My opinion on sparing the rod.

[MrsSunflower]

^ Still; there are so many parents also that either does it in extremes or that punish out of anger and not out of love. Same as with you shall honour your father and mother, it is a very typcal sentence abusive parents can use against their children, whilst it is not how God intended that verse to be used in such a way.

 

[Loved]

I do not think I got enough spankings as a child. I did get some, but most likely not enough.

In my teens I got stupid, real stupid. I removed myself (not deny) totally away from Him, needless to say, my police record shows proof.

I think (I maybe wrong) that if my parents would have gone to Church (before and after the divorce) and given me the punishment I deserved, instead of making excuses for me and getting me out of trouble. My record would either not exist or would be a lot shorter.

I use to be ashamed of my past, not any more. It is part of my Testimony, I appreciate the Blood of Christ, that paid for my sin, even more. He paid a huge debt for me. Thank You Jesus. I strive to be like You.

(Sorry for any mis-spelled word, not only am I lacking in this ability, my keyboard is starting to go crazy from time to time.)

 

[leelee]

Oh your one of those..SPANKING KIDS IS CHILD ABUSE!!!!!!! Kinda people ... yeaaaah most people who dont have kids feel that way

no i am not. i was spanked. that is not what the poem says.

 

[leelee]

Proverbs 13:24
24He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
I do believe in the fact child see child do.
The Child can SEE that they cannot act however they want without consequence. Kind of like how life works. I do agree different kids need different methods. But if there's one method that's Biblical approved it is this one.
Sources : Holy Bible
Now there is biblical methods of how to do correction. Out of Love and not anger.
Now lets do some common sense. If the Bible supports spanking your children and you think its wrong. WHO is wrong?
Proverbs 3:5
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Let's not pretend to know more then God.

Actually I think that what that verse means is a will like an iron rod not a literal rod. Like Jesus. He didn't hit people. Especially not children.
And for one of the earlier posts...yes constructive criticism is needed. That was not disputed. The point is if a child is always being told they are wrong or not good enough they will spend their lives trying to find fault with others.

 

[Ugly]

yup

"Children see, children do"

Parents are to be role models to their children, my belief is, if you hit them, in any way, you tell them hitting is OK if the other person is not sharing your view on things

Well, I'm living proof that's not true. I was spanked, and I've never hit anyone. My brother and sisters were spanked as well, they are not violent people. I have a friend who spanked her three children, they are not violent, and don't hit people. So much for that little theory. There is actually zero proof that spanking causes children to hit others. That's just something people who don't believe in spanking say to defend their position, even though that support is nothing but personal opinion.
I've yet to meet anyone who was correctly spanked, and was in any way negatively affected. The problem is not in spanking, but in people who don't understand how to spank. They do it out of anger, or thinking it's a 'quick fix'. There is a right and wrong way to do it, and if don't properly is not damaging to the child.

 

[xJoe]

Actually I think that what that verse means is a will like an iron rod not a literal rod. Like Jesus. He didn't hit people. Especially not children.
And for one of the earlier posts...yes constructive criticism is needed. That was not disputed. The point is if a child is always being told they are wrong or not good enough they will spend their lives trying to find fault with others.

