Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

[ZNP]

I agree, which is why we need to identify why many Americans (almost all Republicans) believe that.

It turns out that the reason they believe it isn't because it's been proven, but instead it's because Republican leaders have been going around the country telling everyone that our elections are fraudulent.

So instead of conducting more and more and more audits and investigations, we need to find a way to get Republican leaders to stop telling the pubic that our elections are untrustworthy.


Sure, and those audits were done and the results were unequivocal. The election was legit and the results valid. If some people won't accept those results, then why did they want the audits in the first place? Were they only going to accept the results if they were what they already believed?


Again, investigations and audits have been done, many, many, many times.


How exactly would President Biden, a Democrat, convince MAGA voters that the election was valid? If they won't even accept the results of investigations paid for by the Trump campaign or audits conducted by Republicans and Trump-picked firms, what makes you think they'll see anything Biden says as reason to change their minds?


That would be odd, since it was Fox News that not only had to pay over 3/4ths of a billion dollars to Dominion for lying about them, but also was shown (via discovery) that they deliberately lie to their audience.

If this had been done properly instead of 40% believing there was election fraud as was the case in 2020 it would be down to 4% today. You have no credibility to claim that this has been done if the numbers believing there is election fraud have risen from 40% to 70%. It doesn't matter if they are righ or wrong, Biden has completely failed to restore trust.

 

[JayBird]

If this had been done properly instead of 40% believing there was election fraud as was the case in 2020 it would be down to 4% today.

Sorry, I don't know what you're referring to with "if this had been done properly"? What is "this"?

You have no credibility to claim that this has been done if the numbers believing there is election fraud have risen from 40% to 70%. It doesn't matter if they are righ or wrong, Biden has completely failed to restore trust.

First, I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. The polling I've seen shows that only about 30% of Americans think the 2020 election outcome was due to fraud, with a clear majority saying the results were fair and square.

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_US_062023/

So if you have polling to support the numbers you posted, please post it.

Finally, I have to wonder why you're not focused on getting Republicans (especially Trump) to stop going around the country telling Americans that our elections are fraudulent. That seems to me to be the biggest problem.

 

[cv5]

My understanding is that that courts have ruled they don't have standing, that election fraud is supposed to be the jurisdiction of the State government and not the courts. I also understand that the courts have never issued a ruling on the affidavits.

Corrupt governors and SoS put the brakes on legit investigations.

 

[JayBird]

Corrupt governors and SoS put the brakes on legit investigations.

Where? Who?

 

[ZNP]

Sorry, I don't know what you're referring to with "if this had been done properly"? What is "this"?


First, I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from. The polling I've seen shows that only about 30% of Americans think the 2020 election outcome was due to fraud, with a clear majority saying the results were fair and square.

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_US_062023/

So if you have polling to support the numbers you posted, please post it.

Finally, I have to wonder why you're not focused on getting Republicans (especially Trump) to stop going around the country telling Americans that our elections are fraudulent. That seems to me to be the biggest problem.

That poll asks the wrong question

I am not saying that 70% think the outcome was changed due to fraud, that is a different question. That should not be the requirement, that we don't deal with fraud until it changes the outcome of elections. It depends on who does the poll and the question asked. The question I am interested in is "do you believe there is fraud that takes place in the elections?"

IF you look at polls even by CNN and those who had Hillary up by 12 points over Trump they admit that more than 70% of Republicans believe this, and more than 50% of voters believe this. I saw polls on Bannon's warroom pandemic a few months back. I am not interested in digging them up again, nor am I interested in debates over which polls to listen to. Even if you take a CNN poll it shows that there is more than enough justification to do a complete audit of the process.

For some reason you don't seem to understand that and keep changing the question to questioning the outcome in 2020. That is a stupid question, why would any reasonable person say yes? The honest question is whether or not there is sufficient reason to do an audit?

If you ask me whether or not OJ did it why would I disagree with the outcome of the trial? I didn't sit through all the evidence. We have not had the trial, we have not had the audit. All I see is people going to extreme lengths to explain why we don't need to do an audit. That is idiotic in my opinion. I was a teacher and our school was audited by the City every three years. Fortune 500 companies do audits regularly. It is not my job as a citizen to prove that the election was fraudulent, rather it is the governments job to prove that it isn't.

Here is the right question

Has the US government proven to you that the elections are not fraudulent?

If you ask that question the Democrats cannot say yes because they have been filing lawsuits over alleged election fraud.

 

[JayBird]

That poll asks the wrong question

I am not saying that 70% think the outcome was changed due to fraud, that is a different question. That should not be the requirement, that we don't deal with fraud until it changes the outcome of elections. It depends on who does the poll and the question asked. The question I am interested in is "do you believe there is fraud that takes place in the elections?"

Well there's always some level of "fraud" in pretty much every election, such as people voting in multiple states, voting outside where they're registered, or voting when they're not eligible.

And there are all sorts of checks in place to catch those things and make sure they don't affect the outcome.

IF you look at polls even by CNN and those who had Hillary up by 12 points over Trump they admit that more than 70% of Republicans believe this, and more than 50% of voters believe this. I saw polls on Bannon's warroom pandemic a few months back. I am not interested in digging them up again, nor am I interested in debates over which polls to listen to. Even if you take a CNN poll it shows that there is more than enough justification to do a complete audit of the process.

