My sister is in a cult

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karen0123

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2011
171
18
18
#21
Give your sister insight on cults, when you are in her company, GO on youtube, and TYPE IN Christian cult in the USA whereby people have died.

Jonestown 900 people and children died in a Christian cult.
jonestown massacre documentary

THE TRUE CHURCH IS NOT IN A BUILDING, IT IS IN PEOPLE THEY ARE THE CHURCH.
 

TheTao

New member
Sep 9, 2018
16
13
3
#22
This is a good example of people taking a word and making it what they want to.
The definition of cult is a group or structure governed by a set of religious and/or spiritual beliefs.
If you are a Protestant and especially associated with a particular denomination, you belong to a cult.
This "I am other than you" mentality is what is blocking you from true knowledge and wisdom.
If you belong to a certain denomination or sect then fine. That is what works for you. If someone else belongs to something different from you, then good. That is what works for them.
Instead of picking each other apart for our views and beliefs, can we please try to come to a common ground?
In the name of Love.
 

I_am_Canadian

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2014
327
26
28
#23
Hello everyone,

In the last four years my sister has been a part of the Remnant Fellowship, a finge group of Judeo-Christians down in Tennessee. They do not believe in the trinity and believe that Jesus is a separate being from God the father. They also believe they are the true “remnant” mentioned in the bible and that all other forms of Christianity is “counterfeit”. I use quotes because this is from their own mouths. Research their statement of faith on their website: http://www.remnantfellowship.org/About-Our-Church/What-We-Believe/The-Essence-Of-God

My sister was lured in through the Weighdown Workshop. She lost over 100lbs doing it and it is what convinced her that this church is the ultimate truth.

For my wedding she was the matron of honour and her husband was a groomsman. Two months before the wedding she told me God was telling her that she should not be up at the alter with my husband and I because our beliefs were different and she could not support us by being in the wedding party, so her and her husband backed out. I was so heartbroken and upset. My mom is a part of that church too and she was upset by their decision, so she reached out to a leader and his response was along the lines of, “our members cannot be part of a non-Remnant wedding, especially matrons of honour. We will pray that your family (my husband and I) will break free from their counterfeit religion.”

The “counterfeit” is believing that Jesus, God and the Holy Soirit are one in the same being by the way. One holy being but three distinct persons.

After the wedding the left Canada and moved to Tennessee to be with the church because they believed God wanted them there and that there was nothing here for them.

This was less than a year ago with the wedding and he moving and they plan on being American citizens and staying in Tennessee with their two young kids.

I want to leave this topic open to the dangers of being lured into a promising looking belief system that offers transformation through a similar form of Christianity on the surface, but deep down at its roots they don’t really understand the free gift of grace. Remnant Fellowship thinks that all churches teach cheap grace and that in order to be holy we must be completely perfect and sinless. They also teach that you can live a sinless life here on earth through perfect obedience to the Father. The sacrifice of Jesus is not emphasized because he is a lesser being from God. They also “follow” the sabbath (loosely... calling church on Saturday sabbath is NOT sabbath) and feast days. Passover is a bigger deal than resurrection Sunday.

I’m in the process of trying to love and forgive my sister for all of this. I’m still deeply hurt and pray everyday for them, my mom included. It has caused some heavy division in my family between my brothers family and my dad. Please pray and advise how to moved forward, love and better minister to them.

Sorry to hear about your family in a cult, I know how you feel, I went through the samething except I was the one stuck in it. Thing is that once they have them, they don't let them go. They will tell them that they are free to go any time they want and them manipulate them into staying when they want to leave.

I had a guy do that to me, Just remember they probably got involved because they probably found something they thought they were looking for. If they do try to leave, their leader, will probably guilt trip them into staying.

Yes they keep control by separating them from the people they love. Truth is, I don't think they realized they are being used by satan to destroy families and homes. If they are aware, Then I pitty them on judgement day when they are cast into hell for their evil deeds. I think they are the kind of people who get into religion for the money.

