I need some advice...and prayer. My nine year old girl.

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C

coby

Guest
#41
I had a friend when I was 19 or so and she had a friend. She cut herself, had borderline, her brother just killed himself and her mother just died from cancer. She didn't want anything to do with deliverance. She was in a mental institution, they put her in an isolation cell all the time. When she was free she'd try to jump in front of a train. She drove those people nuts.
Then we went on a holiday with the 3 of us. She said: What if I cut myself or try to commit suicide? My friend said: When you're with me you just simply act normal.
She did. Great 3 weeks, totally normal, relaxed.
The guy from the Gadarenes couldn't control himself but most people and kids are perfectly able if they have to. And you can simply pray for her, but don't just accept behavior and think she can't help it.
 
C

coby

Guest
#42
Once when I was martied and it was total crisis we just went on a holiday for a week to get out of the whole situation and stress. If possible that's maybe a good idea.
 

sandtigeress

Senior Member
Apr 29, 2013
526
16
18
#43
Hi,

I want to give you a different perspective from the others yet.
To me it looks like this:

Your daughter is very very afraid. Afraid of people (you) leaving.
Her "punishing" you is her way to see and believe, that you love her and will
stay with her.
She lost her mom. Her grandma (and mom before) told her (when she could hear),
that you are not good. So the people, she loves tell her that you are not good, but
you are good, you are her father and guardian. To a 9 year old that is very confusing.

When my mom died, a whole world for me died with her (and I was 39).

When she acts out, you get sad, tell her to go to her room,
talk to her about her behaviour, you are the "bad" guy and that is
consistent with the worldview, she remembers from her mom.

Love her ! And tell her as often and until she believes it, that you will
ALWAYS be there for you, that she can love her mom and grandma
and still also love you !

And that she can stop wth her acting out of hurt (because her mom is gone
and yes because she has to stop believing some of the things her mom told
about you), that you understand and that you will accept an apology every time
and that all of that, will never change the fact, that she can build upon you
Not Leaving her, Not stop Loving her.

Because she is trying very hard to make you, so that the hurt will be gone.

Praying for you and you two daughters !!!!!
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
468
83
#44



I'm not sure you'll like the advice I'm going to give but I have a unique perspective. But first I have to say there is no such thing as generational curses. People do not understand that verse and it is not scriptural. Your child does not have a bad spirit. She has been poorly taught and disciplined by both you and your former wife.

I'm not a parent but my aunt died at the age of 43 of cancer. She was my mothers sister.Her daughter was 16 when her mother took cancer. And she went to pieces.She was also not disciplined properly. She was on drugs and drinking,having sex with young guys,she lost it. She beat up her younger brother.As her mother grew more ill her father,like you,did not know what to do with her.This is where I stepped in. There are several years between us.My mother tried her best to help her but she would just laugh or be disrespectful. One day she was talking to my mother on the phone and was so rude that my mom was crying when she got off the phone. I said "thats enough"! I told her she would never take that behavior from us.I told her to call her back and tell her she is not talking to her mother,that you are her aunt and you will not take that kind of disrespect. Tell her you love her and are there for her but she will not speak to you that way again. Today she is like a daughter to my mother,they think the world of each other,she just had to be put in her place.

But during that time she was a wild thing to deal with.Her mother was so sick but worried about her,her father couldn't handle her and her brother was afraid of her.One night after church I walked up to her and told her to get in our van.She was with her boyfriend. I began to tell her she was upsetting her family.She jumped me and got mouthy. I turned and said "You listen to me young lady,I'm not your catty girlfriends at school.If we are going to throw down,Im going to win.I've had enough of you and your disrespect for your family. We are trying to help you and you are acting like a spoiled brat" She started to cry. She broke for the first time.We stayed close to her and she began to open up.Then whenever she needed advice she would call. Today she is married with three boys and a strong Christian along with her husband.

