-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
A government can permit whatever contracts to be drafted they choose. In the past, governments have permitted contracts between men and boys for sexual relations in the Greco-Roman empire, contracts for slave ownership, contracts for piracy and murder as government sponsored privateers, etc... just as a few random examples of heinous contracts permitted by government. If you can think of it and it's physically possible, it's probably been done under a government contract of one form or another in some place and time.
What we're talking about is marriage within the Christian worldview.
It is no small thing that Paul uses the differentiation between men and women in their designed role as husband and wife as the portrait of the relationship between Christ and His church.
Look at Genesis 5:2, "He [God] created them male (1) and female (2), and He blessed them and named them Man (3) in the day when they were created."
1 male = זָכָ֥ר
2 female = וּנְקֵבָ֖ה
3 Man = אָדָ֔ם
1 male means a biological male not just a gender role. 2 female means a biological female not just a gender role. 3 means mankind or humanity encompassing both biological males and females with the gender roles that each were designed for.
God created males and females biologically distinct who only together receive the mandate to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion over creation (Gen 1:27–28). Together a biological male and biological woman are complete (Gen 2:18–25).
The very pairing of man and woman in the assertion "male and female he created them" (Gen 1:27 RSV) implies that together the two biologically different sexes make up humanity and the great manifestation of this essential unity is marriage (Gen 2:23–24) between a man and a woman.
In the Genesis 1 creation account, Adam emerges as "the human" (ha’a?am, Gen 1:26–27), differentiated as a biological male and biological female (e.g. "male זָכָ֥ר and female וּנְקֵבָ֖ה He [God] created them" Genesis 1:27 Hebrew Text Analysis).
If you understand ancient Hebrew, you can clearly see the language COMPLETELY REFUTES the idea that marriage can be between homosexuals.
When Genesis 1-3 are lined up next to Ephesians 5 we see that husband and wife means a biologically differentiated man and woman and that this was God's intent from the beginning. Christ did not come to destroy gender distinctions between biologically differentiated men and women but to repair them so that they might operate in such a way that shows His glory
People who choose to engage in homosexual acts malign scripture, malign God's intent, malign God's plan for humanity, etc... to justify their homosexually immoral behavior.
The government permitting it doesn't mean God recognizes it as a valid marriage. It's an abomination done in rebellion of what God established for humanity.
What we're talking about is marriage within the Christian worldview.
It is no small thing that Paul uses the differentiation between men and women in their designed role as husband and wife as the portrait of the relationship between Christ and His church.
Look at Genesis 5:2, "He [God] created them male (1) and female (2), and He blessed them and named them Man (3) in the day when they were created."
1 male = זָכָ֥ר
2 female = וּנְקֵבָ֖ה
3 Man = אָדָ֔ם
1 male means a biological male not just a gender role. 2 female means a biological female not just a gender role. 3 means mankind or humanity encompassing both biological males and females with the gender roles that each were designed for.
God created males and females biologically distinct who only together receive the mandate to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion over creation (Gen 1:27–28). Together a biological male and biological woman are complete (Gen 2:18–25).
The very pairing of man and woman in the assertion "male and female he created them" (Gen 1:27 RSV) implies that together the two biologically different sexes make up humanity and the great manifestation of this essential unity is marriage (Gen 2:23–24) between a man and a woman.
In the Genesis 1 creation account, Adam emerges as "the human" (ha’a?am, Gen 1:26–27), differentiated as a biological male and biological female (e.g. "male זָכָ֥ר and female וּנְקֵבָ֖ה He [God] created them" Genesis 1:27 Hebrew Text Analysis).
If you understand ancient Hebrew, you can clearly see the language COMPLETELY REFUTES the idea that marriage can be between homosexuals.
When Genesis 1-3 are lined up next to Ephesians 5 we see that husband and wife means a biologically differentiated man and woman and that this was God's intent from the beginning. Christ did not come to destroy gender distinctions between biologically differentiated men and women but to repair them so that they might operate in such a way that shows His glory
People who choose to engage in homosexual acts malign scripture, malign God's intent, malign God's plan for humanity, etc... to justify their homosexually immoral behavior.
