about the baker who lost business when sued by "gays"
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Yes, I completely agree. The biggest arguments and resistance I'm seeing in this thread are those looking to the words and acts of the apostles rather than what Jesus did and said.
Time and time again Jesus did the exact opposite of what the faithful Jews thought he would and should. Like when he stopped the application of old law with the stoning to death of the adulterers. Instead of picking up a rock and hurling it, he called everyone in the crowd out for being sinners themselves and therefore asked what authority they have in their own state of sin to be carry out such an act of righteousness.
And at the end of the day, ain't that the truth. None of us are perfect. So acting all high and mighty and waving your Bible around proclaiming that 'on page 1458 it says you're naughty and you're going to hell' isn't going to solve anything.
Even if we follow the alternate path of the Baker actually going against his conviction and making this cake and even if it was a sin to do it (I've shown why I'm certain it's not) God is merciful and he would forgive the poor baker.
God is always watching and he knows what is in our hearts. And when we fall, he's got a plan. It's his only son Jesus who took every single sin and indiscretion we've made and ever will make to the cross on Calvary. And that's why I said in the first reply to this thread that I would made the cake and prayed for forgiveness of the gay couple over it in private before giving it to them.
Time and time again Jesus did the exact opposite of what the faithful Jews thought he would and should. Like when he stopped the application of old law with the stoning to death of the adulterers. Instead of picking up a rock and hurling it, he called everyone in the crowd out for being sinners themselves and therefore asked what authority they have in their own state of sin to be carry out such an act of righteousness.
And at the end of the day, ain't that the truth. None of us are perfect. So acting all high and mighty and waving your Bible around proclaiming that 'on page 1458 it says you're naughty and you're going to hell' isn't going to solve anything.
Even if we follow the alternate path of the Baker actually going against his conviction and making this cake and even if it was a sin to do it (I've shown why I'm certain it's not) God is merciful and he would forgive the poor baker.
God is always watching and he knows what is in our hearts. And when we fall, he's got a plan. It's his only son Jesus who took every single sin and indiscretion we've made and ever will make to the cross on Calvary. And that's why I said in the first reply to this thread that I would made the cake and prayed for forgiveness of the gay couple over it in private before giving it to them.
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Thank you, Mark! You know . . . what you have just done is prove (to me) that you have actually read and did your utmost best to understand every word that you have and continue to read. Our character and personality as True Christians is as plain as can be. What happened to "feeding our enemies"?
A simple Blue Letter Bible search of "do good to them" delivers these three KJV results:
Matthew 5:44 KJV - "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you . . ."
Luke 6:27, 33 KJV - "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you" ... 33 "And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same."
Luke 6:33 should convince any skeptic . . . but for those who have yet to have the Sin Nature removed and cut out from their Hearts, it will be literally impossible to understand these essential, Core Truths.
A simple Blue Letter Bible search of "do good to them" delivers these three KJV results:
Matthew 5:44 KJV - "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you . . ."
Luke 6:27, 33 KJV - "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you" ... 33 "And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same."
Luke 6:33 should convince any skeptic . . . but for those who have yet to have the Sin Nature removed and cut out from their Hearts, it will be literally impossible to understand these essential, Core Truths.
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Faithful Word Baptist Church
Tempe, AZ
Pastor Steven Anderson
(602) 456-1049
[email protected]
Give him a call. Maybe you should even send him a link to this thread? Tell us how it goes.
Tempe, AZ
Pastor Steven Anderson
(602) 456-1049
[email protected]
Give him a call. Maybe you should even send him a link to this thread? Tell us how it goes.
Wow, you just blew me away. I'd have never thought that you'd offer up such information. In fact, I figured that if anything, you'd share it off-line. Either way, MASSIVE respect for you. I can respect anyone who is willing to do as you have done.
I don't know your name, nor did I ask for it (I wasn't planning on doing anything against you that would cause you any grief). You bet. I'll give him a call and expect to have an enjoyable chat.
I don't know your name, nor did I ask for it (I wasn't planning on doing anything against you that would cause you any grief). You bet. I'll give him a call and expect to have an enjoyable chat.
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Are you a part of your church program? This sounds awesome!!! Just think . . . as an owner of a bakery, you could have taught the gospel to every gay person that came into your shop. What an opportunity it could be! After all, these programs are designed not for those who are saved, but for those who are in deep, deep sin.
Small Town Soul-Winning Program
Our church spends several hours a week out soul-winning in the greater Phoenix area. In fact, we have official soul-winning times that meet every day of the week in order to make it convenient for people to work soul-winning into their schedule. We are in the process of eventually knocking every door in our county. However, many small towns, or "villages" as the Bible calls them, scattered across Arizona and across America have never had a soul-winning Baptist church in their town. How will these people hear the Gospel? Many people live and die in small towns with no Gospel-preaching church. How shall they hear without a preacher?
Every 3 months, our church spends a Saturday knocking every single door in a small town in Arizona preaching the gospel to everyone who will listen. So far we have knocked every door in Gila Bend, Miami, Cordes Lakes, Congress, Strawberry, Kearny, Hayden, Winkelman, Mammoth, Dudleyville, Black Canyon City, Peach Springs, Sacaton, Cibecue, Bylas, Tuba City, Tonalea, Shonto, Lechee, Kayenta, and Window Rock, and have had many, many people saved. Eventually our church will reach every small town in Arizona with the Gospel.