Ephesians 6:4
4And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Admonition: to reprove or scold, especially in a mild and good-willed manner
There is both love and compassion with this verse and also the iron hand of authority.
For some reason your looking at little pieces of things instead of the whole picture. When did anyone say tell your child hes not good enough? That's not appropriate. Tell them that there actions are not acceptable and if they do them there's consequenses, just like LIFE.
Children need to be praised on good things. They need to be encouraged and brought up on good principles and acknowledged for the good they do.
But Wrong is wrong. There is a line you need to draw with right and wrong, and when they cross it do you just ignore it?
"I don't want them to turn out negative, so ill let them do negative things without telling them there wrong"
That's not in the Bible. I wonder if God treated people that way with sin.
"I don't want my chosen people to grow up negative so im not going to tell them to repent over EVERY SINGLE SIN. I mean they might turn out negative"
Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
You are the example. You are suppose to show them God.
Train up children to be adults. Admire the good and punish the bad. The real world doesn't give breaks, so why should you teach them that they can get them?
You see the point i'm trying to make? I'm not trying to be offensive but if you work with kids constantly you see exactly how this works. You see how the parents directly show how the character develops around there children. The admirable people who teach and practice discipline have easy kids to handle. Don't have to put much effort into correction them while in the program. Kids mainly who grow up without dads and get very pampered by there mothers (not all moms do this but most single moms I have dealt with) are always in need of being corrected.
Not only do they act bad but there a burden at home to deal with. It's a lose lose situation. You lose your child's future and you never gain there respect.
PM me and ill give you at least 5 examples off the top of my head.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
God Chastens (To correct by punishment or reproof) us in many ways. He chastened David for his sins and believers through out the ages. learn from God the fathers method of dealing with Sin. He didn't do it because he hated us but for our own good.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Well, I'm living proof that's not true. I was spanked, and I've never hit anyone. My brother and sisters were spanked as well, they are not violent people. I have a friend who spanked her three children, they are not violent, and don't hit people. So much for that little theory. There is actually zero proof that spanking causes children to hit others. That's just something people who don't believe in spanking say to defend their position, even though that support is nothing but personal opinion.
I've yet to meet anyone who was correctly spanked, and was in any way negatively affected. The problem is not in spanking, but in people who don't understand how to spank. They do it out of anger, or thinking it's a 'quick fix'. There is a right and wrong way to do it, and if don't properly is not damaging to the child.

but: If you are calm enough not to hit in anger, then why not just tell the child off/ remove toys/ send them to the room etc etc?

 

[leelee]

Ephesians 6:4
4And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Admonition: to reprove or scold, especially in a mild and good-willed manner
There is both love and compassion with this verse and also the iron hand of authority.
For some reason your looking at little pieces of things instead of the whole picture. When did anyone say tell your child hes not good enough? That's not appropriate. Tell them that there actions are not acceptable and if they do them there's consequenses, just like LIFE.
Children need to be praised on good things. They need to be encouraged and brought up on good principles and acknowledged for the good they do.
But Wrong is wrong. There is a line you need to draw with right and wrong, and when they cross it do you just ignore it?
"I don't want them to turn out negative, so ill let them do negative things without telling them there wrong"
That's not in the Bible. I wonder if God treated people that way with sin.
"I don't want my chosen people to grow up negative so im not going to tell them to repent over EVERY SINGLE SIN. I mean they might turn out negative"
Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
You are the example. You are suppose to show them God.
Train up children to be adults. Admire the good and punish the bad. The real world doesn't give breaks, so why should you teach them that they can get them?
You see the point i'm trying to make? I'm not trying to be offensive but if you work with kids constantly you see exactly how this works. You see how the parents directly show how the character develops around there children. The admirable people who teach and practice discipline have easy kids to handle. Don't have to put much effort into correction them while in the program. Kids mainly who grow up without dads and get very pampered by there mothers (not all moms do this but most single moms I have dealt with) are always in need of being corrected.
Not only do they act bad but there a burden at home to deal with. It's a lose lose situation. You lose your child's future and you never gain there respect.
PM me and ill give you at least 5 examples off the top of my head.

Proverbs 3:11
My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
God Chastens (To correct by punishment or reproof) us in many ways. He chastened David for his sins and believers through out the ages. learn from God the fathers method of dealing with Sin. He didn't do it because he hated us but for our own good.

I am not only focusing on one small bit, I replied to your quote.I would appreciate it if you would not try to tell me what I think. The bigger picture is that children are precious and ought to be treated as such and the biggest point is that the things that you do can affect the rest of their lives.

You are making seriously sweeping generalizations (not all single parents spoil their children) and I wonder if you know the meaning of the word nurture since you seemed keen to point out the meaning of admonish. And God gave his son for your sin. That's pretty forgiving.

