Christian Leaders Threaten Civil Disobedience Pending SCOTUS Gay Marriage Ruling

[maxwel]

If the government says not to teach the bible, or not to preach the gospel, then that's something worth going to jail over.

So teaching about one man / one woman marriage as found in the bible is ok? But not doing what we preach would be hypocritical, no?

Let's not confuse terms.

We should preach the truth, and then do what we preach.

If the government wants to make gay marriage legal everywhere, is it really biblical for Christians to go to jail for participating in illegal protests?
1. I'm to preach homosexuality is wrong, because it is.
2. I'm to personally DO what I preach... thus not be involved in this kind of sin myself.
3. That's all.
4. Where in the Bible does it say I'm supposed to go to jail for protesting against the "sin of the day"?
5. That isn't in the Bible.

Nowhere in the bible does it say we're to protest the "sin of the day" in an illegal way, and get ourselves thrown in jail.

We are to preach the truth, and then do what we preach.
This has NOTHING to do with going to jail because some guy across town wants to marry his boyfriend.
If the guy next door wants to marry his boyfriend, I might not like it, but I'm not going to jail for HIM.
I'm not going to risk jail for protesting HIS stupidity.

If he wants to marry his boyfriend, what I'm going to do is stay OUT of jail, so I can minister to people who actually have sense.


Now, if it becomes illegal to preach... that's a whole different scenario.
Preaching the gospel is our whole reason for being here.
That is an entirely different issue.

 

[crossnote]

Let's not confuse terms.

We should preach the truth, and then do what we preach.

If the government wants to make gay marriage legal everywhere, is it really biblical for Christians to go to jail for participating in illegal protests?
1. I'm to preach homosexuality is wrong, because it is.
2. I'm to personally DO what I preach... thus not be involved in this kind of sin myself.
3. That's all.
4. Where in the Bible does it say I'm supposed to go to jail for protesting against the "sin of the day"?
5. That isn't in the Bible.

Nowhere in the bible does it say we're to protest the "sin of the day" in an illegal way, and get ourselves thrown in jail.

We are to preach the truth, and then do what we preach.
This has NOTHING to do with going to jail because some guy across town wants to marry his boyfriend.
If the guy next door wants to marry his boyfriend, I might not like it, but I'm not going to jail for HIM.
I'm not going to risk jail for protesting HIS stupidity.

If he wants to marry his boyfriend, what I'm going to do is stay OUT of jail, so I can minister to people who actually have sense.


Now, if it becomes illegal to preach... that's a whole different scenario.
Preaching the gospel is our whole reason for being here.
That is an entirely different issue.

This is not a matter of preaching against but rather standing firm on what God has instituted and defined.

Genesis 2:21-24
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

If the pastor sends a couple to the State and their unbiblical definition of marriage then he is a compromiser and a disgrace.

 

[maxwel]

This is not a matter of preaching against but rather standing firm on what God has instituted and defined.

Genesis 2:21-24
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

If the pastor sends a couple to the State and their unbiblical definition of marriage then he is a compromiser and a disgrace.

Crossnote,

Where in the bible does it tell us to commit civil disobedience (break the law) in order to get the lost world around us to keep the proper definition of marriage?

For that matter, where in the bible does it tell you to go to jail over ANY political issues?

Furthermore, to get married in the U.S., don't you need a marriage license from the government already?
If they add some stupid things to the laws, does that mean YOUR marriage is no longer valid?
No.
Your marriage is still the same, and still valid, no matter what kind of wicked nonsense they add to the laws.



Should we speak out against wicked laws?
Of course.
Should we vote against them?
Of course.
Should we strive, by legal means, to maintain good and decent laws?
Of course.

But I'll reiterate, I'm not going to jail because the guy next door wants to marry his boyfriend.
I'm not going to jail for that.

I'm very sorry our nation is going in such wicked directions.
However, we live in a fallen world, and frankly, this is to be expected.

If you want to be a political activist, that's fine.
But our CALLING isn't to political activism, our CALLING is to preach the gospel.

