater modesty stands out in the presence of lesser modesty does not make modesty immodest. Ladies that present themselves in an acceptable way can confidently stand in their convictions when some chick in booty shorts, or some other hoochie gear goes to pick on them for covering themselves for being "insecure" or "shy" or some other nonsense.
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
899
320
63
Bahrain
#93
Bahrain has a Navy base and a bunch of McDonalds; More accepting of homosexuality than any Arab country; People have the right to change their legal gender; It's an educated guess on my part, but I'd wager Bahrain is 70% Muslim like America is "70% Christian". Which is to say, it's probably not really 70%. In legal terms it is a "Muslim country", but is it really? What's distinctively 'not western' about Bahrain?
theyr do not accept homosexuality at all. they even ban MArvel films that display some man on man kissing.

So no it not acceptable at all.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,176
2,478
113
#94
I agree that something like this could be immodest; and this greater principle of modesty does tend to elude a lot of people because it's hidden in "worship". Just like other people would hide immodesty behind "wearing their sunday-best", while not bad in principle, it is also not biblical and what is "best" is entirely subjective. Usually what they mean by "best" is "most formal" and "most expensive", neither of which are necessarily called for by God- but called for by "pastors" that want a polished image that appeals to the flesh.

There is definitely the idea of not calling attention to yourself, but I think you took it too far when you said
If everyone is in shorts and t-shirts and you show up in a floor length long sleeved dress and a hair cloth....you are also failing.

Unless the aforementioned dress and cloth are overly decorative and expensive, this is never, ever an inappropriate thing for a lady to wear- regardless of what anyone else is wearing. You might call the person's motivation for "modesty" in question if they are drawing attention to themselves in other ways: but the fact that greater modesty stands out in the presence of lesser modesty does not make modesty immodest. Ladies that present themselves in an acceptable way can confidently stand in their convictions when some chick in booty shorts, or some other hoochie gear goes to pick on them for covering themselves for being "insecure" or "shy" or some other nonsense.
Amish style clothing is acceptable only in Amish communities. Not any other place. It's again making someone stand out.

I've seen beach churches where everyone is in shorts and swimwear....and northern churches where everyone is in 6 layers of clothing....but then exposed skin gets frostbite quick too.

Being modest is relative to the styles and customs of where you go to church....and it can vary from church to church inside a city.
In some Baptist churches scotching the pastor when he preaches is customary....but in others clearing your throat during a sermon is frowned upon. All dependent upon the church you are in.

(Scotching a pastor is the "Amen" or "tell it" or something else of encouragement shouted at the pastor by congregants during the sermon)

Raising hands in worship in a Baptist church is not being modest....but neither is not raising hands in a Charismatic church.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,227
1,026
113
#95
theyr do not accept homosexuality at all. they even ban MArvel films that display some man on man kissing.

So no it not acceptable at all.
That's good to hear, in some ways. Sometimes I believe America does good overseas, but other times I am concerned when 'liberal' ideaologies that we have gain too much momentum in other countries. I have mixed feelings about the whole 'arab spring' thing. Maybe Bahrain is better off that it didn't have the impact that it did in other countries.

I guess I don't understand why muslim women are dressing like western women, though. Is it a Shiite thing, or just disparity between religious teaching and religious practice?
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,227
1,026
113
#96
Amish style clothing is acceptable only in Amish communities. Not any other place. It's again making someone stand out.
So, are you expecting Amish people to change their clothes when they come to town? Because that's... nuts. Thier modesty is commendable in any place. "Standing out" is not inherently immodest, for example: if there is a foreigner that comes in some foreign style apparel, it will stand out. That doesn't make them immodest, unless their goods are hanging out, or the thread is made of gold. The church isn't the military, it's not about conformity and uniformity.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#97
Meanwhile those who are poor are drummed out of church by the rich women who can afford $600 dresses and outfits.
It doesn't cost $600 to be modest. If you can't afford underwear, just let me know. I'll mail you a pair of mine.

Genesis 3:7

“And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,176
2,478
113
#98
It doesn't cost $600 to be modest. If you can't afford underwear, just let me know. I'll mail you a pair of mine.

Genesis 3:7

“And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
You are taking what I intended way out of context....try reading what I wrote again.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#99
Amish style clothing is acceptable only in Amish communities. Not any other place. It's again making someone stand out.
We are to be salt in a wicked, immoral, and immodest world. We are to conform to the Kingdom of God, not the World....

Romans 12:2

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

I've seen beach churches where everyone is in shorts and swimwear....
2 Corinthians 6:17

“Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,”

Being modest is relative to the styles and customs of where you go to church....
Holiness and modesty is not relative. The Bible is a book of absolutes and applies to today. It is a Book for all times.

Matthew 24:35

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,176
2,478
113
We are to be salt in a wicked, immoral, and immodest world. We are to conform to the Kingdom of God, not the World....

Romans 12:2

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”



2 Corinthians 6:17

“Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,”



Holiness and modesty is not relative. The Bible is a book of absolutes and applies to today. It is a Book for all times.

Matthew 24:35

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
1corinthians 13

Love is KIND.

God is love.

Meaning that there is no codified dress standard....but standing out by telling all the women that they are dressed poorly is definitely mentioned