 

[xJoe]

People are so keen to look at Gods forgiveness but they forget about the punishment. And did you not see my note so ill re quote it.
"(not all moms do this but most single moms I have dealt with)" I talked with personal experience. I didn't state a fact.

2 Samuel 24
12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE], I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me.
14 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE]; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.
God is merciful and David knew falling into Gods hand would be the least severe consequence. But lets look at Gods consequence.

15 ¶ So the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beer–sheba seventy thousand men.
16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] was by the threshingplace of Arau'nah the Jeb'usite.
So because David sinned in his pride God slew 70'000 people with pestilence. let me say that again
SEVENTY THOUSAND! Over his sin. Was David forgiven and restored? Yes. Did Gods love prevail through? Yes, many more could have died if he had not repented. But the consequence of 70'000 people dying is still there. Sin has consequence which is why Consequence needs to be implemented.

"The bigger picture is that children are precious and ought to be treated as such and the biggest point is that the things that you do can affect the rest of their lives."

That is true. That is why God put down a guideline. And yes some children time outs work better then spankings. But the one Biblical approved punishment still stands.

Nurture: Care for and encourage the growth or development of.
When you show a child consequence you are giving them a chance to grow from the punishment. If its spanking, time outs or what ever.
And I am not against other punishments, its not like I can spank children I work with so I have to use other means of punishing rebellion.
But by anyone thinking that spanking is going to corrupt the upbringing of a child your not disagreeing with me. Your disagreeing with where I get my information from. The Bible. I'm sure God knows a tad bit better of what he's doing by putting verses on punishment in the Bible. Why? Because hes God.

Do you think God is wrong? I think God who created man knows better how to handle the upbringing of man.
Any other philosophy that denies bible truth is stated in proverbs

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I'm giving my evidence of what I believe with Bible. All my views on this subject are supported by the Bible. Can you support your views with the Bible? If not then either you or God is wrong.

And again im not trying to be offensive or "put it in your face" I'm just showing you what it says.
MAN invented the philosophy that spanking your child in any way harms them not God. And yes incorrectly punishing someone by spanking can have terrible side effects. But so can anything done in the wrong way. But if we do the punishment the God intended way then we can get the God intended results.
It all comes down to this.
SIN has a consequence. When you raise a child or when your a teacher or instructor of any shape or form you have to keep this in mind. Because there worlds going to be shaped by how you raise them. God set down guidelines for dealing with rebellion. We can either accept them or reject them. Simple as that. If I am wrong then prove me wrong. WITH THE BIBLE. If you can biblically show me my fault then do so. I wouldn't want to hold a corrupt view. But if you can't find any bible to support it then consider the fact of you might be wrong.
God can't teach someone who refuses to be wrong. Were all wrong sometimes and we need to see that on certain issues. If i'm wrong then prove me wrong. If you can't prove me wrong by the bible then??.....

 

[wwjd_kilden]

like several here pointed out, "the rod" don't have to be literal.... tons of things in the bible are not literal.
it can simply mean to correct them....

 

[leelee]

Mate you didn't read my earlier post I guess. I already said why I think you are wrong before you even joined the discussion.

 

[jimmydiggs]

ITT: Culture wars.

 

[MissCris]

Really, you can take it too far in either direction- too hard on kids or too soft with them. Both ways can mess kids up.

The Bible teaches us the middle ground, the balance between the two.

 

[Jullianna]

I was strictly disciplined as a child as well, Ugly, including spanking, and I'm not violent either.

Discipline is not abuse. Discipline is done for the betterment, teaching and correction of a child. Abuse is done by angry parents who want to humiliate a child and inflict pain due to their own insecurity, incompetence and satisfaction. There's a huge difference between the two.

I helped raised a godly stepson, as well as a son of my own. Both were spanked. Neither are violent.

