Yet another situation beyond help... Pray and advise

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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
558
113
#1
We have these neighbors that we barely know, a fragile old lady that is 70+ years old and her disabled daughter. They live alone. The daughter had a car accident or something and since then has been really ill and cannot move. The mother is not able to take good care of the daughter, she does not keep her clean so she sits in her own excrements and this depressing odor fills the house. The girl really needs to be in a proper facility where she will be kept clean and taken good care of and have company, it's bad enough that she is unable to take care of herself and I've heard she was such a perfect young lady before the accident, not only she's made into her own shadow but also stripped of the last shred of human dignity by her family's toxic decisions. Yet she did not lose her kindness and smiles, it's heartbreaking :( The family doesn't want to put her into a health care facility. (I asked my husband if it's money, but no it's not even a money issue they just decided so.) Their church is not stepping up, and we barely know them so it isn't our place to say anything. We don't mind helping her lift and move her at times but the thing is the issue shouldn't even be there. How do you help people who by making bad decisions basically make it impossible to help them? What can we do for them (esp. since we barely know them)? You can't even sit in that living room, otherwise we'd be visiting for daughter's sake. We don't really want to associate since the mom's shown before when someone is kind to her she loses all boundaries and gets very entitled, coming into houses and waking people up and stuff to give her rides several times a day for non urgent small errands (she calls them "emergencies"), so neighbors were forced to draw the line and keep their distance, one by one. I guess I could bake them some cookies still of something sometimes so the daughter can know somebody cares. But that's not solving anything. I don't even really know what I want with this post, I just couldn't get this out of my mind since we've been there this morning. I think that disabled girl deserves better. Please pray and give advice from your experience this is really depressing.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,330
7,828
113
65
Florida
#3
That's one of the risks of getting involved, after awhile people may think that they are now entitled to your help, any time of day for any reason whatsoever.

There seem to be two major concerns here, the welfare of the elderly lady and the welfare of her disabled daughter. I don't know how large the family is but they seem content to keep things status quo, perhaps they don't want to be bothered with the responsibility of the mother and daughter who seem incapable of taking care of themselves.

I really don't know what to say but you might want to reconsider taking a plater of cookies. First you bring the chocolate chip cookies, next the old lady is pressuring you to make and deliver peanut butter cookies. You will probably have to bring the cold milk too to go with them and probably some straws as well.

I do believe that the main problem is the mother and I am sure that the daughter would appreciate the cookies as long as mom doesn't scarf 'em all down. A possible solution is to have the family arrange for wellness visits from a state-run agency. Her daughter probably qualifies for this service. Her mom needs watching too.

You are in quite a conundrum. I am going to pray for God's will and desire to be accomplished in this matter but my main concern at the moment is for your peace of mind.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
558
113
#4
That's one of the risks of getting involved, after awhile people may think that they are now entitled to your help, any time of day for any reason whatsoever.

There seem to be two major concerns here, the welfare of the elderly lady and the welfare of her disabled daughter. I don't know how large the family is but they seem content to keep things status quo, perhaps they don't want to be bothered with the responsibility of the mother and daughter who seem incapable of taking care of themselves.

I really don't know what to say but you might want to reconsider taking a plater of cookies. First you bring the chocolate chip cookies, next the old lady is pressuring you to make and deliver peanut butter cookies. You will probably have to bring the cold milk too to go with them and probably some straws as well.

I do believe that the main problem is the mother and I am sure that the daughter would appreciate the cookies as long as mom doesn't scarf 'em all down. A possible solution is to have the family arrange for wellness visits from a state-run agency. Her daughter probably qualifies for this service. Her mom needs watching too.