​So I said all that to say this...Your daughter is hurting,she is in a tailspin.She doesn't know how to act or how to make the pain go away.She has no strong guidance. If she saw problems between you and your wife,and if she heard things from your MIL she's confused. Kids should never ever have to deal with adult problems,they have no power to change anything.I dont know if you divorced your wife or you stayed together and fought. Im not clear but there were obviously issues there. So now her mother is gone and she's looking for a strong place to fall. Yes,she's rude,she's acting from pain. But you cant let her act this way. It will limit her future,no matter how smart or high her IQ is. You must be very firm and very loving.You are not her friend,you are her parent. When she is rude to guests you tell her to apologize and go to her room.Let friends know you are in crisis right now.She is pushing the limits to see where you say "no more" She needs you to step up and be her soft place to fall but also her strong guidance. You also need to explain that sometimes adults,like kids,have issues and sometimes don't treat each other the way they should.You need to tell her you are sorry that you involved her in adult things.If you loved her mother,tell her you did. But also explain that sometimes adults can act like kids too and you are sorry if you hurt her mother. Dont get into details,apologize.She resents you for her mothers sake. You need to break that barrier.If you allow her to be willful and rude and won't step up as a parent you are ruining her future.There is no break to being a parent.You alone are now responsible. Be firm but loving. Pick your battles but when you do you don't back down and dont let her win. If you cannot stand up to her now you will have a teenager that is hell to deal with.

Finally you need to find her currency.What is it that she loves doing the most.What really makes her happy. Find that out and do that with her.Speak to her in her calm times.Go to a park,go shopping,go with her to get her nails done,just find a way to be on her level and relate to her so she can open up with you. Reward good behavior. If there is a woman she trusts you can have her around at times but you still need to find a way to relate to her.She's about to have a lot more issues as a teen girl.So you better take firm,but loving,control right now. This girl is broken in pain and in deep need of her dad.Be there for her. You will change her path in life if you do.
I don't agree with what you started off with, about generational curses, I think behaviors do get passed on from one generation to the next.
I do agree that she is not demon possessed.
I said in a previous post she is not my friend, nor do I want her to be. I said, I am her parent.
I have been thinking of apologizing to her, and I will. As no said, no details, no sense in getting into it.
I do things with her that she is interested in, maybe not enough.
I do reward good behavior. I believe I am there for her.
I did not divorce my wife. What kind of Christian man would divorce a woman with cancer? Even if she didn't have cancer, I would not have divorced her.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you said in the post. I have been praying and thinking about the posts here, and I had come to the same conclusion. Her mom is dead a year. The mourning period has passed. She has received grace. She needs more clearly defined boundaries, I have to clean up the mess, that in part they left me, and in part I created myself.
I am going to do it. Enough is enough. I can't live like this any longer, my younger daughter does not need to be exposed to it, and my older daughter will eventually have to understand that the party is over, so to speak.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
468
83
#45
You 'sometimes' punish, but most of the time do nothing. And verbally correcting her obviously has no effect, so why do you keep expecting it to? The key to disciplining children is consistency. Which you yourself have shown you do not use towards your daughter. Right now your daughter knows that, most of the time, she gets away with whatever she wants. And *gasp, she does and says whatever she wants!
Not meaning this to be insulting, but it's a truth... you sound like you need to grow a pair. You let your wife dominate you. Now you let your daughter rule you. If you let your wife do that to you, is it any idea where your daughter learned it from? Your 9 year old daughter runs your life and all you can do is come on here and 'gosh i don't know what i'm doing wrong'. What you're doing wrong is letting a 9 year old run the house and run you. How about setting some Real rules? Some real boundaries? Some real punishments? Try being consistent. Try being firm. Try sitting down and communicating with your daughter, instead of sending her to strangers to do it for you. Not that i'm against therapy, but for kids, that's only part of the solution.
And if you have her seeing two, then either you need to have found out that she has been diagnosed, by both, with some sort of mental disorder. Otherwise you are not helping her, and may be damaging her. If she feels that she is so bad and wrong of a person that she needs two counselors, then she may simply continue acting in a way that she feels she is viewed. Very common for kids and adults to act in the way they think they are perceived.