The government permitting it doesn't mean God recognizes it as a valid marriage. It's an abomination done in rebellion of what God established for humanity.
Not all marriages in America are Christian, so why are Christians fighting against gay, non-Christian, marriages?
Clearly, many people in this room believe ALL marriages are Christian. That's genuinely untrue and unconstitutional in the U.S.
And in no way am I suggesting the government recognizes gay marriage as accepted by God. The government shouldn't have any jurisdiction over religion.
Clearly, many people in this room believe ALL marriages are Christian. That's genuinely untrue and unconstitutional in the U.S.
And in no way am I suggesting the government recognizes gay marriage as accepted by God. The government shouldn't have any jurisdiction over religion.
A
Christians are called to be both salt and light to the world. As Matthew recorded in chapter 5, Jesus said:
"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men."
This implies that Christ's disciples have a particular way of life to live and particular functions to perform on earth. One of those functions has to do with God's people seeking to act as a preserving influence in the world until Christ's return.
Today's Christians often seem to forget that God is a jealous God who cares deeply about His creation and is as holy and concerned about holiness as he is loving and concerned about love.
Christians would be amiss in their role not to speak out against the perversion of marriage which is the basis of the family and God's design for humanity in the way I previously presented it to you (also see Matt. 19:4-5).
The deceived and/or rebellious state of one who maligns God's design for humanity into an abomination to "justify" a life spent in pursuit of great sexual immorality has serious (and if not repented from eternal) consequences. When people are willing to go to such lengths: eventually God can give them up to it and they no longer ever care about repenting again (see Matt. 13).
One cannot be salt (and light) and ignore it and that's why Christians don't.
Now can Christians live in a society that is corrupt to the point our own is headed until Christ's return? Sure. In fact, we're going to have to.
Whether or not that will be in the libertarian environment you envision with respect to marriage remains to be seen. I don't see the government getting out of the marriage business anytime soon personally but rather extending it to people whose behavior with respect to it can be defined as historically and normatively immoral.
Whatever the government's position is, understand that it's spiritual warfare and we are to act as salt and light in it until His return.
"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men."
This implies that Christ's disciples have a particular way of life to live and particular functions to perform on earth. One of those functions has to do with God's people seeking to act as a preserving influence in the world until Christ's return.
Today's Christians often seem to forget that God is a jealous God who cares deeply about His creation and is as holy and concerned about holiness as he is loving and concerned about love.
Christians would be amiss in their role not to speak out against the perversion of marriage which is the basis of the family and God's design for humanity in the way I previously presented it to you (also see Matt. 19:4-5).
The deceived and/or rebellious state of one who maligns God's design for humanity into an abomination to "justify" a life spent in pursuit of great sexual immorality has serious (and if not repented from eternal) consequences. When people are willing to go to such lengths: eventually God can give them up to it and they no longer ever care about repenting again (see Matt. 13).
One cannot be salt (and light) and ignore it and that's why Christians don't.
Now can Christians live in a society that is corrupt to the point our own is headed until Christ's return? Sure. In fact, we're going to have to.
Whether or not that will be in the libertarian environment you envision with respect to marriage remains to be seen. I don't see the government getting out of the marriage business anytime soon personally but rather extending it to people whose behavior with respect to it can be defined as historically and normatively immoral.
Whatever the government's position is, understand that it's spiritual warfare and we are to act as salt and light in it until His return.
Your information is based solely on Christian explanations. They mean nothing to non-Christians. We already have Islamic nations that force people to abide by their religion, let's not make America or any other nation a Christian equivalent.
I can understand the idea that Christians should do everything in their power to enforce their views on the rest of the world, including non-Christians. But I see no room for a world in which religious views must be forced. Any religion that relies on government enforcement clearly can't stand on its own merits, and such religions should severely be questioned.
When the American government was secular, it was also the most religious. Now, as politicians try to change the government into a non-secular Christian one, there is more push back than ever - more resistance. Freedom allowed Christianity to thrive, but politics will be the death of it.
I can understand the idea that Christians should do everything in their power to enforce their views on the rest of the world, including non-Christians. But I see no room for a world in which religious views must be forced. Any religion that relies on government enforcement clearly can't stand on its own merits, and such religions should severely be questioned.