Hebrews 12: 4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. 12 Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. 13 “Make level paths for your feet,” so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.

 

[MidniteWelder]

SPANK ME!!!

 

[needmesomejesus]

AS I have said in another thread I have heard that the rod is talking about discipline not just physical punishment. The rod was a symbol of leading. Shepherds used their rods to lead their sheep not hit them. Also I feel like if one is to use spanking it should be the last result not the thing one uses each time the child misbehaves. The thing with spanking is that it can lead to unintentional child abuse or intentional. Also not everyone should be allowed to spank. People with a past of anger should not spank their children, people who can't control their force shouldn't.

 

[leelee]

I really wasn't just taking about spanking. I was meaning my opinion on the verse as a whole and what I think it means.

 

[Steve4U]

I agree.

Especially with Julianna's comment too.

There is a huge difference between a rebuke accompanied by physical contact and discipline with no structure or thought, at the whim of mum or dad.

And children know. They know when they are abused or not, whether they are actually loved or not.

If there is love, and structure towards teaching, I think physical contact is ok up to a certain point.

So it's an important point the real motivation of the parents,their conciousness of the child and the context of the action etc. I think that is where we would find the right and wrong of this situation.

So looking back to the oringinal post, I think it's pretty good, a good summary of desireable and undesireable attitudes.

I see no possible way a government could legislate on this area, or an under-funded government agency could helpfully be involved. There are already laws in place about assault, so I join with many Christians around the world saying to governments: "Get out of my house!"

Already there are troubles under the new law in New Zealand (www.familyfirst.org.nz).

I wonder what effect outlawing physical discipline has had in the longer term in UK, USA, Australia and Norway.

.

 

[DarkVoid]

Personally, i see no need or reason to physically discipline ur kids...For one: in the long run no kind of discipline really matters, it may work wen they r young but they will do what they wanna do wen they get older, regardless of how u disciplined them as a child...not saying that discipline is pointless, just sayin it depends on the kid, some will accept discipline and choose to do right wen they are older and others will just rebel against it wen they get the chance, i shud kno lol...

and for two: speaking of physical discipline specifically: there are much better, less crude ways of disliplining, i mean seriously are we still in cave-men times? Mayb its just me being sensitive but, if i ever had kids, i could not imagine hurting them in any way watsoever...yes, they shud have some kind of dicipline for their own good, just in case they choose to accept it, but physical dislipline is too crude for my tastes...

and for three: im going to address what i stated earlier: all kids are different, some will take physical discipline better than others, for example: i was spanked wen i was little and i didnt take it well...it just caused anger and resentment towards my parents and having to obey rules, which ultimately made me rebel even more, i truly believe physical discipline helped give me the rebellious attitude i have against authority in general...i think physical discipline shud be a last resort...if u use the right tactics in the first place u shudnt have to resort to spanking...or so i believe...

Again, this is just my opinion, u can do what u want, but i think the world would be a better place if ppl wud come up with more thought-out ways of disciplining instead of the age-old practice of hitting and smacking...

Peace Out pplz xD

 

[missamy]

This seems like such a small issue and yet causes such a whoha! I dont have children but am a youth worker and councilor and so this is where my stance comes from!
There is a difference between smacking a child to let them know that they have done wrong, and hitting a child because your angry at what they have done wrong. I myself have experienced both and know which I thing had the biggest impact on me positive and negative. It is definitely not abuse to let a child know they are doing wrong, but find out what works for each child, it may be a smack or a timeout or taking something they enjoy away for a short period. Never punish a child when your angry and never let it be the case that your child is scared of you - respects you yes, fears you no.

yes we all make mistakes but dont be afraid to admit to your child that you were wrong and your sorry. Have boundaries and always stick to them, dont make threats that you dont follow through on or cant.

Children are such a blessing and yet need taught and trained from day one. Remember they have a nature just like your own - sinful. if you feel your parents took the wrong road on discipline then you do it differently.

show grace when dealing with your children!
xxx