If your daughter has actually been diagnosed with a mental disorder then you need to be talking to the counselors too. Learning all about the condition, what to expect and the best way to handle her and her behavior.
It's also been established that people with mental disorders in 'advanced' societies like the US have a lower recovery rate than people in poor countries that live in villages and don't have access to mental health professionals. The reason? In the US and similar countries people with mental disorders are set apart and viewed as a problem, and treated differently. In poorer countries people with mental disorders are expected to work, pitch in to the village and otherwise treated normally. Because their mental disorder does not cause them to be separated from the society, they don't feel as an outsider, and conform to the role expected of them. This is healing. Those who are so bad they are not capable of living up to those standards are viewed as shaman. This is most common in schizoprenics, but i think there's an overall lesson about how we treat people and how it affects them.
If your daughter does well in school, but only acts like this at home, that pretty much proves it's not a mental condition though. It's not borderline anything. It just means she knows how she can act at school, and how she can act at home. Since most kids will push to get away with as much as possible, that's what she's doing.
I don't know the details of your married life, but she obviously has some bitterness towards you about it. Perhaps sit and talk with her about it. Or ask to go into one of the counseling sessions and plan out to have the counselor help this discussion.
It's time to take the reins back from your 9 year old daughter, stand up, be a man and a father and a leader. This isn't to say be dominating and controlling, it simply means to be in charge, and leave no doubt. It means to communicate. To take action. To DO something about your situation, not watch it happen to you. To quit making excuses for your daughter and learn the difference between being understanding and giving a little grace to a special situation (her mother dying) and being an enabler. It's not about breaking anyones spirit, it's about being a parent. Discipline is about teaching children right and wrong and learning consequences. Doesn't mean you have to break their spirit in order to do that. You're damaging her now. Discipline done properly would put an end to the damage you're causing her by letting her run wild, which you are basically doing. If you don't teach her now, in love, then someone who doesn't love her will put her in her place one day. And that will be way more damaging.
Love isn't passive, it's active. Sometimes it's gentle, but sometimes it's tough.
Your avatar was making me laugh.
I do 'have a pair'. I did confront my wife about what I needed to. Some people are just not mentally all there, and the parameters that apply to most people don't apply to them. Trust me, I know, I lived it.
As far as just about everything else in your post, I agree. Read my previous posts.
Your right, I do have to be more consistent in what I do with her. I am helping to create a monster, and I am responsible.
Children are pliable, more so then adults, usually, and they are also resilient. She won't break, and I need a break from her outbursts.
I am glad I came on here. The posts have clarified what I was sub consciously thinking but not acting on or putting into conscience thought. I was trying to much to honor my wife's style of parenting, and my mother-in-laws, and duh, I should have just looked at them to see how well that worked. Or just remembered that whatever the situation is now with my daughter, it was even a lot worse when my wife was alive.
I know that I was raised to be respectful, and even though I have had my ups and downs, I have generally been a asset where ever I am or who I am with. And some of that is attributable to me being raised to respect others.
Thank you. These posts have given me a new conviction and attitude about the whole situation. It is like a fog has been lifted.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
468
83
#46
I had a friend when I was 19 or so and she had a friend. She cut herself, had borderline, her brother just killed himself and her mother just died from cancer. She didn't want anything to do with deliverance. She was in a mental institution, they put her in an isolation cell all the time. When she was free she'd try to jump in front of a train. She drove those people nuts.
Then we went on a holiday with the 3 of us. She said: What if I cut myself or try to commit suicide? My friend said: When you're with me you just simply act normal.
She did. Great 3 weeks, totally normal, relaxed.
The guy from the Gadarenes couldn't control himself but most people and kids are perfectly able if they have to. And you can simply pray for her, but don't just accept behavior and think she can't help it.
I could very well be enabling my daughter. As a previous poster said, if she can act properly in school, then she can at home to. I just have to make her understand of what is expected of her. I have some cleaning up work from the last 4 or 5 years to do.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
468
83
#47
Hi,