When the American government was secular, it was also the most religious. Now, as politicians try to change the government into a non-secular Christian one, there is more push back than ever - more resistance. Freedom allowed Christianity to thrive, but politics will be the death of it.
You are of course completely correct. It is not enough for those who commit the perversion of homosexuality to have their perverse acts lawful in their own homes. It is not enough for those who commit the perversion of homosexuality to have parades to flaunt their perversions. It is not enough for those who commit homosexual acts to have the right to visit the ones they committed perverse acts with in the Hospital. It is not enough for those who commit homosexual acts to demand they get heath insurance through the person they commit perverse acts with. It is not enough that that advocates of and those who commit homosexual acts advance their perversion through the media, tv, movies, commercials, SCHOOLS, music, and politicians. It is not enough that those
You are of course completely correct. It is not enough for those who commit the perversion of homosexuality to have their perverse acts lawful in their own homes. It is not enough for those who commit the perversion of homosexuality to have parades to flaunt their perversions. It is not enough for those who commit homosexual acts to have the right to visit the ones they committed perverse acts with in the Hospital. It is not enough for those who commit homosexual acts to demand they get heath insurance through the person they commit perverse acts with. It is not enough that that advocates of and those who commit homosexual acts advance their perversion through the media, tv, movies, commercials, SCHOOLS, music, and politicians. It is not enough that those who commit homosexual acts demand that they receive a gov. sanctioned marriage certificate.They cannot abide the thought of a SINGLE person who states the Biblical truth that what they are doing is sinful and against nature, and all of human history. And they will persecute, bully, and ever work toward making that person suffer through intimidation and law.
If every person on earth agrees their perversion is just, it will not be ENOUGH. The Lord and their own conscious' will forever tell them they are sinning.
If every person on earth agrees their perversion is just, it will not be ENOUGH. The Lord and their own conscious' will forever tell them they are sinning.
Wrong. It means everything to all mankind. To understand how we have failed and take responsibility for the condition that the earth is in after having been made to be the caretakers of it, is for all mankind.
This is not some sort of special club as you have described it. It was God's love towards the world (not "Christians") that he sent his son and offered him up as the ultimate sacrifice to undo what we have done. Those that live by it, escape the suffering that the world experiences on a daily basis. Those that do not, are like rebellious children that will not listen to the wisdom of their parents trying to keep them from harm.
What issue should one have with the love, peace, truth, and well-being that we have found through our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ? Why would anyone make issue against those that have overcome sickness, disease, depression, and even death through knowing him? What is it about these things that can be seen as evil?
Who is forcing beliefs upon whom? Marriage has been the way it has since it was first introduced to the Jews as recorded in Jewish history and also the old testament. Yet now men are saying that it must be changed to suit THEIR beliefs when it never belonged to them in the first place. So then, we fight to preserve what was given and passed down; that others may not have the right to steal it away. This is an obvious attempt by self-entitled people to steal away the traditions of others as has been done many times throughout the ages. Only ignorance would allow one to see it any other way.
This nation will continue to convert to a socialist country. Even Russia is disgusted with the hypocrisy of our nation's leaders and have warned against our socialist ideals. This one thing you said I agree with the most... "Freedom allowed Christianity to thrive". How can anyone not see how freedom and liberty are being taken away?
Light reveals those things hidden in darkness. Salt preserves.
This is not some sort of special club as you have described it. It was God's love towards the world (not "Christians") that he sent his son and offered him up as the ultimate sacrifice to undo what we have done. Those that live by it, escape the suffering that the world experiences on a daily basis. Those that do not, are like rebellious children that will not listen to the wisdom of their parents trying to keep them from harm.
What issue should one have with the love, peace, truth, and well-being that we have found through our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ? Why would anyone make issue against those that have overcome sickness, disease, depression, and even death through knowing him? What is it about these things that can be seen as evil?
