My opinion on sparing the rod.

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Matthew4Jesus

Matthew4Jesus

Senior Member
#41
May 7, 2011
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#41
I semi agree with that... however I have made my own...


If a child lives with criticism, he learns what's right and how to become a better person...

If a child lives with hostility, he learns to fight…

If a child lives with fear, he learns to be apprehensive…

If a child lives with pity, he learns to feel sorry for himself…

If a child lives with ridicule, he learns to be shy…

If a child lives with jealousy, he learns to feel guilt…

But…

If a child lives with tolerance, he learns to be patient… or he takes advantage of it...

If a child lives with encouragement, he struggles in life when there is no one to encourage him...

If a child lives with praise, he learns to be appreciative…

If a child lives with acceptance, he learns to love…

If a child lives with honesty, he learns what truth is…

If a child lives with fairness, he learns justice… however he will also struggle when he sees things that are unfair happening to him or someone else

If a child lives with security, he learns to have faith in himself and those about him…

If a child lives with friendliness, he learns the world is a nice place in which to live...

Not trying to get at what you've written, I think it's really good :)
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#42
#42
All opinions contrary to God's word are simply wrong! To teach contrary to God's stated view is to teach false doctrine.

BUT one should have ALL information from God in this realm before drawing conclusions.
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#43
Sep 5, 2011
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#43
Steve4U said:
I agree.

Especially with Julianna's comment too.

There is a huge difference between a rebuke accompanied by physical contact and discipline with no structure or thought, at the whim of mum or dad.

So it's an important point the real motivation of the parents,their conciousness of the child and the context of the action etc. I think that is where we would find the right and wrong of this situation.

So looking back to the oringinal post, I think it's pretty good, a good summary of desireable and undesireable attitudes.

I wonder what effect outlawing physical discipline has had in the longer term in UK, USA, Australia and Norway.

.
Click to expand...
Thanks, the point I was really making was simply that I don't think the rod was meant as a physical punishment. I always thought it was meant to be like the iron will, unbending will idea.
I think if physical punishment is fully outlawed it will lead to a lot of people being arrested.
I am not totally against spanking as a last resort, I just think that many parents rely on it and use it as the only correction, I think the punishment needs to fit the crime.
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#44
Sep 5, 2011
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#44
Matthew4Jesus said:
I semi agree with that... however I have made my own...


If a child lives with criticism, he learns what's right and how to become a better person...
Click to expand...
I think that the point made in the original is constant criticism, imagine constantly being told you didnt do that right, you are not good enough.

A child needs a balance, the poem doesnt say never criticise, its talking about living with, if you catch my drift.
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#45
Sep 5, 2011
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#45
Slepsog4 said:
All opinions contrary to God's word are simply wrong! To teach contrary to God's stated view is to teach false doctrine.

BUT one should have ALL information from God in this realm before drawing conclusions.
Click to expand...
Are you sure its contrary?
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#46
#46
When God speaks, and he cannot lie, all opposing views are wrong! Contrary is opposing.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#47
Jul 19, 2011
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#47
OHhhh this is about spanking?

Well, I spank my son. I believe in it. I live by it. He also is not a negative and disruptive child that is abusive to others.

Nuff said.
 
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seraphprincess

Senior Member
#48
Sep 5, 2011
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#48
I can't stand it when I go to the store and hear little children screaming at the top of their lungs. THere is no excuse for being so loud, they do it just to be bad and aggravate adults. It is nerve raking, and the parents do nothing about it, they just let the children scream, they don't even tell them to stop, or no don't do that. I heard of one restaurant that had a ban, a sign saying no screaming children allowed, to make things more pleasant for elderly and childless couples dining at the restaurant. Kids were allowed only if they behaved themselves. WHy don't parents discipline their kids anymore? Good for you parents, especially Christians, who still discipline and correctly teach your children. I hate seeing spoiled brats throwing temper tantrums in stores, and nobody bothering to correct them. WHen they get to be teenagers they are nightmares because they have never been disciplined.
 
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seraphprincess

Senior Member
#49
Sep 5, 2011
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#49
SPanking is not the only form of punishment for misbehaving children. You can use time out and grounding. Or take away their toys. When I was a child my parents disciplined me, my parents and family is Christian, my parents are very good and loving, I was spanked on a few occasions. My parents were strict but they did spoil me and give me a lot. I still live with them.


CHildren need to feel loved. The idea is eventually they will learn self discpline as adults.
 
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Steve4U

Guest
#50
#50
(That's awesome Matthew)

I'm sure in favour of non-physical intervention, like Supernanny, in nearly all situations, and if you start early it saves stress and drama for everyone.

But I resent the clumsy involvement of governments, and seculars - with a hidden agenda - in households because of actually a whole separate thing: kids getting bashed.

I'm sure we all here have a loving attitude and want the best for our kids and are not in that category or anything near it. Yet these clumsy laws have come in, and a lot of attitudes about physical contact. Whereas a proper discernment of the issue splits it a different way - on the love, thought and concern of the parents. And that's outside the concern, right or expertise of any government.

.
 
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Steve4U

Guest
#51
#51
That's where many Christians are standing on the issue, but I'm not going to hijack the thread.

Returning to attitudes and the practice of parenting, I have a story for you.