I'm not suggesting we do nothing.
I'm suggesting that, as the world becomes darker, we prioritize our BIBLICAL MANDATES more carefully.

 

[maxwel]

Crossnote,

I'm passionate about these things too, and parts of my last post may have been a bit offensive.
If I offended you, please accept my apology.

This is a serious issue that every Christian SHOULD be upset about.
We're all a bit emotional about it.
We just have different views on how to deal with it.

I wasn't suggesting you don't know the scripture.
I was suggesting that we should think through things VERY carefully, and be VERY careful about what kinds of legal messes we let people drag us into.

 

[dcontroversal]

Look, I am all for what is biblical and against gay marriage in any form or fashion, but lest we forget a couple things need to be brought back to the forefront of our attention......

1. Evil men and seducers will WAX worse and worse....it is not getting nor will it get any better.
2. The love of the truth and of many will wax COLD
3. The embracement of homosexual marriage and lifestyles is the straw that breakes the camel's back and shows a nation void of judgment and spiritual discernent and points to the impending judgment of GOD....

This world, our nation, all nations have a destiny with judgment and wrath.......the truth is simple....we have almost reached the end of our rope, God is rising soon to judge and burn the world with the fire of his indignation.....our best bet now is to win as many as we can to the truth and let the chips fall where the chips are going to fall....we will not be able to stop the march rank and file into sin, oblivion and ruin..it is human destiny under the god of this age...and the end is near!

 

[Grandpa]

what religious freedom,
this is the uk ,when do we have the first amandment. again i hope understand, opinion dont change a law that is already in place.
for example.
being pro abortion or anti gay. dose the law say they can have an abortion. being for or against is a wast of time if the law said they can.
so even, if the individual church say no, they go else ware.

cry out loud if you want, opinions dont change law.

That's exactly correct. Opinions don't change law. We have amendments to our Constitution called the Bill of Rights. The very first one covers the RIGHT to freely practice religion.

 

[crossnote]

Crossnote,

Where in the bible does it tell us to commit civil disobedience (break the law) in order to get the lost world around us to keep the proper definition of marriage?

For that matter, where in the bible does it tell you to go to jail over ANY political issues?

Furthermore, to get married in the U.S., don't you need a marriage license from the government already?
If they add some stupid things to the laws, does that mean YOUR marriage is no longer valid?
No.
Your marriage is still the same, and still valid, no matter what kind of wicked nonsense they add to the laws.



Should we speak out against wicked laws?
Of course.
Should we vote against them?
Of course.
Should we strive, by legal means, to maintain good and decent laws?
Of course.

But I'll reiterate, I'm not going to jail because the guy next door wants to marry his boyfriend.
I'm not going to jail for that.

I'm very sorry our nation is going in such wicked directions.
However, we live in a fallen world, and frankly, this is to be expected.

If you want to be a political activist, that's fine.
But our CALLING isn't to political activism, our CALLING is to preach the gospel.

I'm not suggesting we do nothing.
I'm suggesting that, as the world becomes darker, we prioritize our BIBLICAL MANDATES more carefully.

(Sorry I have other things to do in life besides CC, so if I don't respond right away it's not because I got offended...I didn't).

This is way more than the boys next door getting married..that's straw.

This is about the boys next door having the right to trample on a pastor's conscience (through forcing a marriage so called) which has been formed by God's Word.

This is about the government over reaching the 1st Amendment by "impeding the free exercise of religion," (read it).

This is about a redefinition of an institution that has no semblance to what God established (Gen 2).

Civil disobedience?? as I wrote you already I said "You call it civil disobedience, I call it staying faithful to God's Word. If they penalize us for that, so be it."


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - See more at: First Amendment - U.S. Constitution - FindLaw

 

[crossnote]

It's that close, will your pulpit bow or vow?

‘We will not obey’: Christian leaders threaten civil disobedience if Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage | Fox News

Here is their pledge (it's long) but it will give you a better idea of what is at stake.