I'm also looking forward to the day Satan is cast into hell, I can't wait to see him get what he deserves for all the misery and problems he has caused.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
4,171
1,011
113
#24
This is a good example of people taking a word and making it what they want to.
The definition of cult is a group or structure governed by a set of religious and/or spiritual beliefs.
If you are a Protestant and especially associated with a particular denomination, you belong to a cult.
This "I am other than you" mentality is what is blocking you from true knowledge and wisdom.
If you belong to a certain denomination or sect then fine. That is what works for you. If someone else belongs to something different from you, then good. That is what works for them.
Instead of picking each other apart for our views and beliefs, can we please try to come to a common ground?
In the name of Love.
does that make you a Taoist then with a side of Christianity?

perhaps the name Jim Jones rings a bell? cult leader

instead of defining what is not on your list of acceptable, perhaps regard what is universally referred to as a cult by both non Christians and Christians

thetao cannot also be the Christian
 

TheTao

New member
Sep 9, 2018
16
13
3
#25
Tao is a Chinese word. It means Way or Path. In Acts it references to the people of The Way. Yes Taoists practice The Way also. I choose not to label myself. Labels come with attachments. I chose Christian out of the three choices I had when signing up because it is most accurate. Can a Christian also be a Taoist, a Buddhist, a Hindu, Jew... etc? Yes. And I am All of those as I am one. But if I am not one of those than I am none of them.
As far as cults, I am not denying the fact that there are cults out there that are harmful even dangerous but any organization that is committed to betterment of self (which is no self) and service to humanity is good.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
4,171
1,011
113
#26
Tao is a Chinese word. It means Way or Path. In Acts it references to the people of The Way. Yes Taoists practice The Way also. I choose not to label myself. Labels come with attachments. I chose Christian out of the three choices I had when signing up because it is most accurate. Can a Christian also be a Taoist, a Buddhist, a Hindu, Jew... etc? Yes. And I am All of those as I am one. But if I am not one of those than I am none of them.
As far as cults, I am not denying the fact that there are cults out there that are harmful even dangerous but any organization that is committed to betterment of self (which is no self) and service to humanity is good.

I know what Tao is and it is not a Christian path and your advice was anything but Christian

and no a Christian cannot be anything but a Christian according to God's word, the Bible

you're more than a little mixed up regarding what Christianity is

you are speaking as a Taoist when you give the advice you gave

there is no connection between Tao and Jesus Christ

the name 'The Way' refers to what Christ said about Himself

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

Jesus is THE WAY...not an occultic misrepresentation that leads down myriad paths and has no borders or exceptions
 

dave_in_KWC

Senior Member
May 21, 2014
130
21
18
#27
Hello everyone,

In the last four years my sister has been a part of the Remnant Fellowship, a finge group of Judeo-Christians down in Tennessee. They do not believe in the trinity and believe that Jesus is a separate being from God the father. They also believe they are the true “remnant” mentioned in the bible and that all other forms of Christianity is “counterfeit”. I use quotes because this is from their own mouths. Research their statement of faith on their website: http://www.remnantfellowship.org/About-Our-Church/What-We-Believe/The-Essence-Of-God

My sister was lured in through the Weighdown Workshop. She lost over 100lbs doing it and it is what convinced her that this church is the ultimate truth.

For my wedding she was the matron of honour and her husband was a groomsman. Two months before the wedding she told me God was telling her that she should not be up at the alter with my husband and I because our beliefs were different and she could not support us by being in the wedding party, so her and her husband backed out. I was so heartbroken and upset. My mom is a part of that church too and she was upset by their decision, so she reached out to a leader and his response was along the lines of, “our members cannot be part of a non-Remnant wedding, especially matrons of honour. We will pray that your family (my husband and I) will break free from their counterfeit religion.”

The “counterfeit” is believing that Jesus, God and the Holy Soirit are one in the same being by the way. One holy being but three distinct persons.

After the wedding the left Canada and moved to Tennessee to be with the church because they believed God wanted them there and that there was nothing here for them.

This was less than a year ago with the wedding and he moving and they plan on being American citizens and staying in Tennessee with their two young kids.

