What is Truth?

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#1
Always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Our culture, social media, education and the internet are being flooded with ideas, worldviews, idealogies that build on older thoughts or mix old thoughts to create new ones. We see these in memes, short YouTube videos, or short news articles. Always learning but never arriving to the truth.


Some will read a meme or a short news article and out of gullibility or even laziness they accept the idea without following it, researching it, cross examine opposing ideas and read multiple sources both articles and books.


So much information with not enough time in the day to follow every idea all the way through. All the way through the emotional response and on into the logical and reasonable consequences of such ideas. Easiest way to test if a idea needs more thought is by asking yourself a few questions.


1.What is the foundation of those beliefs? ( example: Do you believe because of your parents, a teacher, a internet blogger.)


2.What justification does your belief have? ( Example: there are just two truth values: true and false. A proposition is true if it corresponds to reality; otherwise it is false.)


3.How well are you able to defend your beliefs?


So if your belief began from a popular internet blogger, does the belief correspond to reality and are you able to defend it if put on the spot. Are you held in confirmation bias or has those beliefs been held to the fire to be refined or burned up?


What is truth?


Of truth. What is truth? said jesting Pilate, and would not stay for an answer. - Francis Bacon refers to Pontius Pilate.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams


"Truth is a funny thing. Many want to be known as followers of the truth, but that same many subconsciously hope to avoid the consequences of catching it.
To apprehend the truth is to be changed into something we could never have imagined in the fog of our delusions. It takes true abandonment to faith in the Spirit of Truth to finally become conformed to His image. Having a vested interest in what the truth is always leads you to bow before your own image as you peer into that glass darkly. There is no substitute for taking up the cross that kills all ambition and self seeking and following that One who said, "I AM the Truth!" To fall short of this walk is to be forever caught in the lie."-Michael Clark


In the last days many want to be known as followers of the truth, but that same many subconsciously hope to avoid the consequences of catching it. The truth will lead to God and the consequences of being led to God means one must answer for what they do with that truth.


2 Timothy 3 New International Version (NIV)
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,

7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,878
113
#2

A proposition is true if it corresponds to reality;
If I were having this conversation with a college student, I would probably restate the definition as "Truth is that which corresponds to OBJECTIVE reality."

That would prevent about 90% of whatever the student was about to say.

.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,878
113
#3
The reason for my post above:

When people have bizarre definitions for words, we need to force the conversation back to rationality.
Colleges are teaching the kids that "reality" is defined by your personal experiences, or your personal feelings.

The word "objective" is a fly in the ointment.
It qualifies the word "reality" for those who have no idea what reality actually is.
So... it just circumvents all of that nonsense, or at least brings it up at the very beginning, so you can deal with it.


Have fun.
..
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#4
If I were having this conversation with a college student, I would probably restate the definition as "Truth is that which corresponds to OBJECTIVE reality."

That would prevent about 90% of whatever the student was about to say.

.
True, objectivity is the only reality
Reality is what is real. For example to argue a more than 2 gender reality is actually nonsense because by all observations and study of human DNA we know that 2 genders is the only reality. Or that life begins at conception and a unborn child having the human DNA at conception is just as human as you and I. To say otherwise goes against what we observe and see within reality.

Reality corresponds with God and creation because for obvious reasons He created the reality. We may debate how God created but in the end we only have 2 options what is true and what is false.

To presuppose a Godless world but yet hold assumptions that only make sense in a God created reality will bring about bad philosophy. Bad philosophy= bad theology
Bad philosophy= bad science

So without having a good understanding of reality within Philosophy (the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language) then as our culture tries to tell us, truth is subjective and or no one can know the truth and at the same time they claim that to be true.

Point being yes truth can only be objective or else someone's worldview will sound like nonsense.
 

1christian1

Well-known member
Sep 13, 2018
799
256
63
#5
Always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Our culture, social media, education and the internet are being flooded with ideas, worldviews, idealogies that build on older thoughts or mix old thoughts to create new ones. We see these in memes, short YouTube videos, or short news articles. Always learning but never arriving to the truth.


Some will read a meme or a short news article and out of gullibility or even laziness they accept the idea without following it, researching it, cross examine opposing ideas and read multiple sources both articles and books.


So much information with not enough time in the day to follow every idea all the way through. All the way through the emotional response and on into the logical and reasonable consequences of such ideas. Easiest way to test if a idea needs more thought is by asking yourself a few questions.


1.What is the foundation of those beliefs? ( example: Do you believe because of your parents, a teacher, a internet blogger.)


2.What justification does your belief have? ( Example: there are just two truth values: true and false. A proposition is true if it corresponds to reality; otherwise it is false.)


3.How well are you able to defend your beliefs?


So if your belief began from a popular internet blogger, does the belief correspond to reality and are you able to defend it if put on the spot. Are you held in confirmation bias or has those beliefs been held to the fire to be refined or burned up?


What is truth?


