Judge this abortion case
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Z
yes we can stop goverment, if you all wern't scard too, but just sit back and wait, the goverment will kill you soon.
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Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Quoting Cesare Beccaria)
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits.
No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him.
To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.
I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. (Back then!)
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
The god who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.
And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter.
In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all.
The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.
When wrongs are pressed because it is believed they will be borne, resistance becomes morality.
Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add “within the limits of the law,” because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately.
Liberty is the great parent of science and of virtue; and a nation will be great in both in proportion as it is free.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
I have never been able to conceive how any rational being could propose happiness to himself from the exercise of power over others.
To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
In a government bottomed on the will of all, the...liberty of every individual citizen becomes interesting to all.
I’m a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Most bad government has grown out of too much government.
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.
A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.
I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.
The right of self-government does not comprehend the government of others.
An elective despotism was not the government we fought for.
History, in general, only informs us what bad government is.
If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest.
It is better to tolerate that rare instance of a parent’s refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings by a forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of his father.
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.
The man who reads nothing at all is better than educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Quoting Cesare Beccaria)
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits.
No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him.
To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.
I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. (Back then!)
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
The god who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.
And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter.
In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all.
The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.
When wrongs are pressed because it is believed they will be borne, resistance becomes morality.
Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add “within the limits of the law,” because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
It is strangely absurd to suppose that a million of human beings, collected together, are not under the same moral laws which bind each of them separately.
Liberty is the great parent of science and of virtue; and a nation will be great in both in proportion as it is free.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
I have never been able to conceive how any rational being could propose happiness to himself from the exercise of power over others.
To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
In a government bottomed on the will of all, the...liberty of every individual citizen becomes interesting to all.
I’m a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Most bad government has grown out of too much government.
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.
A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.
I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.
Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.
The right of self-government does not comprehend the government of others.
An elective despotism was not the government we fought for.
History, in general, only informs us what bad government is.
If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest.
It is better to tolerate that rare instance of a parent’s refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings by a forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of his father.
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.
The man who reads nothing at all is better than educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty.
Z
I believe in:
- We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
- We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
- We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
- We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
- We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
- We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
- We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
- We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
- We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
- We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
- We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
- We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
- We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
if you don't agree with this thats your right, But attacking me becuase of my right is wrong, and your not a Christian at all.
What about if someone is already born and has brain damage or other physical problems? Would you be justified in crushing the person's skull or giving them an overdose of salt to kill them to save them from a terrible? You could go around 'helping' people with downs syndrome, people in wheel chairs and little old ladies with knee problems.
What if someone thinks your life is terrible?
What if someone thinks your life is terrible?
Z
this is my left hand, Docs wanted me destroyed, mom and dad said no. I am now retired. I was a Firefighter, a Medic, and was in law-enforcement, and finely government. I saved many lives, what if I was killed. How many others would have die too because i was not there to save them. My wife put that ring on my left hand. An i love her dearly.
You said
Then who does? Are you suggesting That God has nothing to do with a person becoming pregnant? Know you not that to be able to get pregnant is a blessing from God? Are you suggesting that satan creates life? Some would say yes, because the anti-christ will be born. But of a Truth even the anti-christ being born is the will of God, that that evil wicked entity is born. It will be the will of God that that woman does not abort the anti-christ, which God ordained would come to pass.
In you post you said something that is confusing to me. you said opposed to what, an abnormal circumstance? Yet you end with saying: Like for example a person that was raped and became pregnant, correct? That would not be a normal circumstance, yet you then say God can take what went wrong and make it serve His greater purpose.
So then according to your own logic, ANY situation is not a good one for abortion, because God can turn something wrong into serving His purpose, correct?
^i^
In you post you said something that is confusing to me. you said opposed to what, an abnormal circumstance? Yet you end with saying: Like for example a person that was raped and became pregnant, correct? That would not be a normal circumstance, yet you then say God can take what went wrong and make it serve His greater purpose.
