Post-fasting blues: feeling low

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,588
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#41
I broke a bolt in a very expensive machine part and am very frustrated right now. I had to call my boss and tell him how expensive this will be to fix.
Oh dear, I'm sorry. I've been in that situation before....you did the right thing to call your boss.

Oftentimes, God really enjoys causing something good to come from a bad event. I pray the Lord will bless you, your job and your boss in this situation and something good will come from it all happening, in Jesus' Name, amen. :love:(y)
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Babylon
#42
Apology accepted. I actually thought you were beating a straw man on the idea of following the heart, but wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt in case there was something I had missed.
Actually this is an on going conversation between her and I.
Basically her idea is that it is through the emotions that the mind is changed, and I say it is through the mind that the emotions are changed. I guess to over simplify it. She says follow the Lord via the heart and the mind will follow, I say follow the Lord with your mind and the heart will follow.
But she is obviously a woman and by nature more attuned to her emotions, I being a man am more inclined toward the intellect.
I think we both know humans aren't that simple or compartmentalized, and that both require transforming by the Holy Spirit.
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Babylon
#43
Oh dear, I'm sorry. I've been in that situation before....you did the right thing to call your boss.

Oftentimes, God really enjoys causing something good to come from a bad event. I pray the Lord will bless you, your job and your boss in this situation and something good will come from it all happening, in Jesus' Name, amen. :love:(y)
Thank you for your prayers. I by the grace of God have managed to fix the part and am going to install it tomorrow.
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
1,398
851
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#44
Much to our own personal dismay, God will not force a choice on anyone, or change their heart in a way that overrides their own will, and I am so sorry that it seems like your efforts are not making the progress in your husband's heart that you would like to see.
That is the other part of the equation. God does not override our wills and He will not do so for us regarding another. Actually, that's a good thing.
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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#45
The Word of God gets perverted when a person speaks It without God’s love.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean NOT upon your own understanding.

The Lord shall be found when we search for Him with ALL OUR HEART.....doesn’t say with all our MIND.

You believe the Bereans were searching scripture with their MINDS but, it was their HEARTS that they were searching the scriptures because their emotions were determined to know God.

All decisions we make are based on emotions.....emotions play a part in our search for God and our relationship with God.
I really don't like derailing a thread. I really don't.

But you are wrong in what you are saying.

Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ Matthew 22:37

Now Jesus said that.

So how would you love God with all your mind? (Not really asking, but pointing out that emotions have their place, but if you toss out the mind God gave you, you are going to override wisdom and many other things that the Holy Spirit imparts to our MINDS)

Not going to argue with you over this, not even going to discuss as the Bible is plain in what it states and it does not agree with you.

You believe the Bereans were searching scripture with their MINDS but, it was their HEARTS that they were searching the scriptures because their emotions were determined to know God.
Nonsense

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,881
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#46
That is the other part of the equation. God does not override our wills and He will not do so for us regarding another. Actually, that's a good thing.
Yes, and I mentioned this later on in my post as well -- I just wanted to clarify this because if one only reads the small slice of my post that you quoted, taken by itself, it would make it sound as if I were saying that God overrides human will, which of course, He does not.

I didn't want it to be thought that I was somehow endorsing otherwise.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,588
2,887
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#47
I really don't like derailing a thread. I really don't.

But you are wrong in what you are saying.

Jesus declared, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ Matthew 22:37

Now Jesus said that.

So how would you love God with all your mind? (Not really asking, but pointing out that emotions have their place, but if you toss out the mind God gave you, you are going to override wisdom and many other things that the Holy Spirit imparts to our MINDS)

Not going to argue with you over this, not even going to discuss as the Bible is plain in what it states and it does not agree with you.



Nonsense

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2
Hello @SophieT,

So glad you're not going to argue with me..... I do enjoy a good discussion where we can disagree and still walk in love. :love:(y)

I don't recall saying to toss out the Mind but, simply to understand that to truly find God and understand the Bible, I'm going to have to let my Heart take the lead.

It's my Heart that can seek and FIND God because my Heart can read, study and search out the scriptures diligently. My Mind simply gathers and holds all the information and thoughts - a storage facility where the Holy Spirit with my Heart can commune and process all the information - meditate on it day and night.