Who is forcing beliefs upon whom? Marriage has been the way it has since it was first introduced to the Jews as recorded in Jewish history and also the old testament. Yet now men are saying that it must be changed to suit THEIR beliefs when it never belonged to them in the first place. So then, we fight to preserve what was given and passed down; that others may not have the right to steal it away. This is an obvious attempt by self-entitled people to steal away the traditions of others as has been done many times throughout the ages. Only ignorance would allow one to see it any other way.
This nation will continue to convert to a socialist country. Even Russia is disgusted with the hypocrisy of our nation's leaders and have warned against our socialist ideals. This one thing you said I agree with the most... "Freedom allowed Christianity to thrive". How can anyone not see how freedom and liberty are being taken away?
Light reveals those things hidden in darkness. Salt preserves.
A
So you are against Christians being able to exercise their political will. You wish to tyrannically deny Christians their human rights and Bill of Rights and form a despotic form of government around your own ideas. It looks like you are the problem.
And America has never been a secular government. You need to take a good U.S. history class in addition to all those other classes you are lacking. This deprivation of liberty you are attempting to force on Christians conflicts with the protection of religious freedom in our Constitution and constitutes a human rights violation as well making you a tyrant.
Usually liberals are the ones engaging in this tyranny to deprive Christians of their religious liberty and human rights. Liberals deem First Amendment freedoms subordinate to their ideology when, in fact, our Founding Fathers revered religious freedom by giving it the highest form of protection under the law.
Jefferson emphasized the value of freedom of conscience when he stated, “no provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority.”
Religious freedom is a subject on which our Founders had a lot to say and the historical record is clear that all of our Founding Fathers believed in religious freedom and to the extent they differed on religious freedom, it was over what degree the government should favor religion and/or to what extent those without a religious belief should participate in public life.
But then the liberal controlled failing public education system pushes out products that are good at rolling joints and spreading STDs but really ignorant on areas like U.S. history, world history, logic, theology/philosophy, etc.. so I understand that how you can be so ignorant in these areas.
Something the founders understood was that the rule of law ultimately needs to conform with the morality of God for it to be ultimately righteous in an authoritative sense as they understood that governments (e.g. higher powers) are ordained by God for the benefit of humanity within parameters that are always morally superseded by the de jure highest power (e.g. God).
The inference is that whatever form the government may be, higher powers are always "under" or "below" God and never possess God's approval when it contradicts the good purposes for which God ordains government.
Your assertion that the U.S. is trending toward religious is patently false. It is trending away from the godly inheritance it began with toward state atheism which is the metaphysical worldview that caused so much democide, persecution, and suffering in the world just last century.
And America has never been a secular government. You need to take a good U.S. history class in addition to all those other classes you are lacking. This deprivation of liberty you are attempting to force on Christians conflicts with the protection of religious freedom in our Constitution and constitutes a human rights violation as well making you a tyrant.
Usually liberals are the ones engaging in this tyranny to deprive Christians of their religious liberty and human rights. Liberals deem First Amendment freedoms subordinate to their ideology when, in fact, our Founding Fathers revered religious freedom by giving it the highest form of protection under the law.
Jefferson emphasized the value of freedom of conscience when he stated, “no provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority.”
Religious freedom is a subject on which our Founders had a lot to say and the historical record is clear that all of our Founding Fathers believed in religious freedom and to the extent they differed on religious freedom, it was over what degree the government should favor religion and/or to what extent those without a religious belief should participate in public life.
But then the liberal controlled failing public education system pushes out products that are good at rolling joints and spreading STDs but really ignorant on areas like U.S. history, world history, logic, theology/philosophy, etc.. so I understand that how you can be so ignorant in these areas.
Something the founders understood was that the rule of law ultimately needs to conform with the morality of God for it to be ultimately righteous in an authoritative sense as they understood that governments (e.g. higher powers) are ordained by God for the benefit of humanity within parameters that are always morally superseded by the de jure highest power (e.g. God).
The inference is that whatever form the government may be, higher powers are always "under" or "below" God and never possess God's approval when it contradicts the good purposes for which God ordains government.
Your assertion that the U.S. is trending toward religious is patently false. It is trending away from the godly inheritance it began with toward state atheism which is the metaphysical worldview that caused so much democide, persecution, and suffering in the world just last century.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.