I want to give you a different perspective from the others yet.
To me it looks like this:

Your daughter is very very afraid. Afraid of people (you) leaving.
Her "punishing" you is her way to see and believe, that you love her and will
stay with her.
She lost her mom. Her grandma (and mom before) told her (when she could hear),
that you are not good. So the people, she loves tell her that you are not good, but
you are good, you are her father and guardian. To a 9 year old that is very confusing.

When my mom died, a whole world for me died with her (and I was 39).

When she acts out, you get sad, tell her to go to her room,
talk to her about her behaviour, you are the "bad" guy and that is
consistent with the worldview, she remembers from her mom.

Love her ! And tell her as often and until she believes it, that you will
ALWAYS be there for you, that she can love her mom and grandma
and still also love you !

And that she can stop wth her acting out of hurt (because her mom is gone
and yes because she has to stop believing some of the things her mom told
about you), that you understand and that you will accept an apology every time
and that all of that, will never change the fact, that she can build upon you
Not Leaving her, Not stop Loving her.

Because she is trying very hard to make you, so that the hurt will be gone.

Praying for you and you two daughters !!!!!
Another excellent post. I will and have loved her, and have let her know I will always be there, always will love her. I have told her that. I will continue to be sensitive to her emotions.
I always accept her apology.
I have told her she can love all three of us.
I know she is testing me.
I also have to be more firm and consistent and set more defined boundaries.
I appreciate the prayers.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#48
I don't agree with what you started off with, about generational curses, I think behaviors do get passed on from one generation to the next.
I do agree that she is not demon possessed.
I said in a previous post she is not my friend, nor do I want her to be. I said, I am her parent.
I have been thinking of apologizing to her, and I will. As no said, no details, no sense in getting into it.
I do things with her that she is interested in, maybe not enough.
I do reward good behavior. I believe I am there for her.
I did not divorce my wife. What kind of Christian man would divorce a woman with cancer? Even if she didn't have cancer, I would not have divorced her.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you said in the post. I have been praying and thinking about the posts here, and I had come to the same conclusion. Her mom is dead a year. The mourning period has passed. She has received grace. She needs more clearly defined boundaries, I have to clean up the mess, that in part they left me, and in part I created myself.
I am going to do it. Enough is enough. I can't live like this any longer, my younger daughter does not need to be exposed to it, and my older daughter will eventually have to understand that the party is over, so to speak.

Quote "I have been thinking of apologizing to her, and I will. As no said, no details, no sense in getting into it.

I did not divorce my wife. What kind of Christian man would divorce a woman with cancer? Even if she didn't have cancer, I would not have divorced her.


I don't really care to hear details you dont want to share, but it was unclear to me why your daughter thought you were mean to her mom.I missed something somewhere. I assumed there had been a divorce before the mother took sick.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
468
83
#49
Quote "I have been thinking of apologizing to her, and I will. As no said, no details, no sense in getting into it.

I did not divorce my wife. What kind of Christian man would divorce a woman with cancer? Even if she didn't have cancer, I would not have divorced her.


I don't really care to hear details you dont want to share, but it was unclear to me why your daughter thought you were mean to her mom.I missed something somewhere. I assumed there had been a divorce before the mother took sick.
Okay, Gotcha...
 
C

coby

Guest
#50
My oldest son used to get very mad at the youngest and just kick him. The little one did start, but he overreacted and thought he was right. I sent him to his room and it was not tolerated at all. He'd go on if I didn't stop him. But then afterwards he cried and I said I loved him and explained that he simply couldn't do that but tell me and I'll send him to his room and once I prayed for him afterwards and just sent that anger away in Jesus' Name.
Just do both. My ex learned that in the Bible school. When you have disciplined them afterwards say you love 'em and give 'em a hug.
Lol also when he was younger and wanted negative attention I'd just say: hey if you want attention you can just get some positive lol.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#51
I make them both apologize and send the younger to his room too...other wise it's unfair and kids have a strong sense of justice.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#52
My ten year old son's favorite thing to say is "but I didn't do anything wrong"
Feel like a detective some days trying to sort out the truth...most of the time I tell the if they can't play nice together to play alone in their rooms.

Still can't figure out why they hardly ever take me up on that and would rather play together..my daughter is 7.

Anyway, no advice just wanted to say hi and will keep praying for you and your family.

Good thing about kids...it's easy for them to learn and they like making you happy.

They don't want to dissappoint you, but if they have low self esteem and don't think they can please you, they stop trying.

When working with kids I just meet we play a game where they learn to win and lose gracefully.

Have them cheer for their teammates wins, etc.

It works for cubscouts. They love games and I like the team building ones where they have to work together to win.

Perhaps family building activities?

Mine like to camp, ride bikes, go swimming, zoo, aquarium, play dates with friends, bowling, beach, hiking, painting, etc.
 