I want to leave this topic open to the dangers of being lured into a promising looking belief system that offers transformation through a similar form of Christianity on the surface, but deep down at its roots they don’t really understand the free gift of grace. Remnant Fellowship thinks that all churches teach cheap grace and that in order to be holy we must be completely perfect and sinless. They also teach that you can live a sinless life here on earth through perfect obedience to the Father. The sacrifice of Jesus is not emphasized because he is a lesser being from God. They also “follow” the sabbath (loosely... calling church on Saturday sabbath is NOT sabbath) and feast days. Passover is a bigger deal than resurrection Sunday.

I’m in the process of trying to love and forgive my sister for all of this. I’m still deeply hurt and pray everyday for them, my mom included. It has caused some heavy division in my family between my brothers family and my dad. Please pray and advise how to moved forward, love and better minister to them.
So sorry to hear of this terrible circumstance w/in your family!

There is Hope!

People are rescued from the clutches of cultic groups every day.

1st, you need to take care of yourself and get back to being grounded thoroughly in Jesus and His people. As you recover, you can help them by getting resources together to fight the grip this group has on your loved one(s?). It is 1st a Spiritual battle of faith and hope i
Hello everyone,

In the last four years my sister has been a part of the Remnant Fellowship, a finge group of Judeo-Christians down in Tennessee. They do not believe in the trinity and believe that Jesus is a separate being from God the father. They also believe they are the true “remnant” mentioned in the bible and that all other forms of Christianity is “counterfeit”. I use quotes because this is from their own mouths. Research their statement of faith on their website: http://www.remnantfellowship.org/About-Our-Church/What-We-Believe/The-Essence-Of-God

My sister was lured in through the Weighdown Workshop. She lost over 100lbs doing it and it is what convinced her that this church is the ultimate truth.

For my wedding she was the matron of honour and her husband was a groomsman. Two months before the wedding she told me God was telling her that she should not be up at the alter with my husband and I because our beliefs were different and she could not support us by being in the wedding party, so her and her husband backed out. I was so heartbroken and upset. My mom is a part of that church too and she was upset by their decision, so she reached out to a leader and his response was along the lines of, “our members cannot be part of a non-Remnant wedding, especially matrons of honour. We will pray that your family (my husband and I) will break free from their counterfeit religion.”

The “counterfeit” is believing that Jesus, God and the Holy Soirit are one in the same being by the way. One holy being but three distinct persons.

After the wedding the left Canada and moved to Tennessee to be with the church because they believed God wanted them there and that there was nothing here for them.

This was less than a year ago with the wedding and he moving and they plan on being American citizens and staying in Tennessee with their two young kids.

I want to leave this topic open to the dangers of being lured into a promising looking belief system that offers transformation through a similar form of Christianity on the surface, but deep down at its roots they don’t really understand the free gift of grace. Remnant Fellowship thinks that all churches teach cheap grace and that in order to be holy we must be completely perfect and sinless. They also teach that you can live a sinless life here on earth through perfect obedience to the Father. The sacrifice of Jesus is not emphasized because he is a lesser being from God. They also “follow” the sabbath (loosely... calling church on Saturday sabbath is NOT sabbath) and feast days. Passover is a bigger deal than resurrection Sunday.

I’m in the process of trying to love and forgive my sister for all of this. I’m still deeply hurt and pray everyday for them, my mom included. It has caused some heavy division in my family between my brothers family and my dad. Please pray and advise how to moved forward, love and better minister to them.
Be glad to be of service! Please message me privately...
 
Sep 24, 2018
42
12
8
45
#28
Hello everyone,

In the last four years my sister has been a part of the Remnant Fellowship, a finge group of Judeo-Christians down in Tennessee. They do not believe in the trinity and believe that Jesus is a separate being from God the father. They also believe they are the true “remnant” mentioned in the bible and that all other forms of Christianity is “counterfeit”. I use quotes because this is from their own mouths. Research their statement of faith on their website: http://www.remnantfellowship.org/About-Our-Church/What-We-Believe/The-Essence-Of-God

My sister was lured in through the Weighdown Workshop. She lost over 100lbs doing it and it is what convinced her that this church is the ultimate truth.

For my wedding she was the matron of honour and her husband was a groomsman. Two months before the wedding she told me God was telling her that she should not be up at the alter with my husband and I because our beliefs were different and she could not support us by being in the wedding party, so her and her husband backed out. I was so heartbroken and upset. My mom is a part of that church too and she was upset by their decision, so she reached out to a leader and his response was along the lines of, “our members cannot be part of a non-Remnant wedding, especially matrons of honour. We will pray that your family (my husband and I) will break free from their counterfeit religion.”

