Secular Music
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Their original heyday was a little before my time, too. I was 14 years old when they first disbanded, but I'd seen live clips of them on various TV shows, and so I knew they had talent. But it was only around 10 years ago or so, when they came together for their appropriately-titled album "10", that I really began to appreciate them personally. I can't say they're my all-time favorites or anything, but I do enjoy some of their efforts.
That music possesses a cathartic characteristic implies its power to purify. The Greek word translated "pure" is katharos sometimes used to describe the cleansing of a wound (catharsis). So it would seem to me that, depending on whether a song is sung in protest or in celebration of wrong, that would determine its power to corrupt.
i doubt i would have liked the band when i was a kid to teen years because i didn't go for the partridge family, the osmonds or the jackson five either when i was young. & we were a musical family, big time. we listened to jazz, r & r, rock, country , classic as in beethoven, mozart, brahms, rachmaninov, tchaikovsky, etc., top 40, blues & so on.
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I had a standard music class in my school years, and the teacher played some classical stuff, but I could never fully devote myself to it. I was always much more interested in the local radio station, which was strange because my legalistic elders often condemned me regarding other forms of entertainment. When I was in my teens I listened to a lot of country music, but I eventually stepped away for a few years because it just started getting depressing. The mid-2000s changed that though, when I quickly became a fan of the trio group Rascal Flatts.
so prevalent is the condemning of rock & other types of music when the condemners ought to really listen to a band first, then make a decision. millions think ALL rock music is bad. they ae incorrect on that. if Jesus were here, he would like a decent number of rock bands & i don't just mean Christian rock.
I've long been convinced that the message is more important, as opposed to the method. If a band is singing about having sex outside of marriage and drinking all the time, I don't think Jesus would approve. But if the songs are about being selfless, or treating others with respect even if you don't always agree with them...maybe our Savior would have a better perspective there.
First: Howdy and welcome to the forum.
Second: That's an easy one! First Corinthians chapter ten, the whole last half of the chapter. Basically:
"If someone makes something and presents it as 'This is evil, and we are doing it to be evil' then you should avoid it for the sake of those around you, lest they see you partaking in something blatantly evil and their faith is damaged thereby. But you shouldn't bend over backward to find out if a piece of meat was cooked in idolatrous surroundings because this whole world is God's and belongs to Him."
Even logic tells you that a rock is neither good nor evil, until someone uses it to either build a wall or bash someone's head in.
Second: That's an easy one! First Corinthians chapter ten, the whole last half of the chapter. Basically:
"If someone makes something and presents it as 'This is evil, and we are doing it to be evil' then you should avoid it for the sake of those around you, lest they see you partaking in something blatantly evil and their faith is damaged thereby. But you shouldn't bend over backward to find out if a piece of meat was cooked in idolatrous surroundings because this whole world is God's and belongs to Him."
Even logic tells you that a rock is neither good nor evil, until someone uses it to either build a wall or bash someone's head in.
Insane! Where did you find this in 1 Cor. 10?? It's not even close. It's pure eiesgesis. So bad and out of context. It's a lie.
First. Paul is specifically talking about meat sacrificed to idols. Jews would not eat meat sacrificed to idols. But after the final sacrifice for sin by Jesus on the cross any sacrifice, pagan or Jewish meant nothing to Christians. Exvept some Jews couldn't break their habits!
""I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. 24 No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.
25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”
27 If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before youwithout raising questions of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. 29 I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience?30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33 even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved." 1 Cor 10:28-33 NIV
Please cite your version and verses, in future. Paul was not saying Christians can do whatever they want! Instead he is saying obey Christ. The rules for how we decide what is right or wrong are clearly marked in the Bible. Meat sacrificed to idols is a grey area, eat or don't eat depending on your conscience, if you are a Gentile. It is NOT about us. Paul lays out some criteria on how to judge grey or neutral areas of other things..
1. Is it beneficial? If not, you'd be stupid to do it!
2. With an unbeliever, chose what is best for them, to win them to Christ. Since meat sacrificed to idols offends Jews, don't do it, become a Jew to win them to Christ. If it is a pagan, eat the meat, it won't hurt you, but it may open a bridge to share the gospel with the Gentile. Paul had a fervour for spreading the gospel, he used this example as a way to win people to Christ,
3. Do everything for the glory of God.
4. Don't turn anyone away from the gospel because of neutral area things, as per the 4 things decided on in the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15:
"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” Acts 15:19-2
Interesting to note Paul has already changed one of those rules. For one reason, to not make it difficult for Gentiles turning to Christ. Just like he told the Galatian Judaizers not to circumcise male Gentiles.
Finally, Prodigal's question was NOT correctly answered. that statement is not found anywhere in the Bible. It's completely the opposite of Bible teaching. It's the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross. This belief below, is an outright heresy!
"The Bible makes it clear that nothing can be good or evil in and of itself."
It's obvious you've never read the Bible, the whole point of the Bible is to reveal Jesus. Why reveal him? Because we are all sinners. Jesus came and died to save us from our sins, or bad actions. If nothing is good or evil in itself, sin has no meaning, no definition, no cure, no need of a cure. Smash that inanimate rock or build a wall?
