Christianity is growing strongly in Russia

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,644
673
113
#21
Could you define, "knowledge of real Christ"? Also, Catholicism is not dark. Our Lord Jesus founded the Catholic Church so how can it be dark if He is the Light of the world?
Jesus not founded catholic. If Jesus founded catholic than catholic doctrine must inline with Jesus doctrine.
Jesus doctrines are documented AS a bible. There aren't pray to Mary or other saint in Jesus doctrine.

A Lot of catholic Made history is Lie, for Example, peter is first pope in rome from 32 AD to 67 AD, Bible document in act 28, Paul is the first Christian leader in rome and It was happen in Festus time, according to jews history Festus rule in about AD 58 to AD 60.

If you read act 28 It say when Paul come to rome, he invite jews and ask If they know about christianity, the a aren't sure and they want to hear from Paul they come in a big number and hear til night. If peter there in rome since AD 32 is this story happen? Peter is an apostle for jews, he was in rome for 28 year and not preach to jews?

I believe catholic Made up history

Either you believe bible is liar or catholic is a liar, to say both are true is Logically false.
 
Jul 9, 2017
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#22
I am a Catholic by birth but I am also an open minded guy. But what I am very sure is the real Christian Church started in First Century AD and continues up to this day. It is so dubious to believe that any Bible based groups founded by men are God's real Church.

To be frank, I am starting to believe that the Orthodox Church might be the real Christian Church.

but still a lot of doctrines of Catholic and Orthodox Church are really similar the reason I even posted a photo with contents defending the Catholic faith using the Scriptures.
The Orthodox Church has retained the 7 Sacraments and Apostolic Succession. They do err in the fact that they do not submit to the "keeper of the keys(Peter and his successors) and they believe that one can get remarried even after the first one was sacramentally valid. In other words, they believe in divorce and remarriage.
 
Jul 9, 2017
132
9
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#23
Jackson123 wrote,
If Jesus founded catholic than catholic doctrine must inline with Jesus doctrine.
It does. Let me ask you this, how do you know that yours inclines with Our Lord's doctrine? Could you be mistaken and if you can then how?

Jesus doctrines are documented AS a bible.
They are documented in the Bible but even the Bible states that not all of Our Lord's words are written down(John 21:25).

There aren't pray to Mary or other saint in Jesus doctrine.
Do you believe that intercessory prayer is wrong?

A Lot of catholic Made history is Lie, for Example, peter is first pope in rome from 32 AD to 67 AD, Bible document in act 28, Paul is the first Christian leader in rome and It was happen in Festus time, according to jews history Festus rule in about AD 58 to AD 60.
But there is overwhelming evidence, from the early Church, that attests to the fact that Peter was in Rome and that he died there.

Either you believe bible is liar or catholic is a liar, to say both are true is Logically false
I believe both to be true.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,191
791
113
72
#24
I have some respect for the Orthodox Church. Its a pity that there are very few in the UK that conduct their services in English.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,868
1,979
113
#25
The Orthodox Church has retained the 7 Sacraments and Apostolic Succession. They do err in the fact that they do not submit to the "keeper of the keys(Peter and his successors) and they believe that one can get remarried even after the first one was sacramentally valid. In other words, they believe in divorce and remarriage.
So you are saying the Orthodox Church is honest in admitting they accept divorced/remarried people, but the Catholic Church has taken the high moral ground and doesn't allow it?

I had a friend back in the 80's and 90's who was a rabid Catholic, born and raised. We'll call her Philomena, a good Catholic saint's name, since that was her name! She told me a huge number of her family were priests and nuns. She was married with 5 children. Her husband was an alcoholic and an adulterer. He slept with my neighbour, who was not exactly pretty. (Philomena was pretty, I'll give her that!)

So, as things always go, he became abusive - mentally, physically and sexually. She prayed for him to "get saved." She knew the evangelical lingo, but she actual prayed for him to convert to Catholicism, doing the rosary constantly. He didn't get saved, went into rehab, was a nice guy for a week, back to drinking.

Finally, in desperation, she went to her priest. She wanted to remain Catholic, and she knew divorce would make her ineligible to take the Eucharist. So, the first thing the priest said to her was, "No problem, we'll annul the marriage." Say what? So, what does that make her legitimate 5 children? Illegitimate? I never got an answer on that.

So she dumped her husband. In the meanwhile she met a wonderful man, who had been studying for the priesthood. He asked her to marry him, and his mom told her not to do it. She accepted and within a few weeks, sold her home to move to where he lived. He asked her to loan him $10,000. She did and never saw him or the money again.

