CIA torture report paints picture of agency out of control

[Thailand_Paul]

Hate much? LOL!

Actually no. I don't hate anyone (except satan) I am just fed up with violent bullying tactics used by some countries and their supporters to justify mass killing, torture, maiming and other atrocities all the while saying "In God we trust".
I do apologize for being belligerent in the post you're referring to...quite hypocritical I know....blood was boiling, nearly at "throw my laptop against the wall" level, no excuse and I am sincere with my apology to all forum users.

 

[skipp]

I find it quote ironic that people on this thread, professed Christians, talk about defending the country by violent means, yet the same staunch violent defenders do little more than condemn it as a Sodom and Gomorrah, full of Lefty sinners, that needs destroyed violently. Yet the same Lefties and Libs you all seem to hate, the ones you equate morally with the Gamorran sodomites, shout ' dont kill, dont torture, dont hate'.

Generalizations, are of course, factionalist and silly, but perhaps in order to get you to see the nature of conflict, it's best to speak in your vernacular and point it out.

I hate all of this left/right talk myself. Americans insist on shoving secular partisan politics into every single issue. People take a side and then mindlessly cheerlead every aspect of that side without thinking it through carefully and whether it really aligns with the Bible or not. And that goes for both sides of the aisle. I could care less about "the left" or "the right" or whatever other secular political box people want to put themselves in. I just care about about what the Word of God says and because of that I can't support the use of torture.

 

[kaylagrl]

Focus on the bold :/ it's more truthful
So, Israel, backed by the coalition of collateral murder are okay attacking / invading and generally living by the sword. Then, if ONE Jew dies by the sword it's an atrocity and the people of Israel are victims, but when large numbers of non-combatants / innocent civilians are killed by drones and other strikes by the above mentioned coalition they aren't even worthy of the dignity of being named as "victim", Instead they are labeled an inanimate object "collateral damage"
Why can't the coalition of the insane call them what they are? (Innocent victims)...oh that's right, that would make those responsible war criminals / murderers.
It must be nice to be able to hide behind a barrier of words instead of hiding behind the crumbling walls of a mud hut ...................
Next someone will tell us "Not all Jews want war with the Arabs or to expand their territory by force"...and I will agree, just as NOT ALL Muslims are blood thirsty Jihadists......

No not all Muslims are blood thirsty Jihadists.But they are against Gods chosen,the Jews.


Quran...O ye People of the Book!* believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out.


For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah's Way


O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.


. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! Jews/Christians


And well ye knew those amongst you [Children of Israel] who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."


Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute [Jizya] readily, being brought low.


Leave the Bible in or out of it the Jews are entitled to their land.Read history.Israel gave land for peace with Egypt they'd do t he same with any country.So why is there still a problem?

 

[Hizikyah]

America is just stupid... We are morons... Plain and simple...
And we don't care about human life.

Hit with an eye drop...

saturated their retina so they can't see the psy-op...

Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened. - Zechariah 11:17 (KJV)

 

[kaylagrl]

I hate all of this left/right talk myself. Americans insist on shoving secular partisan politics into every single issue. People take a side and then mindlessly cheerlead every aspect of that side without thinking it through carefully and whether it really aligns with the Bible or not. And that goes for both sides of the aisle. I could care less about "the left" or "the right" or whatever other secular political box people want to put themselves in. I just care about about what the Word of God says and because of that I can't support the use of torture.

So....what would you say to King David?

 

[Thailand_Paul]

.They cant even get along with their OWN people!

Haha, a bit like Americans hating one another over politics....don't deny it, the evidence here with name calling and vitriolic spraying between Republicans and Democrats is proof enough....maybe the leaders of the "kill all opposed to us" brigade should clean up their own back yard first. Just sayin..........

 

[kaylagrl]

Haha, a bit like Americans hating one another over politics....don't deny it, the evidence here with name calling and vitriolic spraying between Republicans and Democrats is proof enough....maybe the leaders of the "kill all opposed to us" brigade should clean up their own back yard first. Just sayin..........

We dont have warring tribes that are sawing children in half because they dont exactly agree with our view of the Muslim religion. Thats what I mean by not getting along with their own people! They murder each other.And its not kill all opposed to us,stay in your own flippin country and live in peace and we will do the same.No body cares if you want to pray to a tree or a cow.have whatever govt you want,make a parrot president of your country,WE DONT CARE! Just live in peace and leave us to do the same. Terrorize the world expect to get it back.Hitler found that out.

 

[Thailand_Paul]

Gods chosen,the Jews.

Old covenant, new covenant ALL are acceptable to our Lord if we repent of our sins and proclaim Jesus as God's son, the living God. Killing people simply because they follow the Quoran denies them the chance to repent.