Of truth. What is truth? said jesting Pilate, and would not stay for an answer. - Francis Bacon refers to Pontius Pilate.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams


"Truth is a funny thing. Many want to be known as followers of the truth, but that same many subconsciously hope to avoid the consequences of catching it.
To apprehend the truth is to be changed into something we could never have imagined in the fog of our delusions. It takes true abandonment to faith in the Spirit of Truth to finally become conformed to His image. Having a vested interest in what the truth is always leads you to bow before your own image as you peer into that glass darkly. There is no substitute for taking up the cross that kills all ambition and self seeking and following that One who said, "I AM the Truth!" To fall short of this walk is to be forever caught in the lie."-Michael Clark


In the last days many want to be known as followers of the truth, but that same many subconsciously hope to avoid the consequences of catching it. The truth will lead to God and the consequences of being led to God means one must answer for what they do with that truth.


2 Timothy 3 New International Version (NIV)
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,

7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

I used to believe as you. Christian faith was dead. Because of my life and the people that I worked with. this is nonsense. there are Christians working around the world helping people. And you are sitting here trying to analyze what occurred 5000 years ago??? God is real and if you truly wanted to believe, you would do something to make a difference...
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#6
I used to believe as you. Christian faith was dead. Because of my life and the people that I worked with. this is nonsense. there are Christians working around the world helping people. And you are sitting here trying to analyze what occurred 5000 years ago??? God is real and if you truly wanted to believe, you would do something to make a difference...
Your path to truth is correct, God is real and Jesus is the only way.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
558
113
#7
I thought when I saw the thread title that it was all about Pontius Pilate. Wish you expounded a bit more on his situation. :)
I'll just say this: the truth isn't a "what", as God (ultimate reality of Truth) cannot be an object. Created things are objects.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#8
I thought when I saw the thread title that it was all about Pontius Pilate. Wish you expounded a bit more on his situation. :)
I'll just say this: the truth isn't a "what", as God (ultimate reality of Truth) cannot be an object. Created things are objects.
Here you go. What is the metaphysical reality of truth?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,663
1,830
113
#9
WHat you dont know what the truth is? You cant handle the truth! Lol

The truth is you are just asking these questions cos you want to find out and scared to admit you dont know. Its ok to ask questions if you are in doubt. Thats why we pray and ask God stuff, and look in the Bible. GOd doesnt lie. He is not a man that he would lie. So you can trust Him.

God has no agenda to lie. It would be completely against His nature to lie.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#10
WHat you dont know what the truth is? You cant handle the truth! Lol

The truth is you are just asking these questions cos you want to find out and scared to admit you dont know. Its ok to ask questions if you are in doubt. Thats why we pray and ask God stuff, and look in the Bible. GOd doesnt lie. He is not a man that he would lie. So you can trust Him.

God has no agenda to lie. It would be completely against His nature to lie.
This is the question of the culture. A question we must all be ready to answer when our secular friends and strangers promote some of the illogical arguments that are based out of the idea the that truth is subjective.
 
Aug 28, 2019
62
41
18
#11
I will make this short and sweet the TRUTH is what God's word has to say . Right is right and wrong is wrong It is black or white no gray . No hot or cold , no sitting on the fince . If you want the TRUTH go to God's word and do your home work . It may take some time to find your answers but they are there .
 

Hillfarm

Active member
Sep 11, 2019
126
98
28
#12
If we start to accept truth as "your own reality", then we go down a very slippery slope. At that point, we must accept the pedophiles, murders, rapist, terrorist and corrupt officials for their own reality. Then we become bait for the sharks with blood in the water. There is no gray, only one truth, and two genders. These are socialist agendas meant to divide our great nation.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#13
I will make this short and sweet the TRUTH is what God's word has to say . Right is right and wrong is wrong It is black or white no gray . No hot or cold , no sitting on the fince . If you want the TRUTH go to God's word and do your home work . It may take some time to find your answers but they are there .
This is good when your speaking to someone who believes the Bible but if your speaking to a secularist, agnostic, atheist, or of a different religion then your answer carries no weight in less you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that your religion deserves to be the source of all objective truths.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#14
If we start to accept truth as "your own reality", then we go down a very slippery slope. At that point, we must accept the pedophiles, murders, rapist, terrorist and corrupt officials for their own reality. Then we become bait for the sharks with blood in the water. There is no gray, only one truth, and two genders. These are socialist agendas meant to divide our great nation.
Truth becomes what those in power believe instead what is universally true for all people.

A materialistic worldview upholds the survival of the fittest mindset. I'm the fittest and the weakest subject themselves to me and my beliefs. No higher power but me and all those who claim a different truth must die.
 

jacob_g

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
292
125
43
#15
Always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Our culture, social media, education and the internet are being flooded with ideas, worldviews, idealogies that build on older thoughts or mix old thoughts to create new ones. We see these in memes, short YouTube videos, or short news articles. Always learning but never arriving to the truth.


Some will read a meme or a short news article and out of gullibility or even laziness they accept the idea without following it, researching it, cross examine opposing ideas and read multiple sources both articles and books.


So much information with not enough time in the day to follow every idea all the way through. All the way through the emotional response and on into the logical and reasonable consequences of such ideas. Easiest way to test if a idea needs more thought is by asking yourself a few questions.


1.What is the foundation of those beliefs? ( example: Do you believe because of your parents, a teacher, a internet blogger.)


