Gay Marriage?

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J

Jullianna

Guest
#21
Historians will one day look back on our society and say "What a bunch of intolerant bigots". Conservatives Christians against marriage equality (who tend to be detriments to other civil liberties as well) are marking their place in the textbooks on the wrong side of history. They will be viewed no differently than sexists, racists, or anti-abolishonists.
And one day those people will stand before a Holy God and give account for everything they said about God and His people. The christian is not to be concerned in the least by what man thinks of him/her per scripture, but what God thinks. :) To Him alone we are accountable and answerable, not to those who recreate history to suit themselves and their finite wisdom.

I really don't see this as a serious conversation any longer, but merely an opportunistic thread to bash christianity, so..peace out y'all :)
 

leelee

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2011
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#22
And one day those people will stand before a Holy God and give account for everything they said about God and His people. The christian is not to be concerned in the least by what man thinks of him/her per scripture, but what God thinks. :) To Him alone we are accountable and answerable, not to those who recreate history to suit themselves and their finite wisdom.

I really don't see this as a serious conversation any longer, but merely an opportunistic thread to bash christianity, so..peace out y'all :)
God is love and I am not sure he would thank any of us for being intolerant. I also don't think the thread is bashing Christianity although i do think that the OP needs to answer the questions being brought before him.
 

leelee

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2011
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#23
Also I am for same sex marriage but agree that the should be an option for conscientious objectors.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#24
“God is love and I am not sure he would thank any of us for being intolerant.”

Leelee, I agree that God is love; but He is also righteous and holy, so can you please provide scripture regarding God’s thoughts on the tolerance of homosexuality specifically? Are you saying that God is more tolerant of some sins than others?

I also don't think the thread is bashing Christianity

although i do think that the OP needs to answer the questions being brought before him.[/quote]


I agree. Since the questions of others have been treated as rhetorical and/or dismissively, and due to some of the impolite, anti-christian comments that have been posted, I can’t really accept this as a serious, respectful discussion any longer. To the unbeliever the opinions of man seem to matter, but I don’t understand why that is. *shrugs*

God bless J
 
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leelee

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2011
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#25
God sees all sins as equal so no, but he is also not less tolerant. As in he sees my own sins and yours as equal to those of a gay person. I am not actually sure why christians are so judgemental about gays tbh since everyone has sinned.
 
F

Fidelis

Guest
#26
Oh yeah, we should definately take all our laws from the Bible. We should make the law that when a girl gets raped, the raper just have to pay 50 pieces of silver to her dad and then the girl must marry the raper. Fair enough.

I do not believe in absolute morality. I believe laws are made for people, not the other way around. If society changes, laws should change.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#27
Oh yeah, we should definately take all our laws from the Bible. We should make the law that when a girl gets raped, the raper just have to pay 50 pieces of silver to her dad and then the girl must marry the raper. Fair enough.

I do not believe in absolute morality. I believe laws are made for people, not the other way around. If society changes, laws should change.[/quote]

scripture please to support this?
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#28
This is such an interesting topic. It’s so very discouraging not to be able to engage in a genuine biblical discussion thereof due to the insertion of personal theories and preconceived notions rather than actual scripture. It could have been so edifying. Oh well…*sigh*
 
F

Fidelis

Guest
#29
Oh yeah, we should definately take all our laws from the Bible. We should make the law that when a girl gets raped, the raper just have to pay 50 pieces of silver to her dad and then the girl must marry the raper. Fair enough.

I do not believe in absolute morality. I believe laws are made for people, not the other way around. If society changes, laws should change.[/quote]

scripture please to support this?
It's just my interpretation of the Bible, but I don't say I can't be wrong. The laws of the Old Testament make perfect sense in a utilistic manner. No sex outside of marriage / men with men to avoid STD's, one day per week no work to have mental and physical rest, circumcision to avoid some health risks, physical punishments because nomads didn't have prisons, forbid eating pork meat because it's unhealthy, hygiene laws to prevent diseases to spread on the whole population etc.

2000 years ago the chosen people weren't nomads anymore, so physical punishment weren't needed. The hygiene was good enough to get rid of a whole bunch of laws and circumstition. This 'evolution' (ooh, risky choice of words) of laws gives me the idea that laws are made for people, and not the other way around.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#30
God sees all sins as equal so no, but he is also not less tolerant. As in he sees my own sins and yours as equal to those of a gay person. I am not actually sure why christians are so judgemental about gays tbh since everyone has sinned.

I agree. Sin is sin. If we continue in a specific sin, are we to be considered to have repented of it or would this be trampling upon grace?

How is the christian, rather than the scriptures themselves that judge/condemn, all of us, not just the homosexual?
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#31
It's just my interpretation of the Bible, but I don't say I can't be wrong. The laws of the Old Testament make perfect sense in a utilistic manner. No sex outside of marriage / men with men to avoid STD's, one day per week no work to have mental and physical rest, circumcision to avoid some health risks, physical punishments because nomads didn't have prisons, forbid eating pork meat because it's unhealthy, hygiene laws to prevent diseases to spread on the whole population etc.