Leave the Bible in or out of it the Jews are entitled to their land. Read history.Israel gave land for peace with Egypt they'd do t he same with any country.So why is there still a problem?

Israel GAVE land for peace. Now they want it back. So if I give something to someone, then change my mind, it's okay to take it back by any means and try to take more into the bargain? Cool, I willingly paid tax to my government, I want it back plus interest....maybe I'll go n buy a few second hand MIGs and do a strafing run on the ATO...lol

as for "entitled to their land"...are you willing to give up your piece of land to the original owners (Native Americans) if they want it back? After all they are just as entitled if not more so as they had their land forcibly removed from them as did the indigenous Australians and many other colonized nations.....can't say yes to one and no to another. That would be hypocrisy and somewhat unfair...........

 

[Thailand_Paul]

We dont have warring tribes that are sawing children in half because they dont exactly agree with our view of the Muslim religion. Thats what I mean by not getting along with their own people! They murder each other.

ummmmm below is interesting ain't it ?
[h=3]Homicide[edit][/h]The US homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1992 from a rate per 100,000 persons of 9.8 to 4.8 in 2010, is still among the highest in the industrialized world. There were 14,748 homicides in the United States in 2010, including non-negligent manslaughter.[SUP][41][/SUP] (666,160 murders from 1960 to 1996).[SUP][42][/SUP] In 2004, there were 5.5 homicides for every 100,000 persons, roughly three times as high as Canada (1.9) and six times as high as Germany (0.9).[SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP] A closer look at The National Archive of Criminal Justice Data indicates that per-capita homicide rates over the last 30 plus years on average, of major cities, New Orleans' average annual per capita homicide rate of 52 murders per 100,000 people overall (1980–2012) is the highest of U.S. cities with average annual homicide totals that were among the top 10 highest during the same period.

regarding your comments about "praying to trees, cows, parrot presidents etc...were they directed at me or th Islamic crowd?
Just curious before I reply.

 

[kaylagrl]

Old covenant, new covenant ALL are acceptable to our Lord if we repent of our sins and proclaim Jesus as God's son, the living God. Killing people simply because they follow the Quoran denies them the chance to repent.


Israel GAVE land for peace. Now they want it back. So if I give something to someone, then change my mind, it's okay to take it back by any means and try to take more into the bargain? Cool, I willingly paid tax to my government, I want it back plus interest....maybe I'll go n buy a few second hand MIGs and do a strafing run on the ATO...lol

as for "entitled to their land"...are you willing to give up your piece of land to the original owners (Native Americans) if they want it back? After all they are just as entitled if not more so as they had their land forcibly removed from them as did the indigenous Australians and many other colonized nations.....can't say yes to one and no to another. That would be hypocrisy and somewhat unfair...........

Yes IF we repent!! No Im not saying kill because they believe in the Koran Im saying their religion says kill the Jews and God will defend his chosen people. He will not allow the Muslims to destroy Israel.

War was fought,Israel was given the land they rest on.Of all land in the middle east they stand on 1% of it.Id say thats pretty giving.As far as Indians having their land back they have been given reparations by the US but hey if they demanded it back they have that right.Wrong was done to the Indians and the govt should pay for that.Their land was taken,Isreal fought and won a war the same as the Yanks did against the Brits.But the fact is no one wanted that desolate,desert land until it was given to Israel by the Brits. Check out pics of an overgrown mosque in the 30s or so.Besides Palestinian is a made up political term in the first place so they are certainly not entitled for land they lost through war.

 

[kaylagrl]

ummmmm below is interesting ain't it ?
Homicide[edit]

The US homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1992 from a rate per 100,000 persons of 9.8 to 4.8 in 2010, is still among the highest in the industrialized world. There were 14,748 homicides in the United States in 2010, including non-negligent manslaughter.[SUP][41][/SUP] (666,160 murders from 1960 to 1996).[SUP][42][/SUP] In 2004, there were 5.5 homicides for every 100,000 persons, roughly three times as high as Canada (1.9) and six times as high as Germany (0.9).[SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP] A closer look at The National Archive of Criminal Justice Data indicates that per-capita homicide rates over the last 30 plus years on average, of major cities, New Orleans' average annual per capita homicide rate of 52 murders per 100,000 people overall (1980–2012) is the highest of U.S. cities with average annual homicide totals that were among the top 10 highest during the same period.

regarding your comments about "praying to trees, cows, parrot presidents etc...were they directed at me or th Islamic crowd?
Just curious before I reply.

Directed at the Islamic people.And you're comparing apples to oranges.Every country on earth has murders for various reasons.I am talking about tribes within the Muslim religion that kill each other because they dont have the exact same interpretation of the Koran and Muslim faith.Every country has the evil of murder.You missed the point.

