Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

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Niki7

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A heart full of wisdom and peace? I think not. Just another DS bad actor IMO.
An unwinnable War with Russia and then China is in the works. Thats how these nutters roll.

I have an immediate and visceral reaction to any kind of finger pointing when done by someone who tries to command God as being their #1 man. I don't care if the finger points up, sideways or worse, at a person
 

ZNP

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War with China will destroy the open door to the gospel there. It will also result in massive Christian persecution.
War with Russia will kill multitudes of those who have yet to receive Jesus.

Sick. It must never happen.

Trump's reticence to wage ceaseless mindless endless war is the real reason for his troubles IMO.
The church age ends when the tribulation begins.
 

JTB

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The church age ends when the tribulation begins.
I tend to think it ends when the 'rapture' occurs.

Until then, we will need the gifts of the Holy Spirit and those are attached to the church age.
 

ZNP

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I tend to think it ends when the 'rapture' occurs.

Until then, we will need the gifts of the Holy Spirit and those are attached to the church age.
I view the first 3 1/2 years as "summer school". They will still need the gifts and they will have a great revival and two witnesses (similar to Peter and Paul). However the "church age" will be over. All the apostate churches get judged and burned with fire at the time of the rapture. Those that were faithful like Philadelphia will be raptured. So the seven churches on earth are over at the time of the rapture, there will only be one group of Christians during the tribulation, they will all be one, there will not be any divisions. Either you stand with the Lord Jesus or you don't.
 

cv5

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I have an immediate and visceral reaction to any kind of finger pointing when done by someone who tries to command God as being their #1 man. I don't care if the finger points up, sideways or worse, at a person
Pence is privy to know every rotten dirty evil deed done on the Hill.
And yet he refuses to resign and walk away from it all?

Speaks volumes to me.
 

cv5

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I tend to think it ends when the 'rapture' occurs.

Until then, we will need the gifts of the Holy Spirit and those are attached to the church age.
Rapture happens before the 70th week even starts. Thats the only and right answer.
 

ZNP

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Rapture happens before the 70th week even starts. Thats the only and right answer.
But how much before? Is it six months before? 1 day before?
 

cv5

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But how much before? Is it six months before? 1 day before?
Nobody really knows. But what we DO know, is that this event is a SECRET. Intentionally.
To whom in particular? SATAN and his demonic hosts.

Jesus is going to do an "outside of time" rapture that is an ace card played that Satan cannot trump, countermeasure or predict.

Furthermore, this rapture is what spurs Satan into high gear and the trib starts.

So the time lag cannot be that great. Days? Weeks? Months at most IMO.
 

ZNP

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Nobody really knows. But what we DO know, is that this event is a SECRET. Intentionally.
To whom in particular? SATAN and his demonic hosts.

Jesus is going to do an "outside of time" rapture that is an ace card played that Satan cannot trump, countermeasure or predict.

Furthermore, this rapture is what spurs Satan into high gear and the trib starts.

So the time lag cannot be that great. Days? Weeks? Months at most IMO.
Nobody knows? Really? God told us to the day, even the minute that Jesus would be crucified, yet you think He is concerned that Satan might figure this out and somehow thwart His plans? Satan is a pawn created by God to do His will, He cannot thwart God's plans. I would be happy to lay out some of the prophecies concerning the day of the Lord, but first let's look at the Biblical underpinning for saying "nobody knows". Can you show us what you are referring to?
 

ZNP

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Nobody really knows. But what we DO know, is that this event is a SECRET. Intentionally.
To whom in particular? SATAN and his demonic hosts.

Jesus is going to do an "outside of time" rapture that is an ace card played that Satan cannot trump, countermeasure or predict.

Furthermore, this rapture is what spurs Satan into high gear and the trib starts.

So the time lag cannot be that great. Days? Weeks? Months at most IMO.
Matthew 24:6 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone.