You are in quite a conundrum. I am going to pray for God's will and desire to be accomplished in this matter but my main concern at the moment is for your peace of mind.
Yes the mother and the family are the problem. I don't care for whatever selfish reasons they think the daughter should be at home, the "care" she's being given is abuse. She needs to be in a facility. Medical personnel was coming and vising them after the accident, and they did try to provide care but were sent back and refused every time! It's like it's some pride or something... Husband and I have our own responsibilities, his mom is about to move back here and she's also disabled.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,027
1,268
113
Texas
#5
It may be for their own good that that the authorities are involved. It may be necessary to call the department of human services, and get a social worker involved.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
825
552
93
#6
It may be for their own good that that the authorities are involved. It may be necessary to call the department of human services, and get a social worker involved.
Especially if they are refusing help. Leastways that seems like the situation here.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,125
698
113
#7
We have these neighbors that we barely know, a fragile old lady that is 70+ years old and her disabled daughter. They live alone. The daughter had a car accident or something and since then has been really ill and cannot move. The mother is not able to take good care of the daughter, she does not keep her clean so she sits in her own excrements and this depressing odor fills the house. The girl really needs to be in a proper facility where she will be kept clean and taken good care of and have company, it's bad enough that she is unable to take care of herself and I've heard she was such a perfect young lady before the accident, not only she's made into her own shadow but also stripped of the last shred of human dignity by her family's toxic decisions. Yet she did not lose her kindness and smiles, it's heartbreaking :( The family doesn't want to put her into a health care facility. (I asked my husband if it's money, but no it's not even a money issue they just decided so.) Their church is not stepping up, and we barely know them so it isn't our place to say anything. We don't mind helping her lift and move her at times but the thing is the issue shouldn't even be there. How do you help people who by making bad decisions basically make it impossible to help them? What can we do for them (esp. since we barely know them)? You can't even sit in that living room, otherwise we'd be visiting for daughter's sake. We don't really want to associate since the mom's shown before when someone is kind to her she loses all boundaries and gets very entitled, coming into houses and waking people up and stuff to give her rides several times a day for non urgent small errands (she calls them "emergencies"), so neighbors were forced to draw the line and keep their distance, one by one. I guess I could bake them some cookies still of something sometimes so the daughter can know somebody cares. But that's not solving anything. I don't even really know what I want with this post, I just couldn't get this out of my mind since we've been there this morning. I think that disabled girl deserves better. Please pray and give advice from your experience this is really depressing.
We have dealt with something not exactly the same but difficult altogether. My wife's sister got pregnant from 4 different men. 2 she has kept 1 is 14 and the other 12. The other she gave up for adoption to a good family. The last one she is currently pregnant with.

The 2 oldest to make a long story short has dealt with poor living conditions, abuse, hunger, bullying, no baths, no new clothes, no clean clothes, roach and flea infested, male father roles that ended in failure, and the mother time and time again would get fired, or make really poor decisions.

My family, my wife's parents, churches, the state, and federal programs have all over the years have done everything to help her get it together.

She wouldn't do it. The oldest son started threatening suicide, harm to others, stealing, setting fires and getting in trouble at school and cops. The school has been racist towards him for being white while the majority is black. He gets picked on and the teachers or the mother wont do anything.

He has been forced to see a therapist and is supposed to be on meds for his now psychological issues. His mom doesn't get his meds.

Then she gets pregnant with a new guy and all of a sudden a few weeks ago tries to call us to sign over her parental rights to us because he was too stressful on her and the new child.

Again we desperately wanted to help but ultimately through prayer, advice from loved ones, our Pastor who has also been talking to the mother and son, all told us we couldn't do it. We had to put the safety of our family first.

All we could do was call DFCS which is Georgia child protective services.

Sometimes a situation is really bad and the individuals are not willing to help themselves or take care of their children. For the sake of the child the conditions of being admitted into a state ran system may unfortunately be better than their current situation. It's not easy as for us we have done so much for them and been with the oldest son through so much. It tore us apart but in reality I had to put my family first and no other family members was willing to step up to take the child.

It has been weeks and we still dont know what happened. It's just a hard reality that we cannot help everyone from our side. Sometimes prayer is our only choice. Our fallen sinful world is filled with unthinkable and tragic events that happen beyond our control. If it's out of pur control then all we can do within control is pray.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,720
1,848
113
#8
Its more neglect but im wondering how old the daughter is.
Does she not want or need help changing her clothes or doing laundry or something. Has she asked for help? Until she asks theres not much you can do, esp if theyve refused social workers and others.