So then according to your own logic, ANY situation is not a good one for abortion, because God can turn something wrong into serving His purpose, correct?
^i^
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And how do you know, that that person was not born that way by God, to test those around him?
One day i was sitting outside with another co-worker taking lunch, i, like always was talking about the Bible and Spiritual things. A little ways over down the wall, two others were taking lunch as well. He was getting more and more agitated by our discussion. About 3/4 into lunch break, he interrupts our conversation and says to me "Tell preacher man, if you are so knowledgeable on Spiritual matters, Why did God make my son retarded? Immediately the Spirit filled me and i said "He made your son the way that he is to test you and your wife, and those who will be around him. Your son is already Heaven bound and his fate is sealed, But God allowed you to have Him, to see if you would turn away from God and Blame Him. So to answer your question, it is to test you and your wife. The man stood up stared at me for a moment then walked off. i had to ask the guy next to me, what did i just say, i had no clue what just came out of my mouth. At the end of the day that man was waiting for me by my car, you can't miss it, it looks like a Jesus Freak drives it. He said to me, with tears forming in his eyes, I have asked many people that question, and what you told changed my life in dealing with this situation.
So then in the above situation that you give, are you suggesting that the damaged child should have been killed before it was born, so as to not cause the woman grief, misery, pain, or whatever else the woman was feeling? Maybe just maybe, the woman should change how she deals with the damage child.
^i^
One day i was sitting outside with another co-worker taking lunch, i, like always was talking about the Bible and Spiritual things. A little ways over down the wall, two others were taking lunch as well. He was getting more and more agitated by our discussion. About 3/4 into lunch break, he interrupts our conversation and says to me "Tell preacher man, if you are so knowledgeable on Spiritual matters, Why did God make my son retarded? Immediately the Spirit filled me and i said "He made your son the way that he is to test you and your wife, and those who will be around him. Your son is already Heaven bound and his fate is sealed, But God allowed you to have Him, to see if you would turn away from God and Blame Him. So to answer your question, it is to test you and your wife. The man stood up stared at me for a moment then walked off. i had to ask the guy next to me, what did i just say, i had no clue what just came out of my mouth. At the end of the day that man was waiting for me by my car, you can't miss it, it looks like a Jesus Freak drives it. He said to me, with tears forming in his eyes, I have asked many people that question, and what you told changed my life in dealing with this situation.
So then in the above situation that you give, are you suggesting that the damaged child should have been killed before it was born, so as to not cause the woman grief, misery, pain, or whatever else the woman was feeling? Maybe just maybe, the woman should change how she deals with the damage child.
^i^
Love of the game shines in Lawrenceburg Buddy Ball - WSMV Channel 4
I had the great privilege to assist with "Buddy Ball" The link provided has a video that the local news showed last Friday.
Every one of these kids have a mental or physical disability. Some of them have both. Some can't speak, walk, or function properly. It's obvious some of these kids don't have a great "quality of life"
Watch the video on the link and tell me those kids should have been killed in the womb.
Look at the smiles on their faces. Notice their innocence. Their happiness. Look at their fans and pay attention to what some of them have to say and how they give glory to God.
These children are a gift from God. Every single one of them.
I had the great privilege to assist with "Buddy Ball" The link provided has a video that the local news showed last Friday.
Every one of these kids have a mental or physical disability. Some of them have both. Some can't speak, walk, or function properly. It's obvious some of these kids don't have a great "quality of life"
Watch the video on the link and tell me those kids should have been killed in the womb.
Look at the smiles on their faces. Notice their innocence. Their happiness. Look at their fans and pay attention to what some of them have to say and how they give glory to God.
These children are a gift from God. Every single one of them.