If I let my Mind lead and tell my Heart to follow, I'll end up on a hamster wheel going round and round with human reasoning about God and getting more and more confused.

The Holy Spirit steps in when I seek God with ALL my Heart and gives me understanding. My Heart must do the seeking.

Look at all the denominations and doctrines that divide The Body of Christ.... all created in the Mind, NOT the Heart. God never said to..."go and make denominations and doctrines of men..."

I do agree that there is a balance with the Heart and the Mind. @Magenta posted a great link about the Heart in post #33. I bet you'd enjoy reading it, I did! :love:(y)
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
2,166
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Babylon
#48
The article makes several errors. Firstly placing the intellect in the heart. When we speak of emotions, and yes the conscience we do speak of the heart. However intellect, and understanding are the realm of the mind. I also see why he makes this error.

Moderns connect some of the heart's emotional-intellectual-moral functions with the brain and glands, but its functions are not precisely equivalent for three reasons.

First, moderns do not normally associate the brain/mind with both rational and nonrational activities, yet the ancients did not divorce them ( Psalm 20:4 ).

Who cares what modernists say, they are not in touch with reality. And the reality is that the mind does indeed engage in rational and irrational activities. Irrational ideas come from the mind.
I was irrational for me to over torque a bolt and therefore break it off today, but I did it, and it wasn't my heart.
And Psalm 20:4 does not make his point.
May he grant you your heart’s desire and fulfill all your plans!
Psalm 20:4 ESV

Psalm 20:4 deals with the whole human nature. The hearts desires, and the minds plans.



Second, the heart's reasoning, as well as its feeling, depends on its moral condition. Jesus said that "from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts" ( Mark 7:21 ). Because the human heart is deceitful above all things ( Jer 17:9 ) and folly is found up in the heart of a child ( Prov 22:15 ), the Spirit of God must give humans a new heart ( Jer 31:33 ; Ezek 36:26 ) through faith that purifies it ( Acts 15:9 ; cf. Eph 3:17 ).

Here again he compartmentalizes and assigns to the heart that which does not specifically belong there. Reasoning is the domain of the mind which must be regenerated.
I don't have time to go over each of those verses and correct the abuse.

Third, moderns distinguish between the brain's thoughts and a person's actions, but the distinction between thought and action is inappropriate for heart. "The word is very near you, " says Moses to a regenerated Israel, "in your mouth and in your heart" ( Deut 30:14 ).
Again I do not care what modernity says. We all know modernity is out of touch with reality. And the reality is that a person's action are a direct result of their thinking. Thought and action are not the domain of the heart, even if your emotions inform your thinking, it is still thinking that informs action. Example: breaking that bolt was action informed by thought. Not my heart. The only heart in that matter was that I became angry and disappointed.
Deuteronomy 30:14 is again dealing with the person as a whole. The word is on your mouth, so it is in your memory so you can repeat it, and it is in your heart, so it informs your conscience, so you can indeed do it. Because you as a whole person are informed by it.

His assumption fail because he uses modernism as his baseline for the mind. Modernity is a failed philosophy, and not a measure for reality. How can you use a construct that denies concrete reality as a baseline for establishing an informed truth.


Sorry about your article but maybe he just wasn't feeling it the day wrote it.
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Babylon
#50
What we have to understand is that people are not that compartmentalized. Most people experience on a daily basis that their mind informs their emotions, and that their emotions are informing their thoughts, and there can also be simultaneous occurrences.
If one has a regenerate heart they also have a regenerate mind and like wise if the mind is regenerate also the heart is as well. One can not be without the other. We as individuals have to be delt with as a whole, or we are set up for failure. The mind can not be engaged in study except that there is emotion engaged, and a heart can not receive something the mind is rejecting.
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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851
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#51
Yes, and I mentioned this later on in my post as well -- I just wanted to clarify this because if one only reads the small slice of my post that you quoted, taken by itself, it would make it sound as if I were saying that God overrides human will, which of course, He does not.