You just need to be praying for them that God will work in their lives. Dont act unless God has specifically told you to. Only He knows what will work for them. Sadly the choices people make have consequences, for example you dont know if this car accident it was the girl driving recklessly or not looking. Or the mother? Dont always assume that accidents are out of peoples control. A lot of what causes accidents is foolish choices. So they need to live with the consequences of their choices we cant go and rescue anybody out of them until they actually realise what they did wrong and need to make things right.
 

melita916

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
9,898
2,007
113
#9
This is a tough situation. I work for a home health agency, and whenever a field staff sees the patient is in danger, they call APS. Sometimes, APS already has a case on file or they’ll start a new one. It’s not an easy thing.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
558
113
#10
Its more neglect but im wondering how old the daughter is.
Does she not want or need help changing her clothes or doing laundry or something. Has she asked for help? Until she asks theres not much you can do, esp if theyve refused social workers and others.
The daughter is an adult woman looks 30+... the mom is old (70-80yo)...
 
Jun 25, 2015
112
175
43
#11
It may be for their own good that that the authorities are involved. It may be necessary to call the department of human services, and get a social worker involved.
Yeah, I agree on this. Better let the authorities be involve in this situation.

Above all, I pray for wisdom to be upon you. Blessings!
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
1,340
1,032
113
#12
Hi SoulWeaver,
A few things don't make sense. You mentioned this family belonged to a church. Just wondering why their church doesn't seem to be helping.

Also you said that neighbours have tried to help in small ways in the past. I am just wondering why none of them reported this family to the correct department.
I guess I am wondering whether this girl has begged to not be reported as she is scared to go into care as she would feel institutionalized and because of that people who are aware of the situation have not yet reported this.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,908
525
113
#13
We have these neighbors that we barely know, a fragile old lady that is 70+ years old and her disabled daughter. They live alone. The daughter had a car accident or something and since then has been really ill and cannot move. The mother is not able to take good care of the daughter, she does not keep her clean so she sits in her own excrements and this depressing odor fills the house. The girl really needs to be in a proper facility where she will be kept clean and taken good care of and have company, it's bad enough that she is unable to take care of herself and I've heard she was such a perfect young lady before the accident, not only she's made into her own shadow but also stripped of the last shred of human dignity by her family's toxic decisions. Yet she did not lose her kindness and smiles, it's heartbreaking :( The family doesn't want to put her into a health care facility. (I asked my husband if it's money, but no it's not even a money issue they just decided so.) Their church is not stepping up, and we barely know them so it isn't our place to say anything. We don't mind helping her lift and move her at times but the thing is the issue shouldn't even be there. How do you help people who by making bad decisions basically make it impossible to help them? What can we do for them (esp. since we barely know them)? You can't even sit in that living room, otherwise we'd be visiting for daughter's sake. We don't really want to associate since the mom's shown before when someone is kind to her she loses all boundaries and gets very entitled, coming into houses and waking people up and stuff to give her rides several times a day for non urgent small errands (she calls them "emergencies"), so neighbors were forced to draw the line and keep their distance, one by one. I guess I could bake them some cookies still of something sometimes so the daughter can know somebody cares. But that's not solving anything. I don't even really know what I want with this post, I just couldn't get this out of my mind since we've been there this morning. I think that disabled girl deserves better. Please pray and give advice from your experience this is really depressing.
Not sure where you are from, but in Kentucky there are several programs that help in these type of situations. If the disability stems from a car accident after the age of 18 then it would fall into Acquired Brain Injury (ABI). The ABI waiver would not only pay for facilities, but there is also an option for home care. Meaning she could receive a case manager and support staff to work with her at home. To ensure that her needs are being met and that she is able to receive care in the least restrictive environment.

There are many waivers in Kentucky that deal with this, and are very beneficial to individuals and families of those with Intellectual Disabilities, Developmental Delays, Acquired Brain Injury, etc.

Anyhow, like I said I'm not sure where you are located, but it is worth checking out programs in your area and educating the family on the resources that are available.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,908
525
113
#14

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
2,706
558
113
#15
Hi SoulWeaver,
A few things don't make sense. You mentioned this family belonged to a church. Just wondering why their church doesn't seem to be helping.