Friends of mine had a baby boy, then a girl, then adopted a local boy (who became the oldest), then another girl; then another girl, then a boy, then -- you remember that crisis in Romania? -- 2 baby boys; then -- you remember the civil war in Sierra Leone? -- 2 girls, then finally a little India girl from a Pacific Island. It's quite easy to get a big family if you want. (5 of their own, and 6 adopted is the count)

Anyway, they had to be organised. Everyone had their chores and I think it used to run pretty well on the little farm, with a few of nearly every animal you can think of, and home schooling, and cooking, and gardening, and games, and I had many, many idylic days there myself.

Now mum, Linda, had a philosophy that we parents are not there to provide our children with all the fun they can possibly have. In fact a bit of adversity is character-building. And in fact sometimes she just made it turn out that way.

Now this was child-focused.

Each one of those children has gone on to happiness and success. They never even realise they're working when they're working, never grumble in any strait or hard times, and always have a happy disposition for all.

.
 
Matthew4Jesus

Matthew4Jesus

Senior Member
#53
May 7, 2011
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#53
leelee said:
I think that the point made in the original is constant criticism, imagine constantly being told you didnt do that right, you are not good enough.

A child needs a balance, the poem doesnt say never criticise, its talking about living with, if you catch my drift.
Click to expand...
I understand, thanks for correcting me :)
 
J

jimsun

Guest
#55
#55
Hi leelee - Whereabouts over the Border are you? We may not be that far off one another.

I found your piece really intereting - Never seen it before, anywhere.

I feel I grew up in an era of capital punishment - Dad would take his belt to me, rarely & I had to have done something mega-serious to warrant it. Consequently, my bum was spared his wrath more often than not!
School, too, reigned via. The Punishment Book, Belt & Cane. A dozen consecutive beltings attracted a caning. However I have truly never felt "abused" by that system. I feel I am capable of dishing out punishment , a la Grandad, to our kids & 'though I've never had to do so, they know what may happen were they to mirror some of my actions of their age.
I'm grateful & lucky that our relationship with our two is an honest, open & truthful one. Discipline comes via a series of measures ranging from a mere, but no holds barred, change in the tone of voice to groundings, preventing attendance at specific, long-awaited & eagerly anticipated events like concerts, parties or football matchs. (We know where to hurt 'em most, without even touching them!).
Having police officer friends also helps. Eg; the kids know that, were they ever to dabble in drink/drugs, I would drag them up to the Custody Suite myself!
I've said I'm thankful for our relationship with our kids. It's open, forthright & we have no secrets. Our dinner table is our own parliamentary despatch box- Everythinng is discussed/debated over the evening meal& tier friends squabble over who comes for sleep-overs as my wife & I ate thought to be the coolest "oldies" @ high school!!
Our kids cannot comit any transgression that can't be sorted. It's important that they know this & can take refuge in that knowledge. They aren't allowed to worry about exams, for example, & all we ask of them is "relax, enjoy the exam & do your best" - Nothing more.
After my brain injury our kids grew up quickly. At 10 & 11 they became my caters on occasions when Mum is unavailable. They know exactly what to do & when, when Dad suffers a big seizure or, heaven forbid, goes into Status Epilepticus, requiring rescue medication via syringe.
As a result, they too have- quite literay - saved me from "shaking hands with Peter"(!) on more than one occasion.
Such experiences kinda irons things out between us & discipline really isn't a problem as knowing they've hurt me or Mum on a rare occasion serves as enough!
J.
 
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Relena7

Guest
#56
#56
The title of this thread makes me a bit sad. :( I don't think spanking is a good thing for just every kid. Some of them may have learning differences like ADHD, and spanking or hitting can just make things worse for these sensitive individuals. Especially if they don't seem to be learning from it in the same way as their sibling or other kids, and just "get hit all the time".
To a sensitive child, being hit can feel like being violated.

I think if they repeatedly slip up, then it's definitely time to try communicating to them in a way they are best able to learn, instead of "spanking them more, or harder". I have a soft spot for the sensitive kids out there that learn differently, because I myself was one of those kids. Being spanked did nothing for me, aside from teach me to hit my little brother when I was angry, lol.

Time-out and losing TV privileges worked better for me anyway.
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#58
Sep 5, 2011
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#58
Jimsun, I am in glasgow just now but actually from Shetland.
Relena7, why does the title make you sad? Did you read the OP?
 
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Relena7

Guest
#59
#59
leelee said:
Relena7, why does the title make you sad? Did you read the OP?
Click to expand...
I did read and like the OP. :)


The title made me sad because I knew this thread would attract all kinds of people saying smacking little children for being naughty is good. Then use bible verses and stories from the "good old days" to back it up.

The idea of that kind of discipline still being around today is upsetting to me.

When I hear about or see people hit a kid, no matter what the kid did to "deserve it" part of my soul hurts.
I watched ONLY 3 seconds of that video that lifeslight linked, and it took me hours to get that girl's horrible screams out of my head...


(I almost feel like I should be apologizing for being so opinionated here...I don't usually feel so strongly about things).
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#60
Sep 5, 2011
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#60
Relena, you are, in my opinion, right to a degree.

Obviously child abuse is wrong, disapline is not but it is easy to let a temper get the better of you. I posted sot so much about spanking but about the entire way children are critisised etc. I have long thought that the verse on sparing the rod is metaphorical. It says elsewhere the God has will like a rod of iron and I always thought that the verse on sparing the rod was more to do with unbending will, firmness.
 
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