I didn't want it to be thought that I was somehow endorsing otherwise.
I didn't get that impression from your post though :) However, the small excerpt I quoted from that post, is a very important bit of understanding. for sure God desires that all be saved, but we know that all will not be saved. I think this is something that a person can have too many expectations in...I know I have. We can be so desperate we believe that God will answer with a resounding 'yes' when that is not often the case.

No worries about your post
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
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#52
What we have to understand is that people are not that compartmentalized.
Jesus said, "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, ..."

Not from their mind ;)

Moderns separate heart and mind, ancients did not (at least, not so much).

I understand heart as meaning innermost self :)
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Babylon
#53
Jesus said, "For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, ..."

Not from their mind ;)

Moderns separate heart and mind, ancients did not (at least, not so much).

I understand heart as meaning innermost self :)
So how do you account for the ability to over turn a thought by over riding it by self control, and another thought process, but not being able to over ride an emotion by attempting to displace it by thought or another emotion?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#54
So how do you account for the ability to over turn a thought by over riding it by self control, and another thought process, but not being able to over ride an emotion by attempting to displace it by thought or another emotion?
I see heart and mind as inextricably connected.

You seem to be compartmentalizing them.

How do you account for what Jesus said?

For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts...
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#55
Actually this is an on going conversation between her and I.
Basically her idea is that it is through the emotions that the mind is changed, and I say it is through the mind that the emotions are changed. I guess to over simplify it. She says follow the Lord via the heart and the mind will follow, I say follow the Lord with your mind and the heart will follow.
But she is obviously a woman and by nature more attuned to her emotions, I being a man am more inclined toward the intellect.
I think we both know humans aren't that simple or compartmentalized, and that both require transforming by the Holy Spirit.
I am not sure if the Bible teaches either way. In the Old Testament it says the heart is wicked, but in the New Testament, the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, which is given unto us. The Spirit is given to saints in Christ after His resurrection and ascension in a way that it was not given to all the people of God in the Old Testament. God works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

We are told the love the Lord with all of our heart and with all of our mind.

If your mind is more inclined to love the Lord, let the heart follow the mind. If your heart is more inclined to follow the Lord, let the mind follow the heart.

I am also not sure if our 'mind' and 'heart' concepts always align with what is taught in scripture. Some of the 'heart' verses could also be translated to say 'bowels'.

I would have to do deeper study. I do not find that 'soul' and 'spirit' align neatly with some of the definitions and explanations I have found in church based on word studies of the word 'soul.' 'Soul' seems to mean breath, life, a dead carcass, or the individual, depending on the context or the word translated.

I am suspicious of teachings along the lines of 'heart knowledge not head knowledge'-- which can be used to dismiss people's attempts to gain genuine helpful Biblical knowledge. We are to run after wisdom and seek to gain understanding and knowledge.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#56
The article makes several errors. Firstly placing the intellect in the heart. When we speak of emotions, and yes the conscience we do speak of the heart. However intellect, and understanding are the realm of the mind. I also see why he makes this error.

Matthew 9:4
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

If Jesus said they thought with their hearts doesn't that destroy a lot of the assumptions going back and forth in this debate? I do not see these clean distinctions you are arguing for between mind and heart as being consistent with scripture, at least not the way they are laid out. I think the basis for the distinctions between mind and heart you are making would have to be thoroughly proven using all relevant scriptures first. A lot of it seems to be based on 'stuff we've heard from the pulpit over the years' rather than scripture. In our own language and culture, we have our own ideas of what is mind and heart, and evangelicalism has some language from its own subculture.
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Babylon
#57
I see heart and mind as inextricably connected.

You seem to be compartmentalizing them.

How do you account for what Jesus said?

For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts...
I keep repeating that we aren't that compartmentalized. Because yes the heart and mind are indeed inextricably linked.
That statement of Jesus deals with the humans as a whole as we are from the heart, which is the conscience, and emotions, comes evil thinking, the debased mind, this the whole person is corrupt.

Just as also is the body inextricably linked to the mind and the emotions, yet we delineate between them. Even though the whole is who you are. And though this link is; we can still assign priority, and order with in the system.