Also you said that neighbours have tried to help in small ways in the past. I am just wondering why none of them reported this family to the correct department.
I guess I am wondering whether this girl has begged to not be reported as she is scared to go into care as she would feel institutionalized and because of that people who are aware of the situation have not yet reported this.
This is what I was also thinking after my previous posts. The girl (actually an adult woman I don't know why I said girl I guess out of endearment) might not want to be institutionalized. I was wondering also why was the church not intervening. It's really hard for me to believe they haven't visited her after the accident, and they they don't pay her visits now, while she's sick and can't go see them. If they didn't, it's a horrible church.
The state medical service does visit them still from time to time, they rejected and sent them back when they were trying to provide care in the beginning. Now they come only for checkups. But they also must be aware of the situation, as they come for checkups.
 

tjogs

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2009
315
15
18
#16
As I don't know enough details this is just a guess based on the image drawn here.
Im from different country so our laws may be somewhat different too. Here if something like that happens it could (not always will but could) be raised to authorities to consider as charge of abuse over person in helpless state, which in further can be considered even criminal offence.
This works to the "victim" in both ways. to some people it's great save and relief when gov takes over them and sets up treatment etc they would need. To other it may be family breaking event with denial to see your parents/children. And because we live in non perfect world full of sins for example kid separated from mom who is into narcotics will end up to crime and narcotics himself at later age.

My own family have gone trough this investigation (our child's daycare contacted the gov) when we had our crisis and for us it was only positive. We never would have gotten as much help if nobody hadn't stepped up over the concern of my daughter and her physical and mental safety.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,908
525
113
#17
I've been in case management for years. I've seen it go both ways. Sometimes families are just negligent. Then again sometimes they may not understand themselves, and need help.

I've seen 70 to 80 year old women trying to take care of their 30 to 40 year old son or daughter who was unable to take care of themselves. They loved their adult children, and did not want to have them sent to residential services. They were just unable to care for their adult children on their own. Wasn't able to physically make sure they were properly cared for. I've set many of these individuals up with services so that they would have support staff come into the home and assist with bathing, feeding, respite care services, etc.

These families are now doing well and get to stay together. Sometimes all is needed is education for the family and extra services to assist. It is not always best to just take a person from their family.

There are many services available in our state that help individuals stay in their home and communities by providing the assistance that they need.

Case managers can assist with service plans and identifying needs of individuals and families. Case managers also monitor for the health, safety, and welfare of each individual to ensure that they are getting the needed services whether that be staying in the home with extra services or in some case residential services.

So please contact your state or have the persons church members contact the state and ascertain of resources available in your community. This could make all the difference in this persons quality of life.
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
1,340
1,032
113
#18
This is what I was also thinking after my previous posts. The girl (actually an adult woman I don't know why I said girl I guess out of endearment) might not want to be institutionalized. I was wondering also why was the church not intervening. It's really hard for me to believe they haven't visited her after the accident, and they they don't pay her visits now, while she's sick and can't go see them. If they didn't, it's a horrible church.
The state medical service does visit them still from time to time, they rejected and sent them back when they were trying to provide care in the beginning. Now they come only for checkups. But they also must be aware of the situation, as they come for checkups.
If you can talk to their church or surrounding neighbours you may get some more information to fill in the blanks. Maybe you can find their motivation for keeping their daughter at home. Then you can make a clear decision as to whether to report the matter or not.

I am surprised that the medical service that visits allows this situation to remain so. If the daughter passes away due to neglect I would have thought the medical services would be responsible for allowing this.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,908
525
113
#19
If you can talk to their church or surrounding neighbours you may get some more information to fill in the blanks. Maybe you can find their motivation for keeping their daughter at home. Then you can make a clear decision as to whether to report the matter or not.

I am surprised that the medical service that visits allows this situation to remain so. If the daughter passes away due to neglect I would have thought the medical services would be responsible for allowing this.
Yes, you are mandated by state law to report any type of abuse, neglect, and/or exploitation to the the state. If someone is receiving medical or mental health services the state agency will do a lengthy investigation. In case of a death, the state will review all case notes, medical records, police records, conduct interviews, etc. Anyone who had prior knowledge could be found liable, and that goes double time for medical and mental health providers.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
206
57
28
#20
We should all be so blessed as to have an opportunity to serve as God has ask us to serve .
The problem is this family next door has legal boundaries which you have to decide if you are are willing to cross.
If your faith runs deep enough to confront these bounders then go.
Other wise approach with caution.
Myself I would not care. I will willingly give my life to save someone from suffering such a death.
However I do not consider my life to be of much value. Sorry.