Then, she was instructed by her fellow nurses to do disgusting sexual things with multiple men. Which she did. She said it was not an issue, because she could go to confession before mass, and she would be wiped clean, so she could do it again the next weekend. I told her at that point, I never wanted to see or hear from her again. (Oh yes, I preached at her extensively, read her the relevant Bible passages, but she liked Mother Church and its deceit better!)

PS. I know not all Catholics are this immoral. But, the system of the Catholic Church is deceitful, it preys upon people and it is evil.

And just to impress you, my sister was at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome this morning, where she heard mass by the Pope. She also saw where "St. Peter" was buried. So, a long letter to her how Peter was never the leader of the church in Rome, it was Paul, and no one knows where any of the disciples or church fathers were buried. Which is as it should be - because then people don't go worshipping artifacts and idols. Instead they worship Jesus Christ, the living God!
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
537
147
43
32
Manila
#26
they believe that one can get remarried even after the first one was sacramentally valid. In other words, they believe in divorce and remarriage.
Who said divorce is wrong ha?

Matthew 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

See you can divorce as long as the reason is sexual immorality.

I believe that not only Peter is the Christian leader of the Church. Remember early Christians were spread around the world because Jesus had said to preach his Word all over the world.

So there are many Christian leaders aside from Peter.

Jesus is overall leader of the Church because the head of the Church is other than Him - Colossians 1:18.

I think you should debate with the Orthodox people whether the Catholic Church is the apostate church that was once belonged to the Christian Church that is founded by an anti Christ whom St. John had once forewarned in his letters in the New Testament.

With the dark history of the Catholic Church in other countries and sex abuse scandals, I am starting to believe it.

Remember what Jesus said here:

Matthew Chapter Seven:

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
 
Sep 1, 2018
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#27
It is hard to believe that Russia is open to Christianity and freedom of religion, especially when one learns about how Jehovah's Witnesses continue to be persecuted in that country:

**link removed**
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,832
2,483
113
#28
Could you define, "knowledge of real Christ"? Also, Catholicism is not dark. Our Lord Jesus founded the Catholic Church so how can it be dark if He is the Light of the world?
catholicism is the biggest false christian cult in the world...
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,868
1,979
113
#29
It is hard to believe that Russia is open to Christianity and freedom of religion, especially when one learns about how Jehovah's Witnesses continue to be persecuted in that country:
https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by...1-ec4c7f5900f8&insight[search_result_index]=4
JW's aren't Christians. They reject the deity of Christ, which is clearly spoken of in the Bible. They have even changed the words in John 1:1 (or mistranslated them!) to say something the Greek clearly does not say. They also reject the Trinity, which is the very basis of our faith.

Although JWs are a cult, I do agree they should not be persecuted. But, any link from the JW organization is suspect to me. (I do know that even Baptists are persecuted in Russian, and many other real Christian denominations. Which is why this OP is wrong.)

While there is nothing really wrong with the Orthodox Church, the fact that no one is saved outside the Orthodox/ Catholic Church is a very wrong doctrine. My grandparents were Orthodox, but never insisted it was the Orthodox Church or you are going to hell. Which is such a blessing for me!
 
Jul 9, 2017
132
9
18
#30
So you are saying the Orthodox Church is honest in admitting they accept divorced/remarried people, but the Catholic Church has taken the high moral ground and doesn't allow it?

I had a friend back in the 80's and 90's who was a rabid Catholic, born and raised. We'll call her Philomena, a good Catholic saint's name, since that was her name! She told me a huge number of her family were priests and nuns. She was married with 5 children. Her husband was an alcoholic and an adulterer. He slept with my neighbour, who was not exactly pretty. (Philomena was pretty, I'll give her that!)

So, as things always go, he became abusive - mentally, physically and sexually. She prayed for him to "get saved." She knew the evangelical lingo, but she actual prayed for him to convert to Catholicism, doing the rosary constantly. He didn't get saved, went into rehab, was a nice guy for a week, back to drinking.

Finally, in desperation, she went to her priest. She wanted to remain Catholic, and she knew divorce would make her ineligible to take the Eucharist. So, the first thing the priest said to her was, "No problem, we'll annul the marriage." Say what? So, what does that make her legitimate 5 children? Illegitimate? I never got an answer on that.