For me, you, and Gentiles for the last two thousand years that would appear to be definitive. However, for Galilean disciples that Jesus was talking to this was an idiom and it refers to the Bridegroom coming for His Bride. According to the custom the Bridegroom gets engaged to the Bride (betrothed) and then he goes to his father's house and builds an addition for them to live in. He has two years to do this. He has to complete this in 2 years or else the betrothal is nullified. I can prove from the Bible that Jesus was crucified in 30 AD because we know that the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and Ezekiel prophesied that this would happen 40 years after they reject Jesus. The church was betrothed in 30 AD at Pentecost, therefore we know the wedding must take place by 2030. We also know that in this custom the bridegroom comes and takes his bride 7 days before the wedding feast.

Matthew 24:42 “So be alert [give strict attention, be cautious and active in faith], for you do not know which day [whether near or far] your Lord is coming

Are you noticing a pattern? Can you find anywhere where the Lord says "you don't know the year"? Also this word is the conclusion to the Lord telling us to be alert, watching for His return. He does not tell us the day He is returning, but He does make it clear if we are alert and watching we will see the signs.

Again, there are many prophecies about these signs. Jonathan Cahn has shared on a number of them regarding 9/11 being a harbinger. Habakkuk gives us a propheecy, Joel gives us a prophecy, and in every case we are told that these signs tell us "the day of the Lord is near, or the Day of the Lord is at hand". So there are many signs.

The big ones:

1. "He will confirm [strengthen] the covenant with the many for seven years"

and

2. Israel will have a rebuilt temple during the 7 year tribulation. We don't know if it is rebuilt prior to the seven year period beginning, but we do know they have resumed offering the sacrifices and oblations during this time period.

and

3. When they say peace and security sudden destruction.

But Jesus told us it would be as the days of Noah and as the days of Lot.

When Methuselah died it was the fulfillment of a prophecy that the year of the flood had come and so Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood. We can expect that it will be like that at the end of the age.

When Lot fled Sodom it was because he was given a one day warning to flee. We can expect that as well. Prior to Lot getting the warning Abraham also was warned and began praying about this.

So then based on Jesus words we should expect signs and prophetic fulfillments to give us a heads up prior to the start of the tribulation and prior to the rapture.
 

ZNP

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Luke 12:39 “But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time the thief was coming, he [would have been awake and alert, and] would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 40 You too, be continually ready; because the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect.”

This is what thieves do, they scope out a place and pick a time when they think no one will expect them to come. Jesus is doing this to check our heart. Are you leaning on your own understanding or is the Bible the light to your footsteps?

He doesn't want to tell us the day and hour otherwise you will not be "continually ready". He wants servants who are continually ready.

However, if you were a night watchman, you were vigilant, you could certainly be one step ahead of a thief. I remember reading about the FBI breaking into the chief mafioso's house in NY and planting bugs. He had two big dogs that they drugged with big steaks. If someone had been alert they would have seen that the dogs didn't appear hungry at dinner and appeared drugged. They could have gone through the videotape and seen that someone had thrown them some steaks.

Consider another example, at Pearl Harbor the radar operator had a 45 minute warning when he saw the Japanese planes. The officer in charge didn't want to sound the alarm because it was Sunday morning, all the ships in the dock would have had to power up and leave the harbor which can take them 15 to 30 minutes, everyone would have to run back to the ships and man the guns, all the pilots would have to get the airplanes off the ground. It would have been a big mess if he had been wrong. But that is when thieves strike when it is inconvenient. No one knows the day or the hour of the Japanese attack, but a 45 minute warning would have been enough to destroy their airforce, sink their navy, and save countless lives.
 

ZNP

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The Years of Punishment Prophecy (part 1)

This prophecy clearly points to the Lord’s second return in 2030.

House of Israel -- 10 tribes to the North

House of Judah -- Judah and Benjamin

Jeremiah 3:6 Moreover, the Lord said to me in the days of Josiah the king [of Judah], “Have you seen what that faithless Israel has done—how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there she was a prostitute? 7 I thought, ‘After she has done all these things she will return to Me’; but she did not return, and her treacherous (faithless) sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw [that even though Judah knew] that for all the acts of adultery (idolatry) of faithless Israel, I [the Lord] had sent her away and given her a certificate of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah was not afraid; but she went and was a prostitute also [following after idols]. 9 Because of the thoughtlessness of Israel’s prostitution [her immorality mattered little to her], she desecrated the land and committed adultery with [idols of] stones and trees. 10 Yet in spite of all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to Me with her whole heart, but rather in [blatant] deception [she merely pretended obedience to King Josiah’s reforms],” declares the Lord.