M

mrdesire

Guest
#53
My wife died about a year ago. She had breast cancer for five years. We had been married for almost 10 years.
We have two girls, one is now seven, the other nine.
The seven year old is very loving, very demonstrative with her feelings, very sensitive. She talks freely about her feelings. She is a pleasure to be around, and easy to raise.
My nine year old is very talkative, very smart, very pragmatic, and is just the opposite of the seven year old, emotionally speaking. She does not like to share her feelings, and is not much of a huger or kisser. She loves to sing, and is very creative in a artistic way, Just about anything she puts her mind to, be it cooking, or sewing, or physical activity, she picks up fairly quickly, and does it well. I wish I had half her talents.
The relationship between my wife and I was rocky for many years, and we argued a lot. My mother-in-law lived with us for about 7 of those 10 years.
My wife often argued, yelled at me, and often put me down in front of the girls. My mother-in-law would straight out tell my now nine year old not to listen to me, and what a bad guy I was, etc.Not to mention she would tell her whole side of the family what a rotten guy I was, usually when she was on the phone, while my daughter was present.
My daughter would openly punch and hit me for years, on a regular basis, besides being rude, not listening much to me, and really just staying away from me. My wife and mother-in-law, while telling her not to do it, would not usually go much beyond a light verbal reprimand.
She has not skipped a beat in school, despite her moms death, and is generally very pragmatic, and responsible, and goes about her daily routines the same now as she did before her mom died. I keep her busy with after school gymnastics, and guitar lessons, things she likes to, and wants to, do. She is a ravenous reader, reading about two 150 to 200 page books a month.
So now here we are, my nine year old, while she has stopped hitting me, and listens to me a lot more then she previously did, still challenges me at a verbal level on a consistent basis. She also has told me that I treated her mom meanly, that she thinks my younger daughter gets to much attention, and that we need a woman in the house. She has told me she does not like males. My older son, 31 years old, from my first marriage has been living with us for about 4 months, and she has made it clear she does not want him there. My mother, and my friends have sometimes been over to visit, and she tells me, and sometimes them, she does not want them there. She antagonizes my son, hits him, and generally is insulting and rude to him. She is sometimes rude to my friends, when they come over, which is actually not that often.
She keeps things bottled up, rarely, if ever mentions her mom, and is a bit high strung.
Just last night she was so rude to a friend of mine, that he actually told my daughter, straight to her face, not with raising his voice, but firmly, told her she was rude, and don't dare talk to him like that.
Last week, I had a major argument with another friend, and indeed our friendship may be over, because, in part, of my daughters behavior. My friend does not think I am tough enough, and I said I am continually correcting her, I sometimes put her in her room, I sometimes deny privilege's, she is seeing two different therapists for about 5 months now, one provided by the school, the other on the outside. My daughter was rude to my friend, and I told my daughter to apologize, and she did, but with a grudging attitude. So I sent her to her room, and she went in a fit. My friend then told me that my daughter is a brat, that she is very disrespectful and rude to just about everyone, and that I don't do enough. That my daughter does not appreciate all the sacrifices I make and all I do for her.
I told my friend that I generally don't believe in hitting them, and that I also do not want to discipline for every time she acts up, because, to be blunt, then she would be in a almost continual state of being disciplined. I told my friend that I don't want to break her spirit, that my daughter is stubborn and strong willed by just her innate nature, and that I doubt I can change that, and neither do I want to, that I just a loving, civil, functional working relationship in our home. I said that my daughters high intelligence level, she is in the high 140 IQ range, seems to make it tougher, not easier, for me. And obviously, her mom died only 13 months ago, so that is a factor.
So my friend, who was visiting from another state, cut the visit short, and instead of staying 5 days, left after 3 days, the next morning. And my daughter told me she was happy my friend was going, and smiled when she left.
I am at the point, where really, to be transparent, I often do not enjoy her company. I love her of course, but she wearies me with her constant questions that many times are just often designed to get attention, or annoy me. and if this continues as the years roll on, I am expecting a full blown rebellion from my daughter. If she can be insubordinate now, what does the teenage years look like? And I am also concerned that she may one day hurt herself.
I pray for my children, I am raising my daughters as Christians, I read the bible to them almost every day, I am trying to be a good example for them in my life, I take them to church with me every Sunday.
I am really at a loss. I feel like I am just constantly putting out bush fires with my daughter. She can be so very mature at times, but then can often act well below her age level and can over respond to some simple situations just so inappropriately. Yelling and and having fits and blaming me for things that I sometimes have no control over. It has come to the point where I do not even want to have friends over, as I hold my breath thinking what will she do to make them feel unwanted.
You have a sweet heart, and I can imagine how your mother in law is. I'm sorry about your wife, she sounds very sweet too. I can't really say anything about your daughter other than to keep trying new things, but I'm sure you're doing that.