So she dumped her husband. In the meanwhile she met a wonderful man, who had been studying for the priesthood. He asked her to marry him, and his mom told her not to do it. She accepted and within a few weeks, sold her home to move to where he lived. He asked her to loan him $10,000. She did and never saw him or the money again.

Then, she was instructed by her fellow nurses to do disgusting sexual things with multiple men. Which she did. She said it was not an issue, because she could go to confession before mass, and she would be wiped clean, so she could do it again the next weekend. I told her at that point, I never wanted to see or hear from her again. (Oh yes, I preached at her extensively, read her the relevant Bible passages, but she liked Mother Church and its deceit better!)

PS. I know not all Catholics are this immoral. But, the system of the Catholic Church is deceitful, it preys upon people and it is evil.

And just to impress you, my sister was at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome this morning, where she heard mass by the Pope. She also saw where "St. Peter" was buried. So, a long letter to her how Peter was never the leader of the church in Rome, it was Paul, and no one knows where any of the disciples or church fathers were buried. Which is as it should be - because then people don't go worshipping artifacts and idols. Instead they worship Jesus Christ, the living God!
1. If a marriage was not entered into, sacramentally, then that is an invalid marriage. If it was entered into, sacramentally, then not even the Pope can break the sacred bond of Marriage.
2. "Philomena" got the wrong advice from the priest. If one got a divorce then she could still receive Communion and her children would not be considered illegitimate.
3. The Church is not deceitful but some of her members do not always live up to the teachings of the Church. Also, not to sound crass, but your story sounds kind of fishy.
4. I have to object to say that Peter was never the leader of the Church of Rome and I also have to disagree with you concerning, what you said, about us not knowing where various Church Fathers are buried.
5. We do not worship idols but, like you, worship the Living God, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
 
Jul 9, 2017
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#31
Who said divorce is wrong ha?

Matthew 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

See you can divorce as long as the reason is sexual immorality.

I believe that not only Peter is the Christian leader of the Church. Remember early Christians were spread around the world because Jesus had said to preach his Word all over the world.

So there are many Christian leaders aside from Peter.

Jesus is overall leader of the Church because the head of the Church is other than Him - Colossians 1:18.

I think you should debate with the Orthodox people whether the Catholic Church is the apostate church that was once belonged to the Christian Church that is founded by an anti Christ whom St. John had once forewarned in his letters in the New Testament.

With the dark history of the Catholic Church in other countries and sex abuse scandals, I am starting to believe it.

Remember what Jesus said here:

Matthew Chapter Seven:

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
1. Yes, we do know them by their fruits but one cannot say that all Catholics are bad just as we cannot say that all Protestants are bad.
2. It is true that there were Christian leaders, in the early Church but they also beleived that Rome held special status because that is where St. Peter suffered martyrdom and he was chosen, by Our Lord, as keeper of the keys. There is much significance, to the fact, that Our Lord gave Peter the keys of authority.
3. I do agree that Our Lord is the Head of the Church.
 
Jul 9, 2017
132
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#33
JW's aren't Christians. They reject the deity of Christ, which is clearly spoken of in the Bible. They have even changed the words in John 1:1 (or mistranslated them!) to say something the Greek clearly does not say. They also reject the Trinity, which is the very basis of our faith.

Although JWs are a cult, I do agree they should not be persecuted. But, any link from the JW organization is suspect to me. (I do know that even Baptists are persecuted in Russian, and many other real Christian denominations. Which is why this OP is wrong.)

While there is nothing really wrong with the Orthodox Church, the fact that no one is saved outside the Orthodox/ Catholic Church is a very wrong doctrine. My grandparents were Orthodox, but never insisted it was the Orthodox Church or you are going to hell. Which is such a blessing for me!
1. I also believe that the JWs are not Christian and they have many false doctrines.
2. Since Our Lord founded the Catholic Church and since He established the Sacraments as a means of grace then it only follows that one should be a member of the Catholic Church in order to receive the grace that Our Lord offers, to us, through the Sacraments.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,832
2,483
113
#34
1. I also believe that the JWs are not Christian and they have many false doctrines.
2. Since Our Lord founded the Catholic Church and since He established the Sacraments as a means of grace then it only follows that one should be a member of the Catholic Church in order to receive the grace that Our Lord offers, to us, through the Sacraments.
No religious works like reciving ""sacraments"" is going to save anyone.. People who are relying on religous works for salvation, Do not have salvation.. those who are caught up in the false religion of the roman catholism do not have salvation..