 

[Thailand_Paul]

No I didn't miss the point. Throughout history, some of the worst offenders for mass murder due to religious reasons / difference have been us (Christians) yes ancient history, but fact nonetheless. The fact that the Jihadist are committing barbaric acts now in an"enlightened" age, is sickening. I'll never argue with anyone on that point.
However it is the right wing "killem all and be damned with the consequences" attitude I will always oppose.
I've been called a tree hugging, greenie, left wing, commie, huggie,care bear, love everyone cuddly wuddly et all for that stance and I have one answer to it.
I try to live by the example of the greatest "left wing", love everyone INCLUDING your enemies leader of ALL Eternity.
Our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
If the right wing "super patriots" have a problem with those opposed to the torture, maiming and killing of innocent men women and children, they also have a problem with what He taught us.
It follows naturally that if they reject His teaching, they are rejecting Him.
People will argue until they are blue in the face, that rejection of Jesus' teaching to love all does not equate to rejecting Him.
By hating those that hate us, we are disobeying His command and therefore rejecting it. Again rejection=rejection.

 

[kaylagrl]

No I didn't miss the point. Throughout history, some of the worst offenders for mass murder due to religious reasons / difference have been us (Christians) yes ancient history, but fact nonetheless. The fact that the Jihadist are committing barbaric acts now in an"enlightened" age, is sickening. I'll never argue with anyone on that point.
However it is the right wing "killem all and be damned with the consequences" attitude I will always oppose.
I've been called a tree hugging, greenie, left wing, commie, huggie,care bear, love everyone cuddly wuddly et all for that stance and I have one answer to it.
I try to live by the example of the greatest "left wing", love everyone INCLUDING your enemies leader of ALL Eternity.
Our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
If the right wing "super patriots" have a problem with those opposed to the torture, maiming and killing of innocent men women and children, they also have a problem with what He taught us.
It follows naturally that if they reject His teaching, they are rejecting Him.
People will argue until they are blue in the face, that rejection of Jesus' teaching to love all does not equate to rejecting Him.
By hating those that hate us, we are disobeying His command and therefore rejecting it. Again rejection=rejection.

So you think Christ would be left wing in so far as he would say just hug it all out? Did God not say essentially "go in and wipe them out and dont even let the livestock live?" It seems people think God and Jesus are not in tune with each other.Like Jesus didnt believe an eye for an eye. Its like Jesus is a down with us hommie who would just hug everyone and overlook sin.And that old judgemental war God of the OT well thats done with.Jesus is our guy.He would even agree with homosexuality.He didnt say anything against it! Its the OT dude that rains on our parade.Ask King David if we should just hug it out,what do you think he would say?

Now I have compassion I really do.I hate to see people killed.I wish we all wanted peace and the lion would lay with the lamb but its not gonna happen this side of heaven.If these people would live in peace the world would live at peace with them.I dont think we should hate Muslims but we hate the false religion as any other.And for the record I married a Democrat. Im a Republican. Now granted his views have come closer to mine but we still dont see everything the same.So I dont hate you for being from the left.But when we get into far left I cant how that can line up with the Bible.Lets not become enemies as we discuss ok? We may agree on other things.



BTW Im not American

 

[Utah]

Actually no. I don't hate anyone (except satan) I am just fed up with violent bullying tactics used by some countries and their supporters to justify mass killing, torture, maiming and other atrocities all the while saying "In God we trust".
I do apologize for being belligerent in the post you're referring to...quite hypocritical I know....blood was boiling, nearly at "throw my laptop against the wall" level, no excuse and I am sincere with my apology to all forum users.

It's all good, Paul. I respect your passion; I have the same passion myself. You and I simply disagree on this. Know that I yearn and pray for absolute peace, but until it happens, I have no problem making our enemies uncomfortable in order to save lives. I look forward to sharing with you, learning from you and praying for one another. God bless, my friend!

 

[kennethcadwell]

You allege that those of us who understand why the military use various measures, such as torture, in an attempt to gain information to save lives, as "taking part in that sin" and "defending the works of satan".

Clearly you are still blind to your blatant hypocrisy as you are defending hateful terrorists who seek to withhold relevant information that could save lives.

So through your defense of hateful terrorists to be better able to withhold important information that can save the lives of those they seek to destroy, "you take part in their sin" and you're "defending the works of satan", to use your own words. I hope this will again highlight your hypocrisy enough to make you realize your error.

Do you realize now that you "take part in the sin" of these hateful terrorists who seek to kill others?
Do you realize now that you are "defending the works of satan"?

I am not defending anybody, and you can see that if you actually read what I posted instead of going on a false campaign to say things that I did not say. Calling me blind and a hypocrite.

1st) I said they can imprison and interrogate them for information all they want.

2nd) I never said I support their actions, for I have openly stated that terrorist acts are extremely wrong.