Question, if it is OK to abort a life that appears like it is going to be deformed, why is it not OK to abort people who are deformed, retarded, vegetables, coma, or any other impairment that they can't function in life? My point is this, just because a fetus appears that it will be deformed, does not mean it will not have a full productive life, you are only assuming that it would not. There are thousands of children born deformed, and still have a full productive life. So then the question is, how can you approve an abortion of a deformed fetus, when you don't have a clue what kind of life that deformed child will have. Know you not that the body can be 100% deformed, yet the brain 100% normal? Just because a fetus looks like it will be born deformed, does not mean that person can't have a life, What if God decides to born a genius in a deformed body?
i am only saying just because a fetus looks like it will be born defective is No reason to abort the child. This about this. God did not allow that couple to become pregnant, so they could choose to destroy it because it is deformed.
Tell me does a Mother and Father love a normal child MORE then a Mother and Father could love a deformed one? What happen to women saying "This is going to be my child, I will LOVE it no matter what condition it comes into the world" Wow what LOVE that mother has for the child, that child will be very fortunate to have that mother regardless what condition it comes into the world as.
Because it is deformed, is a very poor excuse to execute a child. And God sees it that way also.
^i^
i am only saying just because a fetus looks like it will be born defective is No reason to abort the child. This about this. God did not allow that couple to become pregnant, so they could choose to destroy it because it is deformed.
Tell me does a Mother and Father love a normal child MORE then a Mother and Father could love a deformed one? What happen to women saying "This is going to be my child, I will LOVE it no matter what condition it comes into the world" Wow what LOVE that mother has for the child, that child will be very fortunate to have that mother regardless what condition it comes into the world as.
Because it is deformed, is a very poor excuse to execute a child. And God sees it that way also.
^i^
This logic is in error. For if the baby grows up and KNOWS that it has a terrible life, then that baby is intelligent enough to KNOW that his/her life is terrible. Therefore that baby will also be capable of loving others and visa versa. If the baby doesn't know that his/her life is terrible, than how can that baby KNOW they have a terrible life?
The Truth of the matter is, it is the parents who do not want to deal with the situation, and it is just easier to abort the baby, and use the reasoning that it is deformed and will have a terrible life, so as to release their guilt of making the decision to abort the child. AND not be burdened with a deformed child to take care of, maybe the next one will be normal.
Tell me, how many NORMAL babies are born that have a terrible life? Therefore having a terrible life or not having a terrible life should not be a factor in determining if a life should live or be aborted.
^i^
The Truth of the matter is, it is the parents who do not want to deal with the situation, and it is just easier to abort the baby, and use the reasoning that it is deformed and will have a terrible life, so as to release their guilt of making the decision to abort the child. AND not be burdened with a deformed child to take care of, maybe the next one will be normal.
Tell me, how many NORMAL babies are born that have a terrible life? Therefore having a terrible life or not having a terrible life should not be a factor in determining if a life should live or be aborted.
^i^
i don't at all, that mother is going to blessed by God, not only in this life, but in Heaven as well. She knew full well what the doctors were saying, and she chose to have the baby anyways. Seems to me in the video, that she loves her baby very much. It does however reveal a lot to me about you, concerning your statement you feel so terribly sorry for that mother. This reveals to me why you adamantly defend your position that deformed babies should be aborted, because if you were in that mothers position, you would not act as she is, you would want empathy from people, oh poor me, my child is born without a brain, Feel sorry for me, even as you now feel sorry for that mother. i seen the video, it seems to me she is pretty happy with her little man, tell me why do you feel sorry for her again?
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P
Let the child live who is to say what will be the future of the child. There is nothing new under the sun so that is not the first baby to have such complications. There are those who are born deaf and blind, no limbs, holes in heart etc and they live a full life. It sounds to me that they see the child as a burden and not as a blessing. Abortion regardless of circumstances is wrong it is murder.
Anyone on this thread advocating aborting a baby that may be born with disabilities please read this story and soften your heart.
Hundreds answer church's Facebook plea to adopt baby with Down Syndrome | Fox News
Hundreds answer church's Facebook plea to adopt baby with Down Syndrome | Fox News