The “counterfeit” is believing that Jesus, God and the Holy Soirit are one in the same being by the way. One holy being but three distinct persons.

After the wedding the left Canada and moved to Tennessee to be with the church because they believed God wanted them there and that there was nothing here for them.

This was less than a year ago with the wedding and he moving and they plan on being American citizens and staying in Tennessee with their two young kids.

I want to leave this topic open to the dangers of being lured into a promising looking belief system that offers transformation through a similar form of Christianity on the surface, but deep down at its roots they don’t really understand the free gift of grace. Remnant Fellowship thinks that all churches teach cheap grace and that in order to be holy we must be completely perfect and sinless. They also teach that you can live a sinless life here on earth through perfect obedience to the Father. The sacrifice of Jesus is not emphasized because he is a lesser being from God. They also “follow” the sabbath (loosely... calling church on Saturday sabbath is NOT sabbath) and feast days. Passover is a bigger deal than resurrection Sunday.

I’m in the process of trying to love and forgive my sister for all of this. I’m still deeply hurt and pray everyday for them, my mom included. It has caused some heavy division in my family between my brothers family and my dad. Please pray and advise how to moved forward, love and better minister to them.
I feel for you, I do.
 

HeraldtheNews

Active member
Apr 26, 2012
967
64
28
60
#29
I'm very sorry about how you have been treated by a religious group. It's a reminder of how much we need the Light of Christ to see through the, at times, frightening blindness of this world. It's one reason why God allows such abuses of religion--to demonstrate to us how much more powerful Christian truth is, and that Jesus is the divine Son of God. When we see buildings fall due to the blindness of religion, or 900 people dead, it shows the dramatic difference between life and death; good and evil; And how important it is, as the Apostle John said, to "walk in the light, as He is in the Light." (1 John 1:7).

 

HeraldtheNews

Active member
Apr 26, 2012
967
64
28
60
#30
anti-semitism, called:
"the oldest and darkest of ideological obsessions."


I was reading about anti-Semitism tonight, and discovered that it is similar to cults-- the totalitarian control thing.

An expression of what one Christian writer called the Jewish "burden of God in history." (Edward H. Flanning); (quoted from Robert S. Wistrich's, "A Lethal obsession:" Anti-Semitism from Antiquity to the Global Jihad). He says, "It was the Judaism that brought the concept of a God-given universal moral law into the world;" For which they are hated by the world, as a people with a divine calling not to assimilate, which fuels the world's "exasperation," with "Israel...is to be found at the very heart of the world's structure..." according to Christian writer, Jacques Maritain (quoted from Wistrich at books.google.com).

Wistrich expands this to include the totalitarian ideologies of Nazism (Germany WWII), Stalinism (Post WWII Russia), and Islamism (Anti-semitic/anti-American Islamist extremists) and how this relates to the anti-American and anti-Jewish fixations in the world. These are forces of evil, obsessed with monolithic, closed belief systems, that don't like freedom, or the divine revelation of Jewish and Christian history. Even though even some Christians have even hated Jews, Jesus loved his Jewish heritage and friendly Jewish leaders, just not the control freaks who used it to persecute people in the name of religious law, several times trying to put Him to death for miracles done on the Sabbath, which broke the law of Moses, according to them.

These are all expressions of "Xenophobia," which the Mirriam-Webster defines as: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign, similar to "Judeophobia," or "homophobia," or "Chineseophobia," "Black-African-Americanophobia," "adopto-phobia," "Islamophobia," and the list goes on and on.

What is a cult? Macro: (wide-view_: Nazism, Stalinism, Islamism, anti-Semitism, and, in some ways, Catholicism;
Micro: (close-up): These cults start with one person. Sometimes one family. One church.
Marianism, sometimes fundamentalism;

Cults in history are a dramatic, and sometimes, anguished reminder of the difference one person can make for good or evil; life or death. This is why the enemies of God, the fallen angels (demons), try to prevent us from realizing the sacred value and power of life by getting us to believe the deceiving spirits that deny our true identity as Christians--as born-again members of the family of faith, saved from the fallen world's lost spirits, selfish and destructive idolatry, madness, and death.