Israel was divorced and scattered among the Gentiles where they remain to this day. This is why Jesus said:

Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was commissioned by God and sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

The House of Judah did return to Israel after having been in Babylon, Israel didn’t. However, Judah did not repent with her whole heart.
Ezekiel 37 tells us that both Judah and Israel will be restored and return to the Lord together as one nation.

15 The word of the Lord came again to me, saying, 16 “And you, son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them together into one stick, so that they may become one in your hand. 18 When your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am going to take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join the stick of Judah with it and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 The sticks on which you write shall be in your hand before their eyes. 21 Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am going to take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king over all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and will no longer be divided into two kingdoms.

This takes place right after God raises them from their graves and brings them to Israel.

Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will open your graves and make you come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you [back home] to the land of Israel. 13 Then you will know [with confidence] that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and made you come up out of your graves, My people. 14 I will put My Spirit in you and you will come to life, and I will place you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and fulfilled it,” says the Lord.’”

This ushers in the millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ.

24 “My servant David will be king over them, and they all will have one shepherd. They will also walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. 25 They will live in the land where your fathers lived, [the land] that I gave to My servant Jacob, and they will live there, they and their children and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David will be their leader forever.

Most of the Jews are not walking in the ordinances and statutes and Jesus is not their leader. Before this can take place the punishment period needs to expire. They enter in on Jubilee year 120. So the question is if the year 2030 is the year the Bible says the punishment period will end and the same year as the 120th jubilee year.
 

ZNP

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The Years of Punishment Prophecy (part 2)

Ezekiel 4 tells us when the punishment years begin and when they will end.

Ezekiel 4:4 “Then lie down on your left side (toward the north) to bear [symbolically] the wickedness and punishment of the house of Israel. You shall bear their wickedness and punishment for the number of days that you lie on your side. 5 For I have assigned you the years of their wickedness and punishment, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days [representing three hundred and ninety years]; in this way you shall bear [symbolically] the wickedness and punishment of the house of Israel. 6 When you have completed these [days for Israel], lie down again, but on your right side (toward the south), and you shall bear the wickedness and punishment of the house of Judah forty days. I have assigned you one day for each year. 7 Then you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem with your arm bared and prophesy against it. 8 Now behold, I will put ropes on you so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege.

9 “But as for you, take wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and spelt, and put them into one vessel and make them into bread for yourself. You shall eat it according to the number of the days that you lie on your side, three hundred and ninety days. 10 The food you eat each day shall be [measured] by weight, twenty shekels, to be eaten daily at a set time. 11 You shall drink water by measure also, the sixth part of a hin; you shall drink daily at a set time.

390 days for the house of Israel representing 390 years.

40 days for the house of Judah representing 40 years.

Both punishments are related to a siege of Jerusalem. The 390 years of punishment began at the first siege of Jerusalem and the 40 years of punishment leads to the last siege of Jerusalem.

Leviticus 26:18 And I will kill her children (followers) with pestilence [thoroughly annihilating them], and all the churches will know [without any doubt] that I am He who searches the minds and hearts [the innermost thoughts, purposes]; and I will give to each one of you [a reward or punishment] according to your deeds.

The punishment was for 390 years but Israel still did not listen so it was increased sevenfold. The same is with Judah, they also did not listen and so their punishment was also increased sevenfold.

Ezekiel is told to turn his face towards the siege of Jerusalem, so the siege of Jerusalem is the starting point for each time of punishment. The punishment period begins when we see the punishment begin.

Ezekiel 4:1 “Now you, son of man, take a brick, place it before you and inscribe on it [a diagram of] the city of Jerusalem. 2 Then lay siege against it, build a siege wall, raise a ramp against it; set up [enemy] camps and place battering rams all around it. 3 Further, take an iron plate and place it as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel.