So as scripture says morn with those who morn with those who morn, but what do we do immediately, we begin to rationalize the emotional pain because we don't want to just sit a feel someone's pain with them. And this is why we learn to delineate so we can give proper priority and deal with people as a whole
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#58
As you may know, I did a 21 day partial fast for my husband who is a non believer. I also was just searching and yearning for more connection and closeness with God.

I think about Jesus all the time. If I'm reading, its generally the Bible or a book about God. If I am watching videos, it's a sermon or testimony. If I listen to music, its worship music. Of course I am a sinful, fallen creature but I try my best to follow Him and wrestle with many decisions to make sure I am following God's path for my life. I pray for almost as much time as I am conscious and awake. I had reached a plateau in my faith and hoped that the fast would help break through some of those barriers. My pastor always says that if you can't feel God, it's on you as you aren't trying hard enough. I dont know how much harder I can try.

The fast ended on Saturday and I was expecting some kind of amazing move of God in my life to happen rightaway. I don't know why I feel so disappointed and surprised that things haven't changed radically. I know I am being silly and need to pull myself together but I have been crying out to God to move, and feel so deflated. I feel like during the fast, I poured myself out to Him and laid my deepest, innermost parts out to Him. So many vulnerabilities came to the surface and I shed a lot of tears. I feel like I really bore my heart and just exposed so much.

Silence.

I feel like I poured heart out to someone and they just changed the subject. I am usually so hope-filled and full of faith that nothing is impossible with God, that He is loving and takes all of our hurt. I am chasing and chasing Jesus and feel like I can't find Him. I cannot try any harder to seek His face. I feel so weepy and alone and just need some encouragement.

I went into the fast in the hope of interceding for my unbelieving husband, and came out of it wondering if he has a point in his unbelief.

Help!

Thanks for reading.
I dont know if doing a fast can change someone ELSE even an unbelieving husband. But the reason why we fast is so WE can be closer to God.
If someone chooses not to believe we cant just MAKE them believe. I know its hard but thats just the way it is. Even Jesus had a hard time with unbelievers...even when he did all those miracles and good things right in front of their eyes.

look you cant believe for your husband, it just doesnt work that way. He needs to fast and pray himself.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
10,649
3,870
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#59
ask you husband to pray with you. He can sit with you and hold your hand while you pray, he doenst need to say anything except amen at the end. Pray in a way that will bring you together before God.

if he doesnt want to do this you cant really make him, but just invite him in.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,168
2,055
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#60
As you may know, I did a 21 day partial fast for my husband who is a non believer. I also was just searching and yearning for more connection and closeness with God.

I think about Jesus all the time. If I'm reading, its generally the Bible or a book about God. If I am watching videos, it's a sermon or testimony. If I listen to music, its worship music. Of course I am a sinful, fallen creature but I try my best to follow Him and wrestle with many decisions to make sure I am following God's path for my life. I pray for almost as much time as I am conscious and awake. I had reached a plateau in my faith and hoped that the fast would help break through some of those barriers. My pastor always says that if you can't feel God, it's on you as you aren't trying hard enough. I dont know how much harder I can try.

The fast ended on Saturday and I was expecting some kind of amazing move of God in my life to happen rightaway. I don't know why I feel so disappointed and surprised that things haven't changed radically. I know I am being silly and need to pull myself together but I have been crying out to God to move, and feel so deflated. I feel like during the fast, I poured myself out to Him and laid my deepest, innermost parts out to Him. So many vulnerabilities came to the surface and I shed a lot of tears. I feel like I really bore my heart and just exposed so much.

Silence.

I feel like I poured heart out to someone and they just changed the subject. I am usually so hope-filled and full of faith that nothing is impossible with God, that He is loving and takes all of our hurt. I am chasing and chasing Jesus and feel like I can't find Him. I cannot try any harder to seek His face. I feel so weepy and alone and just need some encouragement.

I went into the fast in the hope of interceding for my unbelieving husband, and came out of it wondering if he has a point in his unbelief.

Help!

Thanks for reading.
Can I ask you have you ever fasted before? and if so what was that experience like? I will tell you something after I have confirmation of what I think your answer will be, :)