In addition, our church holds soul-winning marathons in other states to help get people involved in soul-winning who do not attend a church with an agressive soul-winning program. These events are attended by anywhere from 50-300 people. So far, we have held soul-winning marathons in Detroit, Washington DC, Portland, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Boston, Fort Worth, San Antonio, Jacksonville, Minneapolis, Maine, New Orleans, Albuquerque, Toronto, and Winnipeg. The goal is to eventually have a soul-winning marathon in each of the 50 states.
Mark 1:38 And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth.
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
I sure love your churches concept of things! Check this out! Your church website states this:
Soul Winning at Faithful Word Baptist Church
Small Town Soul-Winning Program
Our church spends several hours a week out soul-winning in the greater Phoenix area. In fact, we have official soul-winning times that meet every day of the week in order to make it convenient for people to work soul-winning into their schedule. We are in the process of eventually knocking every door in our county. However, many small towns, or "villages" as the Bible calls them, scattered across Arizona and across America have never had a soul-winning Baptist church in their town. How will these people hear the Gospel? Many people live and die in small towns with no Gospel-preaching church. How shall they hear without a preacher?
Every 3 months, our church spends a Saturday knocking every single door in a small town in Arizona preaching the gospel to everyone who will listen. So far we have knocked every door in Gila Bend, Miami, Cordes Lakes, Congress, Strawberry, Kearny, Hayden, Winkelman, Mammoth, Dudleyville, Black Canyon City, Peach Springs, Sacaton, Cibecue, Bylas, Tuba City, Tonalea, Shonto, Lechee, Kayenta, and Window Rock, and have had many, many people saved. Eventually our church will reach every small town in Arizona with the Gospel.
In addition, our church holds soul-winning marathons in other states to help get people involved in soul-winning who do not attend a church with an agressive soul-winning program. These events are attended by anywhere from 50-300 people. So far, we have held soul-winning marathons in Detroit, Washington DC, Portland, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Boston, Fort Worth, San Antonio, Jacksonville, Minneapolis, Maine, New Orleans, Albuquerque, Toronto, and Winnipeg. The goal is to eventually have a soul-winning marathon in each of the 50 states.
Mark 1:38 And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth.
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
I sure love your churches concept of things! Check this out! Your church website states this:
Soul Winning at Faithful Word Baptist Church
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
-Proverbs 11:30
-Proverbs 11:30
I was relieved when I heard that theSupreme Court, which I had almost come to despise, made the correct decision in the baker case..
A baker named Phillips in CO had to deal with "gay people" demanding that he bake them a cake for their same sex wedding and he refused bc of his Christians beliefs on gay marriage. (I put "gay" in quotes attimes bc I don't believe in being gay, don't believe anyone is born gay.. its nonsense)
So the Supreme Ct voted in favor of religious freedom... whew... They've made a lot of bad decisions b4 butthis was not one of them.
So then a transgendered person thought he (she?) would do the samething to the same guy! Unbelievable.
Phillips had lost 40% of his business over thefirst lawsuit, fighting some (city?) Commission that ordered him not to make certain kinds of cakes anymore... So much for "it's a free country"...
anyway, the transgendered person at some point dropped the suit
I just thought I would share this w/ others who may not know about it..
sigh
[nostalgic sigh for the good old days when hardly anyone claimed to be "gay"]
A baker named Phillips in CO had to deal with "gay people" demanding that he bake them a cake for their same sex wedding and he refused bc of his Christians beliefs on gay marriage. (I put "gay" in quotes attimes bc I don't believe in being gay, don't believe anyone is born gay.. its nonsense)
So the Supreme Ct voted in favor of religious freedom... whew... They've made a lot of bad decisions b4 butthis was not one of them.
So then a transgendered person thought he (she?) would do the samething to the same guy! Unbelievable.
Phillips had lost 40% of his business over thefirst lawsuit, fighting some (city?) Commission that ordered him not to make certain kinds of cakes anymore... So much for "it's a free country"...
anyway, the transgendered person at some point dropped the suit
I just thought I would share this w/ others who may not know about it..
sigh
[nostalgic sigh for the good old days when hardly anyone claimed to be "gay"]
I'd hate to try to solve my financial problem by using my finances to make some lawyer rich, or by subjecting my business interests to some activist group's requirements.
I don't know what I'd do. Someone in this thread alluded to: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt 10:16 (KJV) I guess I'd try to find a path where I can best do what this verse says; and preferably without the "help" of a lawyer or some activist group.
Another passage that comes to mind is: Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. Luke 21:14-15 (KJV)
so are you saying the baker did t he wrong thing?
Maybe he wanted to bring this to the Sup Ct.. a lawyer told him he had a case that the Sup Ct could and would likely be interested in taking... and he thought it was worth the trouble bc then the whole US and world would know about the issue of religious freedom?
in which case, a lawyer is a very, very good thing
and it seems only a God-loving attorney would take this kind of case, so... yeh... whatever..
Maybe he wanted to bring this to the Sup Ct.. a lawyer told him he had a case that the Sup Ct could and would likely be interested in taking... and he thought it was worth the trouble bc then the whole US and world would know about the issue of religious freedom?
in which case, a lawyer is a very, very good thing
and it seems only a God-loving attorney would take this kind of case, so... yeh... whatever..