Ezekiel represents the siege, the brick is Jerusalem, and between the two there is an iron wall. This means this first siege does not break through the wall. They limit food and water, but the first siege is not successful. The punishment of Israel began at the first siege of Jerusalem by the Assyrians in 701 BCE. This was the first siege of Jerusalem and it was unsuccessful. This was the beginning of the punishment period for Israel. 311 BCE is 390 years after 701 BCE. Did Israel repent? No.

390 x 7 = 2730 years. 2730 + 701 BCE = 2030 AD (there is no 0 year).

2030 is the next available opportunity for Israel to repent, return to the Lord and be joined to Judah to enter into the reign of Jesus the Messiah according to Ezekiel 37.

Now let’s look at the punishment for the house of Judah.

Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who murders the prophets and stones [to death] those [messengers] who are sent to her [by God]! How often I wanted to gather your children together [around Me], as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Listen carefully: your house is being left to you desolate [completely abandoned by God and destitute of His protection]! 39 For I say to you, you will not see Me again [ministering to you publicly] until you say, ‘Blessed [to be celebrated with praise] is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

Their punishment began in 30 AD when Jesus was crucified. According to the record they were punished for 40 years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem. The curtain separating the holy of holies was torn asunder. Every year for forty years the temple doors would not stay shut, the Menorah would not stay lit for forty years, the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand for forty years and the Yom Kippur scarlet thread would not turn white for forty years.

They failed to repent and so the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the destruction of Jerusalem began their 7 fold punishment period.

40x7=280, 280+70 = 350 AD.

Did they repent in 350 AD?

So then 280 x 7 = 1960 years. They have already served the first 280 year period.

1960 + 70 = 2030

2030 is the first and last time that Judah and Israel can repent, and be joined together as one stick. After this their punishment periods will not end at the same time. Both punishment periods would be multiplied by 7 and they will never mathematically sync up again.

While Ezekiel is laying on his side he is to only eat 20 shekels weight of food and ⅙ hin of water.

20 x 6 = 120. Pointing us to 120 jubilees.

120 x 50 = 6,000. Pointing us to the 6,000 years that to God is 6 days in which He creates a man.

Finally, the punishment period of the House of Israel is represented by his laying on his left side and the punishment period for the house of Judah is depicted by laying on his right side.

If we have a timeline the right side would begin after the siege of Israel, and the left side would begin before the siege of Israel, but that is because in the west we read from left to right. In Hebrew it is the opposite, they read from right to left. So then for the Jews this is the opposite, the punishment for Israel begins with the siege of Jerusalem, whereas the punishment for Judah begins 40 years before the siege of Jerusalem when they crucified Jesus.
 

ZNP

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Nobody really knows. But what we DO know, is that this event is a SECRET. Intentionally.
To whom in particular? SATAN and his demonic hosts.

Jesus is going to do an "outside of time" rapture that is an ace card played that Satan cannot trump, countermeasure or predict.

Furthermore, this rapture is what spurs Satan into high gear and the trib starts.

So the time lag cannot be that great. Days? Weeks? Months at most IMO.
"No one knows the day or the hour" is an idiom that refers to the feast of trumpets. To Gentiles it has no meaning, but to the disciples they had to have been aware of this. You might think, that is only a coincidence.

Paul said the Holy Days were a shadow of things to come

16 Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day. 17 Such things are only a shadow of what is to come and they have only symbolic value; but the substance [the reality of what is foreshadowed] belongs to Christ.

We know that Passover was a shadow of Jesus crucifixion, Unleavened bread was a shadow of Jesus death and burial, First fruits was a shadow of Jesus resurrection and the graves being opened, Shavuot was a shadow of Jesus ascension, and the Feast of New wine, Pentecost, was a shadow of Jesus betrothal of the church when He gave us the Spirit as a foretast and promise for our marriage covenant. The next feast is the Feast of New Wine which coincides with the Feast of Trumpets announcing the coming of the King. It also seems to parallel Jesus coming as the bridegroom with the ten virgins and telling the five foolish to go and buy oil from those that sell, the two olive trees, the two witnesses that minister during the tribulation for 42 months. They are then killed in Jerusalem and left dead for three days. Interestingly, 42 months after Feast of Tabernacles is Feast of Passover. If they begin their ministry on Feast of Tabernacles then they could be killed in Jerusalem at Passover.
 

cv5

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Satan is a pawn created by God to do His will
Satan is a created being with free will. Evident in the fact that he rebelled. Ipso facto he had a viable choice to do it.