For some reason you don't seem to understand that and keep changing the question to questioning the outcome in 2020. That is a stupid question, why would any reasonable person say yes? The honest question is whether or not there is sufficient reason to do an audit?

I don't understand why you're not acknowledging that many, many audits have been conducted in several states. Why would we need to do more, if all the ones that have already been done show that our elections are free and fair?

we have not had the audit. All I see is people going to extreme lengths to explain why we don't need to do an audit.

Again, audits have been done across the country. Many states even have to, by law, conduct post-election audits after every election.

It is not my job as a citizen to prove that the election was fraudulent, rather it is the governments job to prove that it isn't.

First, as a teacher you should know that you don't prove negatives.

Second, they have proven several times that our elections are legitimate, free, and fair.

Here is the right question

Has the US government proven to you that the elections are not fraudulent?

If you ask that question the Democrats cannot say yes because they have been filing lawsuits over alleged election fraud.

Again, if multiple audits across multiple states doesn't prove that the elections aren't fraudulent, then why do you think more audits would change that?

 

[cv5]

Where? Who?

Wow you are sure full of questions Mr. Election fraud expert.

Fortunately, I myself have no further questions because I already posess all of the right answers. Whereby and wherewith I am an election fraud expert in truth and in fact.

 

[ZNP]

Well there's always some level of "fraud" in pretty much every election, such as people voting in multiple states, voting outside where they're registered, or voting when they're not eligible.

Exactly, which is why telling the Americans after 2020 that there was no fraud did nothing to allay fears, only served to destroy the credibility of those making the claim. We have seen Hillary Clinton and a variety of Democrats question elections, question integrity, and question the integrity of the machines. We have seen fraud in Watergate, we could say that RFK's assassination was to influence the election, so since it is well known we have had fraud in many elections it was a lie to say there was no fraud. Since so many voters were concerned about it the proper response was to address that with audits that they were part of the oversight of so they could be satisfied. That is how you build trust.

Schools have been caught up in a number of cheating scandals as well as the scandal with the SAT exam. This is why we have audits. Not because we want to overturn an election but because we want to root up the corruption that is there, just like weeding a garden or preventing embezzelment.

 

[JayBird]

Exactly, which is why telling the Americans after 2020 that there was no fraud

No one said there was absolutely zero fraud. We've known about a handful of cases for some time.

We have seen Hillary Clinton and a variety of Democrats question elections, question integrity, and question the integrity of the machines.

And they too need to knock it off.

Since so many voters were concerned about it the proper response was to address that with audits that they were part of the oversight of so they could be satisfied. That is how you build trust.

I don't know what's going on here, but why you keep calling for audits when you've been shown that many, many have been done already is a mystery.

 

[ZNP]

No one said there was absolutely zero fraud. We've known about a handful of cases for some time.



And they too need to knock it off.



I don't know what's going on here, but why you keep calling for audits when you've been shown that many, many have been done already is a mystery.

Because there hasn't been a single audit done that has done everything they asked. It doesn't matter if you say there has or if you call it an audit. What you are calling an audit is not what they asked for.

 

[JayBird]

Because there hasn't been a single audit done that has done everything they asked. It doesn't matter if you say there has or if you call it an audit. What you are calling an audit is not what they asked for.

What did they ask for that wasn't done?

 

[ZNP]

What did they ask for that wasn't done?

Canvass -- you have to double check that the ballots dropped in the drop box came from addresses with registered voters who actually voted using the drop box.

If 20 ballots came from one address you have to verify that 20 voters live there.

You have to eliminate dead people and people who have moved out of state from the registered voter rolls on the state.

You have to audit the dominion machines.

There is more, but that is the big three.

 

[JayBird]

Canvass -- you have to double check that the ballots dropped in the drop box came from addresses with registered voters who actually voted using the drop box.

If they did that, would you be satisfied?

You have to eliminate dead people and people who have moved out of state from the registered voter rolls on the state.

You have to audit the dominion machines.

There is more, but that is the big three.

Same question...if they did those things would you be satisfied?

 

[ZNP]

If they did that, would you be satisfied?


Same question...if they did those things would you be satisfied?

You don't need to worry about me. I trust the Lord is working all things out for His good pleasure. That includes separating the wheat from the tares.

 

[JayBird]

You don't need to worry about me. I trust the Lord is working all things out for His good pleasure. That includes separating the wheat from the tares.

But would you be interested to see if the things you listed have been done?

 

[ZNP]

But would you be interested to see if the things you listed have been done?

I would be interested if the different factions would agree on how to conduct this election. Anything else at this point is missing the mark

 

[JayBird]

I would be interested if the different factions would agree on how to conduct this election. Anything else at this point is missing the mark

Give me a bit of time and I'll see what I can find.

And what specific factions are you referring to?

 

[ZNP]

Give me a bit of time and I'll see what I can find.

And what specific factions are you referring to?

MAGA, democrats

 

[JayBird]

MAGA, democrats

You expect MAGA to agree with Dems on how to conduct elections?

They never have!

 

[SonJudgment]

National divorce theory might actually be a sensible alternative after all.