3rd) Torture is methods are done out of hatred, twist it as you may but it is.

4th) There is no love and mercy toward a person, if you are torturing them.

5th) If you defend another's sinful actions, you are supporting them, hince you take part in that sin by allowing it to be administered instead of speaking against it.

6th) Just because some of us do not support the torture methods, does not mean we support the terrorist actions.

7th) Lord Jesus said we are to show love and mercy not only to each others, but to those we would call enemies to.

 

[Utah]

I am not defending anybody, and you can see that if you actually read what I posted instead of going on a false campaign to say things that I did not say. Calling me blind and a hypocrite.

1st) I said they can imprison and interrogate them for information all they want.

2nd) I never said I support their actions, for I have openly stated that terrorist acts are extremely wrong.

3rd) Torture is methods are done out of hatred, twist it as you may but it is.

4th) There is no love and mercy toward a person, if you are torturing them.

5th) If you defend another's sinful actions, you are supporting them, hince you take part in that sin by allowing it to be administered instead of speaking against it.

6th) Just because some of us do not support the torture methods, does not mean we support the terrorist actions.

7th) Lord Jesus said we are to show love and mercy not only to each others, but to those we would call enemies to.

Do you actively engage in discussions with our enemies telling them you love them and you want them to stop their brutality against innocent people? If so, what chat site? I'd like to join in on the conversation.

Sleep deprivation, the a.c. being on 62 and being made to stand up for long periods of time is not torture. I was subjected to worse inconveniences when I served in the military. I was also hazed worse when I joined my fraternity in college.

Again, I pray for our enemies' salvation and that's the greatest gift of love we can give them.

Its funny how most liberals who defend the treatment of our enemies actively support infanticide. I guess snuffing out the life of a human being in the womb is not torture, its a choice! Not saying you personally, Ken, I'm speaking generally and you know I'm correct on that summation.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I never disagreed with you nor am I with your statement here.

I disagreed with David's false assertion that the GOP is solely to blame. They aren't. In fact, the Democrats held top spots in all of the committees associated with approving what occurred (the oval office excepted).

Also, the Democrat controlled Senate that produced this report, has published an unbalanced report designed from its inception to use as political weapon against their political opponents.

"The staff started with a conclusion and then cherry picked their way through six million pages, ignoring some data and highlighting others, to make their case — the very definition of politicization."

Furthermore, guilty or not, it makes sense to at least look at the CIA response:

CIA program 'architect' slams torture report - CNN.com

CIASavedLives

I appreciate dispassionate discourse on the merits of hisotircal political policy as much as the next intellectual, but we're talking about torture here AgeOfKnowledge. Whether it got results or not is a bit of a secondary issue to the message a self-appointed Big Brother sends when he rebrands 'mild' torture as ''advanced interrogation'' and covers up more severe instances.

 

[Thailand_Paul]

It's all good, Paul. I respect your passion; I have the same passion myself. You and I simply disagree on this. Know that I yearn and pray for absolute peace, but until it happens, I have no problem making our enemies uncomfortable in order to save lives. I look forward to sharing with you, learning from you and praying for one another. God bless, my friend!

Look forward to sharing and discussing with you also Utah. Blessings in His holy name.

 

[Thailand_Paul]

So I dont hate you for being from the left.But when we get into far left I cant how that can line up with the Bible.Lets not become enemies as we discuss ok? We may agree on other things.

I'm actually Apolitical. I have a healthy disrespect for all policies that are designed to give more power to an elite few and especially policies / beliefs that use corrupted scriptural doctrine to "justify" them.
Definitely not willing or interested in becoming your enemy, just pointing out your misconceptions

 

[kennethcadwell]

Do you actively engage in discussions with our enemies telling them you love them and you want them to stop their brutality against innocent people? If so, what chat site? I'd like to join in on the conversation.

Sleep deprivation, the a.c. being on 62 and being made to stand up for long periods of time is not torture. I was subjected to worse inconveniences when I served in the military. I was also hazed worse when I joined my fraternity in college.

Again, I pray for our enemies' salvation and that's the greatest gift of love we can give them.

Its funny how most liberals who defend the treatment of our enemies actively support infanticide. I guess snuffing out the life of a human being in the womb is not torture, its a choice! Not saying you personally, Ken, I'm speaking generally and you know I'm correct on that summation.

And once again you call me a liberal.
I am posting from a biblical point of view, not a liberal. Please stop using man made analogies to describe me.
I do not support abortion, so that is another bad attempt to label all people a certain way. I guess you need to get out more and actually talk to people then listening to the bias new sources, and bias politicians that spread lies to win support.

I have met plenty of republicans and democrats alike that support abortion, and plenty of both parties that don't........
The classification of everybody in a group as being the same is a bad habit to get into, and is bearing false witness on a lot of people.