Because if Satan did not have a viable choice then that would make God the author of evil which of course is impossible. And if you carefully scrutinize it is also on unbiblical.

FYI.......Satan is constantly accusing God of being the author of evil wrongly. Basically blaming God for his own evil. Fallen man does exactly the same thing. And evidently Satan convinced one third of the angelic host of this falsehood too. Also deceived Eve just the same way.

Adam however was not deceived. Never Forget that......not deceived!

This business of saying that God is a tyrant and the rest of us are puppets is absolutely false. The greatest lie in the universe. In fact it is the primordial first primary lie of Satan
 

ZNP

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If the Feast of Trumpets is a shadow of things to come then we should look at it carefully to see what it is a shadow of.

1. It is ten days before the day of Atonement, the most auspicious day to have a wedding on the Jewish calendar. The 15th of Av is also an auspicious day, but that was for those who had gone through the wilderness for forty years depicting those who are left behind in the tribulation.

2. The day of Atonement is the day that all eschatology believes will be the end of the seven year tribulation. Therefore it is certainly logical that the seven years begins at this time as well.

3. The ten days before the day of Atonement is called "Jacob's trouble". It is not seven days, it is ten days. However, seven days before the day of Atonement the priest changes into a linen garment at twilight and goes to the temple chamber to be kept safe for seven days. This is a shadow of the pre tribulation rapture being changed in the twinkling of an eye (at twilight) into the pure white robes and being taken to our chamber in the heavens to be kept safe during the Lord's indignation.
 

cv5

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Nobody knows? Really? God told us to the day, even the minute that Jesus would be crucified, yet you think He is concerned that Satan might figure this out and somehow thwart His plans? Satan is a pawn created by God to do His will, He cannot thwart God's plans. I would be happy to lay out some of the prophecies concerning the day of the Lord, but first let's look at the Biblical underpinning for saying "nobody knows". Can you show us what you are referring to?
Just to be clear nobody knows the exact precise second.........of the rapture!
Certainly does not apply to the rest of the scriptures prophecies.
 

ZNP

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Satan is a created being with free will. Evident in the fact that he rebelled. Ipso facto he had a viable choice to do it.

Because if Satan did not have a viable choice then that would make God the author of evil which of course is impossible. And if you carefully scrutinize it is also on unbiblical.

FYI.......Satan is constantly accusing God of being the author of evil wrongly. Basically blaming God for his own evil. Fallen man does exactly the same thing. And evidently Satan convinced one third of the angelic host of this falsehood too. Also deceived Eve just the same way.

Adam however was not deceived. Never Forget that......not deceived!

This business of saying that God is a tyrant and the rest of us are puppets is absolutely false. The greatest lie in the universe. In fact it is the primordial first primary lie of Satan
You dodged my point. Jesus crucifixion was prophesied to the year in Daniel. John the Baptist called him "the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world". Satan knew 3 1/2 years before the crucifixion that Jesus was the Passover lamb. He didn't want to crucify Jesus during the feast, but he had no choice, just like in chess when you are forced to make a move.

The idea that God is hiding the time of the rapture so that Satan doesn't find out is not Biblical. God is omnipotent, and omniscient, Satan is neither.

Also, it is God, not Satan, that gives the world the great delusion. In order to have the great delusion they need to be able to set it up and that suggests they have a very good idea of when the rapture will take place.
 

ZNP

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Just to be clear nobody knows the exact precise second.........of the rapture!
Certainly does not apply to the rest of the scriptures prophecies.
So give me the verses you are referring to.
 

ZNP

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Just to be clear nobody knows the exact precise second.........of the rapture!
Certainly does not apply to the rest of the scriptures prophecies.
You said God did this so that Satan wouldn't know as though Satan could do something to thwart God's plans. If Satan could thwart God's plans he would not have crucified Jesus on Passover precisely fulfilling the type and shadow.

There is no Biblical basis anywhere to say that God is concerned about Satan thwarting His plans.