2.What justification does your belief have? ( Example: there are just two truth values: true and false. A proposition is true if it corresponds to reality; otherwise it is false.)


3.How well are you able to defend your beliefs?


So if your belief began from a popular internet blogger, does the belief correspond to reality and are you able to defend it if put on the spot. Are you held in confirmation bias or has those beliefs been held to the fire to be refined or burned up?


What is truth?


Of truth. What is truth? said jesting Pilate, and would not stay for an answer. - Francis Bacon refers to Pontius Pilate.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams


"Truth is a funny thing. Many want to be known as followers of the truth, but that same many subconsciously hope to avoid the consequences of catching it.
To apprehend the truth is to be changed into something we could never have imagined in the fog of our delusions. It takes true abandonment to faith in the Spirit of Truth to finally become conformed to His image. Having a vested interest in what the truth is always leads you to bow before your own image as you peer into that glass darkly. There is no substitute for taking up the cross that kills all ambition and self seeking and following that One who said, "I AM the Truth!" To fall short of this walk is to be forever caught in the lie."-Michael Clark


In the last days many want to be known as followers of the truth, but that same many subconsciously hope to avoid the consequences of catching it. The truth will lead to God and the consequences of being led to God means one must answer for what they do with that truth.


2 Timothy 3 New International Version (NIV)
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,

7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
This is the easiest question ever.... Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life... The Scripture is Truth... and if it does not match up it is false/lie... There is NO such thing as my truth, your truth, their truth... What a bunch of New Age crap!!!
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#16
This is the easiest question ever.... Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life... The Scripture is Truth... and if it does not match up it is false/lie... There is NO such thing as my truth, your truth, their truth... What a bunch of New Age crap!!!
It's easy for the Christian but I was explaining when talking to a nonbeliever who doesn't see the Bible as authoritative let alone true. How do you defend truth in light of that context.
 

jacob_g

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
292
125
43
#17
It's easy for the Christian but I was explaining when talking to a nonbeliever who doesn't see the Bible as authoritative let alone true. How do you defend truth in light of that context.
First off the Word is alive and sharper than a two edged sword... God defends Himself. It's a conversation with people. Today (I guess yesterday now) a man in the parking lot of the grocery store offered to wash my windows for money.... I smile and said yes, you are willing to work for money. He saw chocolate milk I bought and said that looks good. I told him he could have one (I bought 3 gallons) and gave it to him. When he thanked me, I said I am a Christian who really believes in Jesus. And the man talked to me. I shared Jesus with him... what will happen I do not know... One plans, one waters, God brings in the increase...

I remember when I was in school, I was sitting with a girl from my chemistry class, in the cafeteria. I said to he after sharing Scripture, the great C. S. Lewis question... Jesus is either who He says He is, a lier, or insane? She said she thought Jesus was insane? That was the greatest answer ever... I got to share with her the eye witnesses, over 500 people after the resurrection, prophase only He could fulfill and I was privileged by my Lord to lead her to Messiah.
Scripture is alive and sharper than a two edged sword... The Holy Spirit works, He is God. All I am called to do is be a witness; God does the rest!
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#18
First off the Word is alive and sharper than a two edged sword... God defends Himself. It's a conversation with people. Today (I guess yesterday now) a man in the parking lot of the grocery store offered to wash my windows for money.... I smile and said yes, you are willing to work for money. He saw chocolate milk I bought and said that looks good. I told him he could have one (I bought 3 gallons) and gave it to him. When he thanked me, I said I am a Christian who really believes in Jesus. And the man talked to me. I shared Jesus with him... what will happen I do not know... One plans, one waters, God brings in the increase...

I remember when I was in school, I was sitting with a girl from my chemistry class, in the cafeteria. I said to he after sharing Scripture, the great C. S. Lewis question... Jesus is either who He says He is, a lier, or insane? She said she thought Jesus was insane? That was the greatest answer ever... I got to share with her the eye witnesses, over 500 people after the resurrection, prophase only He could fulfill and I was privileged by my Lord to lead her to Messiah.
Scripture is alive and sharper than a two edged sword... The Holy Spirit works, He is God. All I am called to do is be a witness; God does the rest!
Great testimony!
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
12,248
6,672
113
73
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#19
It's easy for the Christian but I was explaining when talking to a nonbeliever who doesn't see the Bible as authoritative let alone true. How do you defend truth in light of that context.
It is really not your job to defend God's word. If there is a God, and He is truly God and ultimately reigning supreme, then truth is subjective to His word. Leave the atheist and unbelievers alone, you have to convince them of nothing. God is not spiritually dealing with everyone and try to Christianize the world. That is Roman Catholic doctrine. :)
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,123
695
113
#20
It is really not your job to defend God's word. If there is a God, and He is truly God and ultimately reigning supreme, then truth is subjective to His word. Leave the atheist and unbelievers alone, you have to convince them of nothing. God is not spiritually dealing with everyone and try to Christianize the world. That is Roman Catholic doctrine. :)
Scripture tells us to defend what believe and you sound like your throwing out evangelism. Not sure about Roman Catholic but idk what doctrine teaches to not evangelize.