Pledge in Solidarity to Defend Marriage | Defend Biblical Marriage

The emphasis is a call to stand firm on biblical principles and defend biblical marriage, not civil disobedience.

 

[royalscot]

That's exactly correct. Opinions don't change law. We have amendments to our Constitution called the Bill of Rights. The very first one covers the RIGHT to freely practice religion.

practice religion, would this be singular ,(to do what god is telling you to do or say.)
when my point is at politics , so now there is a word, troll being used in or on the news papers / the internet forums now.etc is there a fine line between political snakes, and trolls, so both can be used to advance a topic for good or bad in a political or religions , taboos and dogmas points. etc

so even if you stand or sit, (the political), have already won,on this topic , as 36 other states have give consent.

so blind eyes are seeing, to late to do anything about it etc

 

[royalscot]

no, never mind, sheesh.

my sheep, hear my voice.

 

[crossnote]

my sheep, hear my voice.

No wonder I don't understand you.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Crossnote's unyielding refusal to compromise the truth is the integrity that scripture teaches. However, cultural customs certainly may be altered within that context (as is taught in Christian sociology).

If Maxwell will concede that any reprioritization and modification of custom within Western Christendom must uncompromisingly adhere to a correct exegesis of scripture within a correct hermeneutical context, then I believe that mitigates Crossnote's objection.

Which is desirable moving forward for while historically the Christian church has stood as an anvil that many an unchristian has worn out their hammer upon, it has also benefitted from God's wisdom by acting like water when struck.

 

[RickyZ]

So marriage is now defined by the STATE? Isn't that a compromising position to relinquish what God has ordained and defined to redefinition by the STATE?

And that there is the real issue. The state has no business being in the marriage business.

 

[AngelFrog]

It's that close, will your pulpit bow or vow?

‘We will not obey’: Christian leaders threaten civil disobedience if Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage | Fox News

SCOTUS can legalize homosexual unions, but they cannot force churches to perform the ceremonies.

 

[3Scoreand10]

SCOTUS can legalize homosexual unions, but they cannot force churches to perform the ceremonies.

This is true today, but maybe not tomorrow.
Who knows what will happen when a Pastor or church refuses to perform a homosexual marrage?
That church and pastor will be demonized by the news media and the government, and will be taken to court by those rejected.
This is going to get very , very nasty very soon.

 

[crossnote]

SCOTUS can legalize homosexual unions, but they cannot force churches to perform the ceremonies.

I believe this will grant the right of marriage to whosoever and will open lawsuits to any who refuses...churches included.

 

[Nautilus]

I mean Hobby Lobby was granted exemptions on Obamacare for religious reasons and its not like priests on being forced to perform last rites over abortions so this seems like a lot of fearmongering.

 

[crossnote]

I mean Hobby Lobby was granted exemptions on Obamacare for religious reasons and its not like priests on being forced to perform last rites over abortions so this seems like a lot of fearmongering.

Fear mongering? Maybe...maybe not...

Government Forces Churches To Perform Gay Marriage - Eagle Rising

Two Ministers Claim They Could Face 180 Years In Jail For Refusing To Do Gay Weddings

Hundreds of Canadians have faced legal proceedings over same-sex marriage | Christian Concern

etc., etc., etc,

 

[crossnote]

Crossnote's unyielding refusal to compromise the truth is the integrity that scripture teaches. However, cultural customs certainly may be altered within that context (as is taught in Christian sociology).

What principle would Cynthia apply to our possible dilemma?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'm glad you "got it" Crossnote though it sailed right over most everyone else's head.

Crossnote's unyielding refusal to compromise the truth is the integrity that scripture teaches. However, cultural customs certainly may be altered within that context (as is taught in Christian sociology).

If Maxwell will concede that any reprioritization and modification of custom within Western Christendom must uncompromisingly adhere to a correct exegesis of scripture within a correct hermeneutical context, then I believe that mitigates Crossnote's objection.

Which is desirable moving forward for while historically the Christian church has stood as an anvil that many an unchristian has worn out their hammer upon, it has also benefitted from God's wisdom by acting like water when struck.