Each life matters.
Ask the Lord on the Cross if you don't believe it.
And it matters if we walk in the freedom of the Light.
or ask the people in Heaven or Hell if their life had meaning.
That's what it took to convince us fallen people how important life is here on earth to learn to love God, honor life, all people, and ourselves, as well as be good stewards of the earth and everything we do.
Cults are expressions of anti-christ demonic rebellion, control, and bondage.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,047
916
113
#31
Tao is a Chinese word. It means Way or Path. In Acts it references to the people of The Way. Yes Taoists practice The Way also. I choose not to label myself. Labels come with attachments. I chose Christian out of the three choices I had when signing up because it is most accurate. Can a Christian also be a Taoist, a Buddhist, a Hindu, Jew... etc? Yes. And I am All of those as I am one. But if I am not one of those than I am none of them.
As far as cults, I am not denying the fact that there are cults out there that are harmful even dangerous but any organization that is committed to betterment of self (which is no self) and service to humanity is good.
If I might add! Following the Chinese “way” and trying to make into into Christianity is called syncretism. It is combining 2 differing religions, and coming out with neither.

If you can say, “Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by him,” and mean it, then we are brothers and sisters. The minute you step 1/100th of a centimetre outside that verse, you are not Christian, because you do not believe in the same God, the same Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, that is the mark of a true Christian.
 

I_am_Canadian

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2014
327
26
28
#32
If I might add! Following the Chinese “way” and trying to make into into Christianity is called syncretism. It is combining 2 differing religions, and coming out with neither.

If you can say, “Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by him,” and mean it, then we are brothers and sisters. The minute you step 1/100th of a centimetre outside that verse, you are not Christian, because you do not believe in the same God, the same Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, that is the mark of a true Christian.
Amen
 

dave_in_KWC

Senior Member
May 21, 2014
130
21
18
#33
This is a good example of people taking a word and making it what they want to.
The definition of cult is a group or structure governed by a set of religious and/or spiritual beliefs.
If you are a Protestant and especially associated with a particular denomination, you belong to a cult.
This "I am other than you" mentality is what is blocking you from true knowledge and wisdom.
If you belong to a certain denomination or sect then fine. That is what works for you. If someone else belongs to something different from you, then good. That is what works for them.
Instead of picking each other apart for our views and beliefs, can we please try to come to a common ground?
In the name of Love.
The heart of a person can be revealed by what they point at and accuse. Jesus said this. He spoke of the need to get the "log" out of our own eyes... True knowledge and wisdom come from the Lord (Ps. 1).

Regardless of TheTao and what they are saying; the definition of "cult" is varied (and vastly more precise in its definition as being a "false or counterfeit spiritually/religiously constructed group that deceives its followers and leads them to various forms of personal, family and group destruction/pain/hurt/alienation". However, what you seem to be using this opportunity to say is that what is defined as a "cult" really doesn't matter as much as us all finding "common ground" and "loving" each other.

What matters here, IMO, I'll remind you: is that a believer (a sister of yours in the Lord, if you call Jesus Christ of Nazareth your Lord and Saviour) is hurting because she has a loved one in a "cult". This is a deep hurt that needs help, both for her and her loved one(s).
 

TheTao

New member
Sep 9, 2018
16
13
3
#34
I am not saying saying she is wrong about being hurt. I feel for that. Her sister reacted negatively about not wanting her and her husband to be a part of the wedding because of her religious views. So her sister is acting in the same way of separateness and hatred because of religion.

I looked at the website about the religion her sister follows. It's just another Christian denomination.
What I was saying in the above message is that people are not going to always agree with each other on terms of religion so instead of bashing one another for it, we should find ways to love each other and break those barriers.
The definition of cult is here. Please don't let your own concepts of the definition of a word cause hate in your heart.

What I pray for is not that anybody change their views of what they believe. But that these two sisters can overcome their differences and just love one another unconditionally.

That's what we all should be doing.
 
May 21, 2014
130
21
18
#35
I am not saying saying she is wrong about being hurt. I feel for that. Her sister reacted negatively about not wanting her and her husband to be a part of the wedding because of her religious views. So her sister is acting in the same way of separateness and hatred because of religion.