Salvation only comes by Believing Jesus and trusting 100% in the Atonement He secured for our salvation on the cross..
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,868
1,979
113
#35
1. I also believe that the JWs are not Christian and they have many false doctrines.
2. Since Our Lord founded the Catholic Church and since He established the Sacraments as a means of grace then it only follows that one should be a member of the Catholic Church in order to receive the grace that Our Lord offers, to us, through the Sacraments.
So, please post the verse in the Bible, that salvation is through the sacraments. Here is what I found:

0 Bible results for “Sacrament .” HCSB

0 Bible results for “Sacrament .” KJV

0 Bible results for “Sacrament .” NET

0 Bible results for “Sacrament .” NIV

0 Bible results for “Sacrament .” NAB (Catholic Bible)

Oh, Douey-Rheim 1899 does have it wrong. "This is a great sacrament; but I speak in Christ and in the church." Eph. 5:22

Plus, this is Paul talking, nothing to do with "Jesus founding" some sacraments. Sad!

Here is the Greek, which has no mention of the word sacrament, let alone sacred, or holy or anything even close.

"τὸ μυστήριον τοῦτο μέγα ἐστίν, ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω εἰς Χριστὸν καὶ εἰς τὴν ἐκκλησίαν." Eph. 5:22 SBL
This mystery is great, but I speak of (in, technically) Christ and of the church. My translation.


Read all of Ephesians, and you will find this:

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!" Eph. 2:4-5

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast". Eph. 2:8-9 NET

I always wondered where this error came from about sacraments saving you, and now I know. A wrong translation of the Bible. Done on purpose? I have no idea. But, the RCC had been around some 1500 years at this point, in 1899, so probably done to make the sad members following a corrupt and evil system of salvation by works, keep following the lies not just of the pope, but even a wrongly translated Bible. How awful!
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,469
553
113
#36
Many don't know this, but it seems that in these days when deceive is growing the West world, same time christianity in growing in Russia.

Russian Faith
Well, the same christianity works together with the gouverment and is against all other christians!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,644
673
113
#37
Jackson123 wrote,


It does. Let me ask you this, how do you know that yours inclines with Our Lord's doctrine? Could you be mistaken and if you can then how?



They are documented in the Bible but even the Bible states that not all of Our Lord's words are written down(John 21:25).



Do you believe that intercessory prayer is wrong?



But there is overwhelming evidence, from the early Church, that attests to the fact that Peter was in Rome and that he died there.



I believe both to be true.
1. I know our Lord doctrine must inline with the Bible, not bow to the statue.

2. Intercessory prayer is if I as a physically living person asking to other physically living Christian to pray, not to the physically death, how do you know Mary spirit able to hear billion catholic who pray to her.

When I ask my Christian brother to pray for me, I am not bow to that person.

Act 10

25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

Peter refused when Cornelius bow to him, catholic bow to Peter statue, it mean catholic not obey Peter it against Peter teaching. How catholic claim Peter as their Pope? Must be different Peter.

Real Peter not teach to bow before man, catholic Peter teach bow to a man.

Catholic not only asking the death to pray for them, catholic also pray to them.

Asking one to pray:

Hi john, please pray for me

Pray to

Mary, bless me, be my protector etc. this what catholic do, their believe Mary ghost like God, Omni present, able to hear and remember billion catholic who pray to her.

3. You believe Bible and catholic teaching are true?

How you believe the teaching to bow to the statue is true and Peter teaching not bow to a man is true in the same time. Be reasonable brother. If you believe Peter teaching than you must not believe catholic teaching ( bow to statue)

http://www.the-bible-antichrist.com/images/pope-john-paul-mary.jpg
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,396
1,014
113
#39
One should be careful what is called Christianity today.
I question if God really accepts much of what is called Christianity today.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,879
113
#40
I am a Catholic by birth but I am also an open minded guy. But what I am very sure is the real Christian Church started in First Century AD and continues up to this day. It is so dubious to believe that any Bible based groups founded by men are God's real Church.

To be frank, I am starting to believe that the Orthodox Church might be the real Christian Church.

but still a lot of doctrines of Catholic and Orthodox Church are really similar the reason I even posted a photo with contents defending the Catholic faith using the Scriptures.
I think that, because of growing up in the Catholic Church, you have an unbiblical definition of the word "church."

If you go to the bible to get a proper understanding of that word, I think your whole paradigm on this issue will change.

Take Care.
Max

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