This is not about rocks, but how we act before a holy & righteous God! The man murdering someone with his rock will be punished! His sin is totally evil, he will have severe consequences. Read the prophets in the OT - they had one purpose. To call out Jews and Gentiles nations and convict them of their sin and get them to repent. The NT is all about sin!
"What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”*
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."
Romans 3:9-19
Look at those sin lists! Full of things which are evil or sin.
There are many sin lists in the NT. This is defining right from wrong, evil from good! No situational ethics here!
Here's the bad:
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21
Here's the good:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
I've never seen situational ethics applied this way in this post! It is not biblical at all. My suggestion is to read the Bible, in modern Bible that is closer to word to word than paraphrase. Then you will learn you are a sinner, as we all are, who have broken God's laws continually!
*Psalm 14:1-3
First. Paul is specifically talking about meat sacrificed to idols. Jews would not eat meat sacrificed to idols. But after the final sacrifice for sin by Jesus on the cross any sacrifice, pagan or Jewish meant nothing to Christians. Exvept some Jews couldn't break their habits!
""I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. 24 No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.
25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”
27 If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before youwithout raising questions of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. 29 I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience?30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33 even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved." 1 Cor 10:28-33 NIV
Please cite your version and verses, in future. Paul was not saying Christians can do whatever they want! Instead he is saying obey Christ. The rules for how we decide what is right or wrong are clearly marked in the Bible. Meat sacrificed to idols is a grey area, eat or don't eat depending on your conscience, if you are a Gentile. It is NOT about us. Paul lays out some criteria on how to judge grey or neutral areas of other things..
1. Is it beneficial? If not, you'd be stupid to do it!
2. With an unbeliever, chose what is best for them, to win them to Christ. Since meat sacrificed to idols offends Jews, don't do it, become a Jew to win them to Christ. If it is a pagan, eat the meat, it won't hurt you, but it may open a bridge to share the gospel with the Gentile. Paul had a fervour for spreading the gospel, he used this example as a way to win people to Christ,
3. Do everything for the glory of God.
4. Don't turn anyone away from the gospel because of neutral area things, as per the 4 things decided on in the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15:
"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” Acts 15:19-2
Interesting to note Paul has already changed one of those rules. For one reason, to not make it difficult for Gentiles turning to Christ. Just like he told the Galatian Judaizers not to circumcise male Gentiles.
Finally, Prodigal's question was NOT correctly answered. that statement is not found anywhere in the Bible. It's completely the opposite of Bible teaching. It's the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross. This belief below, is an outright heresy!
"The Bible makes it clear that nothing can be good or evil in and of itself."
It's obvious you've never read the Bible, the whole point of the Bible is to reveal Jesus. Why reveal him? Because we are all sinners. Jesus came and died to save us from our sins, or bad actions. If nothing is good or evil in itself, sin has no meaning, no definition, no cure, no need of a cure. Smash that inanimate rock or build a wall?
This is not about rocks, but how we act before a holy & righteous God! The man murdering someone with his rock will be punished! His sin is totally evil, he will have severe consequences. Read the prophets in the OT - they had one purpose. To call out Jews and Gentiles nations and convict them of their sin and get them to repent. The NT is all about sin!
"What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”*
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."
Romans 3:9-19
Look at those sin lists! Full of things which are evil or sin.
There are many sin lists in the NT. This is defining right from wrong, evil from good! No situational ethics here!
Here's the bad:
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21
Here's the good:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
I've never seen situational ethics applied this way in this post! It is not biblical at all. My suggestion is to read the Bible, in modern Bible that is closer to word to word than paraphrase. Then you will learn you are a sinner, as we all are, who have broken God's laws continually!
*Psalm 14:1-3
Hmm... Who said anything about Christians doing whatever they want?
Paul was saying there is nothing inherently good or evil in the world God made. Humans make it good or evil by choosing to use it for good or evil.
And my version is KJV, with occasional ASV in a side window and Clarke's commentary on standby. Gotta love modern bible programs for cross correlation.
Paul was saying there is nothing inherently good or evil in the world God made. Humans make it good or evil by choosing to use it for good or evil.
And my version is KJV, with occasional ASV in a side window and Clarke's commentary on standby. Gotta love modern bible programs for cross correlation.
Hmm... It's early morning and some of my mental auto-checks haven't booted up yet.
There is nothing inherently evil in the world God made. (Don't know how that "good" slipped in there. Lots of stuff good in the world God made.) Paul was saying there is nothing inherently evil until people make it evil by using it for evil.
Even a banana can be made into a banana rum daquiri.
There is nothing inherently evil in the world God made. (Don't know how that "good" slipped in there. Lots of stuff good in the world God made.) Paul was saying there is nothing inherently evil until people make it evil by using it for evil.
Even a banana can be made into a banana rum daquiri.
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I believe it is good to listen to, but only some of the artists. Naturally the human mind is drawn to music and hearing things. Bad music, promotes a lot of problematic things. But good music uplifts. I listen to Christian music a lot. William Mcdowell is awesome. But honestly it doesnt edify me personally because my fasting and bible reading does that.