I looked at the website about the religion her sister follows. It's just another Christian denomination.
What I was saying in the above message is that people are not going to always agree with each other on terms of religion so instead of bashing one another for it, we should find ways to love each other and break those barriers.
The definition of cult is here. Please don't let your own concepts of the definition of a word cause hate in your heart.

What I pray for is not that anybody change their views of what they believe. But that these two sisters can overcome their differences and just love one another unconditionally.

That's what we all should be doing.

As I said before, one's words and comments reveal one's heart, eventually.

Your post has been reported as defamatory to me (accusing me of unfounded "...hate in your heart."), A written retraction of your defamatory comment and a formal apology is requested.

And at the very least, you have shown with your last two posts, herein, an unempathetic and inaccurate portrayal of this poster's sister being in a legitimate (intimated by you) Christian denomination. This is far from accurate. I'll give you a great, seminal website to corroborate my assertion if you need it.
 
Sep 9, 2018
16
13
3
#36
As I said before, one's words and comments reveal one's heart, eventually.

Your post has been reported as defamatory to me (accusing me of unfounded "...hate in your heart."), A written retraction of your defamatory comment and a formal apology is requested.

And at the very least, you have shown with your last two posts, herein, an unempathetic and inaccurate portrayal of this poster's sister being in a legitimate (intimated by you) Christian denomination. This is far from accurate. I'll give you a great, seminal website to corroborate my assertion if you need it.
The last post I wrote should have cleared up the fact that I wasn't meaning to be unempathetic in any way if that is what was gotten out of the previous posts. It didn't have anything to do with her personally at all. It just had to do with the term cult. That's it.
The statement
The definition of cult is here. Please don't let your own concepts of the definition of a word cause hate in your heart.
again was given as a reference to my previous comment in general about the term cult and how it is used out of context. It was not directed towards you personally and I don't want you to take it that way. If it was I would have quoted you as I did in this.
I don't write what I do to condemn. It's not my duty. I write these things out of love because I see what is causing so many divisions and sometimes I'm very bold about this because it is crucial.
If you think I owe you an apology then I'll be glad to give it. I do not want a division between us but that will be up to you because I have nothing against you.
 
Aug 27, 2017
4,171
1,011
113
#37
empathy has no place in exposing the lies that the devil tries to sow among believers, which, by the way, is exactly what you are doing

you believe 'tao' is the way, when the Bible states that the Lord Jesus Christ is THE way and there is no other

by that definition alone, you are not a Christian and you can call yourself one, but you are not as evidenced by your posts
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
6,226
1,504
113
#38
I am not saying saying she is wrong about being hurt. I feel for that. Her sister reacted negatively about not wanting her and her husband to be a part of the wedding because of her religious views. So her sister is acting in the same way of separateness and hatred because of religion.

I looked at the website about the religion her sister follows. It's just another Christian denomination.
What I was saying in the above message is that people are not going to always agree with each other on terms of religion so instead of bashing one another for it, we should find ways to love each other and break those barriers.
The definition of cult is here. Please don't let your own concepts of the definition of a word cause hate in your heart.

What I pray for is not that anybody change their views of what they believe. But that these two sisters can overcome their differences and just love one another unconditionally.

That's what we all should be doing.
Hi TheTao,
You say the group is "just another Christian denomination"... but by what standard do you make that assessment? Surely not by the standard of the Christian gospel. I agree: we don't need to bash one another, but telling each other the truth is not bashing, and disagreement is not hatred.

What you are recommending is inconsistent with biblical truth. We do pray that the sister will change her beliefs, because those of the group to which she adheres aren't biblically sound. Unfortunately it appears that the same is true of yours.

The gospel is this: There is only one Creator God, Who has revealed Himself through Scripture and specifically in Jesus Christ, Who was born of a virgin, suffered, died on a Roman cross, and rose again to life three days later. God hates sin (wrongdoing) and has but one penalty for it: death. We can pay that penalty for our own sins, or we can accept that Jesus paid it for us. It is repentance for one's sins and belief in this gospel that makes one a Christian; mere similarity of some beliefs is not the same thing.