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You're the one who keeps attacking a strawman.
I already said that it's okay for people to do whatever they want as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. This means it's wrong for you to ban gay-marriage, and it's wrong for anyone to force businesses to serve people they don't want to serve. BOTH of these things are wrong.
If two people of the same sex want to get married, then let God judge them. And if you argue, "There's no such thing as gay marriage", then let them get "married" on earth, die, then have God tell them that. But don't ban gay marriage when their marriage doesn't effect you.
I already said that it's okay for people to do whatever they want as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. This means it's wrong for you to ban gay-marriage, and it's wrong for anyone to force businesses to serve people they don't want to serve. BOTH of these things are wrong.
If two people of the same sex want to get married, then let God judge them. And if you argue, "There's no such thing as gay marriage", then let them get "married" on earth, die, then have God tell them that. But don't ban gay marriage when their marriage doesn't effect you.
A
No I'm not attacking that straw man. I was replying to what I perceived as an inference by you that homosexuals were not persecuting Christians when they clearly and observably are.
And, like you, I can live with a plurality that allows everyone their "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" if it means not being able to force Christians to facilitate immorality or act immorally as per an orthodox Christian epistemology nor persecute them for living out their worldview. In fact, this may be the ideal way to proceed in this present environment given the circumstances.
And, like you, I can live with a plurality that allows everyone their "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" if it means not being able to force Christians to facilitate immorality or act immorally as per an orthodox Christian epistemology nor persecute them for living out their worldview. In fact, this may be the ideal way to proceed in this present environment given the circumstances.
tonydisciple, whether or not a person supports or rejects same-sex marriage doesnt change the fact of whether they are christian or not. I am against gay marriage because God says its wrong, and also because its unnatural for two people of the same sex to be together like that. I have no problem at all with gay people themselves, just the marriage part of it. Alot of my neighbors are gay and two women across the hall from me live together. God tells us that homosexuality is wrong and amoral. As christians, and as people, we know that its wrong.
But on the flip side, I believe love is love whether its from two women or two men. We should all have love and understanding for other people and their beliefs or lifestyles, even if we dont agree with their choices. God hates the SIN, but he LOVES the SINNER. And we are to do the same. Hate the sin, but love the sinner.
But on the flip side, I believe love is love whether its from two women or two men. We should all have love and understanding for other people and their beliefs or lifestyles, even if we dont agree with their choices. God hates the SIN, but he LOVES the SINNER. And we are to do the same. Hate the sin, but love the sinner.
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King James Bible
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
B
Evil in the Last Days
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
A
How bout this case Sarah? See the question ISN'T giving service. The question is giving service to celebrate sin, a sinful lifestyle, in DIRECT opposition to your religious belief. I would be fined, have my business forcibly shut, and jailed before I glorified these perversions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/u...h-in-refusal-to-photograph-ceremony.html?_r=0
You couldn't see that I DID answer you? I said it's not a question of giving service to a homosexual. Be it a grocer or any other service. How would a grocer even know that a person who commits unspeakable perverse acts were even doing them? It is FORCING someone to actively engage in CELEBRATING or PROMOTING their perversion. This woman photographer said if they wanted their picture taken she would have no problem. They wanted to FORCE her to take their picture sanctifying their perversion through some kind of a mockery of marriage. You can't see the difference there?
You seem incapable of grasping my answer. I'll try it once more, but as often as I explain It, unfortunately,I still can't comprehend it for you.
Sins people commit in the privacy of their home are not my business and are between them and God. So a homosexual who did their work at their job and went home and committed deviant sinful acts has no bearing on the employer or landlord. BUT when they demand that YOU must perform your service celebrating or in any way endorsing their deviancy then it is the Christians responsibility to refuse. So a homosexual going into a bakery and asking for a cake is different than a homosexual going into a bakery and demanding a WEDDING cake be made with 2 men or 2 women atop. A homosexual asking a photographer to take a portrait is different than a homosexual demanding that that photographer photograph his homosexual nuptials. Next you'll be telling me that a priest should be forced to marry the homosexual. And if not, WHY NOT? YOUR same principal applies. As does mine, which is Christians MUST not be forced to accept, promote, celebrate, or give services to unrepentant homosexuals.
Sins people commit in the privacy of their home are not my business and are between them and God. So a homosexual who did their work at their job and went home and committed deviant sinful acts has no bearing on the employer or landlord. BUT when they demand that YOU must perform your service celebrating or in any way endorsing their deviancy then it is the Christians responsibility to refuse. So a homosexual going into a bakery and asking for a cake is different than a homosexual going into a bakery and demanding a WEDDING cake be made with 2 men or 2 women atop. A homosexual asking a photographer to take a portrait is different than a homosexual demanding that that photographer photograph his homosexual nuptials. Next you'll be telling me that a priest should be forced to marry the homosexual. And if not, WHY NOT? YOUR same principal applies. As does mine, which is Christians MUST not be forced to accept, promote, celebrate, or give services to unrepentant homosexuals.
Thank you,I get what your saying,it just wasn't coming across to me clearly and you did that. And actually we are in line far more then you realize. I do agree a marraige is only between a man and a woman. I do see the need for laws that do protect them in this and this alone and that are needs to survive. IE Food,clothing,shelter,water,transportation and a living. A wedding cake IS NOT A NEED to survive. There should be laws to protect those who are NOT selling things or providing services that are NOT needs in cases like this.
Hate either way is wrong period. Gays being beaten up by Christians should be as protected as Christians being beaten up by gays. Both do happen and it is far more common then you realize. The "couples" bringing the lawsuits are in the wrong.
Hate either way is wrong period. Gays being beaten up by Christians should be as protected as Christians being beaten up by gays. Both do happen and it is far more common then you realize. The "couples" bringing the lawsuits are in the wrong.
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There are gays who have a deep hatred for straights in general, and in particular for christians. There's such a thing as the "gay agenda" and part of that is undermine and destroy society as we know it, a society that was built on christians values. What [some] gays will do goes way beyond beating up christians. They're actively recruiting children for their "cause," abusing them in the process. We should take ALL precautions necessary to protect our children [and anyone else for that matter] from that.