2000 years ago the chosen people weren't nomads anymore, so physical punishment weren't needed. The hygiene was good enough to get rid of a whole bunch of laws and circumstition. This 'evolution' (ooh, risky choice of words) of laws gives me the idea that laws are made for people, and not the other way around.

THANK YOU :) now we're getting somewhere :)

We know that, as christians, we are not under the law though, but under grace (will post scripture upon request, but basically found in the books of Romans and Hebrews; I'm assuming this is common knowledge to christians).

Since:

1. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Hebrews 13:8; and

2. Since the NT also condemns this particular sin, even Jesus, Himself (which refutes God being tolerant of it, unless there are "christians" who don't accept the diety of Christ) (Matthew 19; Romans 1; 1 Cor 6; Gal 5:19; Eph 5; Col 3; 1 Tim 1; Titus1; Jude 1 and Rev 21) and the NT Church is to continue until the day of His appearing (again, christian common knowledge, but will post scripture upon request);

How can we say that this is no longer in full force and effect simply because society declares it to be so?

If we go by what society believes to be correct, it would shed an entirely new light upon the crucifixion of our Lord, would it not? If the majority of society comes to believe there is no God, will this make it so?
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#32
I agree. Sin is sin. If we continue in a specific sin, are we to be considered to have repented of it or would this be trampling upon grace?

How is *IT* the christian, rather than the scriptures themselves that judge/condemn, all of us, not just the homosexual?
My apologies for the omission :)
 

leelee

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2011
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#33
I just don't think we are the ones to judge any of it. only God can do that. I don't think we are a position of judgement which is why God may not tolerate it but maybe we should.
The other thing being, people who choose to live a homosexual lifestyle know they are going against the bible but at the end of the day it is their choice, marriage isn't exactly biblical, it was around before that so I just don't see why they can't have a legal civil service.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#34
I just don't think we are the ones to judge any of it. only God can do that. I don't think we are a position of judgement which is why God may not tolerate it but maybe we should.

The Word of God (see John 1) is the Righteous Judge and has already spoken regarding this particular matter, so, I agree that it's really not up to us.

The other thing being, people who choose to live a homosexual lifestyle know they are going against the bible but at the end of the day it is their choice, marriage isn't exactly biblical, it was around before that so I just don't see why they can't have a legal civil service.
If we see someone sinning, we can love them and warn them; but, you are right, we can't always stop them or protect them from themselves. But aiding and abetting sin makes us a part of that sin, does it not? Even in most worldly courts one who aids and abets an offender is treated the same as the offender and can be punished accordingly. Perhaps those who can't see it through spiritual eyes can at least comprehend this aspect.
 
N

NazariteVow

Guest
#35
There is no scripture in the bible against heterosexuals marrying CHRISTIAN AND NON-CHRISTIANS. The only time god forbid heterosexuals to marry was concerning His people taking or giving in marriage their sons and daugthers to pagan people of that time which would turn their hearts from God. Look it doesn't matter if your chrisitan or non christian. Marriage was created for heterosexuals. It is God's provided way. Once you enter into a heterosexual marriage YOU'RE ABIDING BY GOD'S LAW. It doesn't matter if you worship God or not or whatever you call yourself. This is God's Law. And His Law is FOR ALL whether you believe in Him or not. This all makes sense since we'll all be judged by This law in the end.

And this law says that HOMOSEXUALITY IS ABOMINATION; was in the old testament and still is in the new eventhough God gave them up to their lustful passions. Oh and by the way the God of the christians is also the God of the Jews.
 
N

NazariteVow

Guest
#36
Fidelis you're struggling with accepting christianity aren't you? You know it's right but then your opinions and objectives keep getting in the way.

Leelee I'm sorry to say but if you're for same sex mariages then you're not for God. What good does light have with darkness? If we are children of the day should we accept the things of the children of the night?
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#37
Once the fingerpointing and personal attacks begin minds/ears/hearts close and discussions become fruitless....quel dommage. Was hoping for better.
 
K

Kyouken

Guest
#38
Julianna, what is blarney?
I don't mean to get off topic here, but for some reason I'm really curious...
 
F

Fidelis

Guest
#39
Fidelis you're struggling with accepting christianity aren't you? You know it's right but then your opinions and objectives keep getting in the way.
I am struggling with accepting christianity because I have a different (=utilistic) view on the Bible? When I read about Jesus, I'm reading about a loving person. Therefor I cannot believe in a God (and His son) who are detesting love, no matter whether it's between men and women, men and men or women and women.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#40
I am struggling with accepting christianity because I have a different (=utilistic) view on the Bible? When I read about Jesus, I'm reading about a loving person. Therefor I cannot believe in a God (and His son) who are detesting love, no matter whether it's between men and women, men and men or women and women.
Who defines what constitutes love? Us?

I think it would be wise to let he who is love, tell us what it means to love.

1 John 4:8
English Standard Version (ESV)
8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.