Disgusting LGBT whiner sues heroic Christian baker

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Mar 16, 2021
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#21
I don't buy that you are as full of love as you're letting on. I don't think you're that holy. I don't think anyone is. I suspect that what's really going on is that you have a lack of love. That's why you're unable to support the baker without also giving support to the attacker. Because what you're really saying is that you love everyone. And people that say they love everyone actually love no one. If your love doesn't allow you to distinguish amongst recipients, then what's the point?

For me, I will support the baker. The baker has more value more that the disgusting LGBT attacker. If I only had $5 and that $5 could buy either eternal happiness for the LGBT or a hamburger for the baker, then I would gladly buy the baker a burger. If you can't figure out friend versus enemy, then your friendship is worthless at best.
Please re-read all that I have written. I have never said support the LGBT person instead of the Baker. You are either intentionally or unintentionally misreading what I have written. Neither have I claimed to be extra-holy as you state. Plain and simple I am a sinner saved by grace and grace alone. I know what is right and pure and often don't meet the standard. As Paul himself states, I am chief of sinners and thank God every day for His forgiveness and grace.

Friend, I don't know you but I see what you write and I fear for your soul. Your heart seems full of hate instead of a desire toward love and to be compassionate - compassionate TO ALL people. The last statement about being able to buy the LGBT person eternal happiness or buy the bake a burger speaks volumes. You may be posturing because I am pointing out this clearly unChristian behavior or you may actually believe it. Either way I ask you to examine yourself. The attitude you are espousing is not Christ-like. Blessings to you and I do pray that you take this seriously and can open your heart to the kind of love Christ calls us to have. A love that remains intact even in the face of our death.

Peace.
 

surfer14

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2020
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#22
Please re-read all that I have written. I have never said support the LGBT person instead of the Baker. You are either intentionally or unintentionally misreading what I have written. Neither have I claimed to be extra-holy as you state. Plain and simple I am a sinner saved by grace and grace alone. I know what is right and pure and often don't meet the standard. As Paul himself states, I am chief of sinners and thank God every day for His forgiveness and grace.

Friend, I don't know you but I see what you write and I fear for your soul. Your heart seems full of hate instead of a desire toward love and to be compassionate - compassionate TO ALL people. The last statement about being able to buy the LGBT person eternal happiness or buy the bake a burger speaks volumes. You may be posturing because I am pointing out this clearly unChristian behavior or you may actually believe it. Either way I ask you to examine yourself. The attitude you are espousing is not Christ-like. Blessings to you and I do pray that you take this seriously and can open your heart to the kind of love Christ calls us to have. A love that remains intact even in the face of our death.

Peace.
Do you have a family? Do you not treat your family members differently than outsiders? Would you treat family members the same as those that attack and aim to do harm to your family? If you don't treat family members differently than outsiders, then what would be the point of being in your family? That's exactly what this is all about. As a fellow Christian, the baker is in my extended family. This means I will extend to him certain things that will not be offered to those outside my family. For my family I will give all. For the enemies of my family I will give nothing because I intend to have nothing left to give. If God tells me to do otherwise, I will. Until then my job is to take care of my family.
 
Mar 16, 2021
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#23
Do you have a family? Do you not treat your family members differently than outsiders? Would you treat family members the same as those that attack and aim to do harm to your family? If you don't treat family members differently than outsiders, then what would be the point of being in your family? That's exactly what this is all about. As a fellow Christian, the baker is in my extended family. This means I will extend to him certain things that will not be offered to those outside my family. For my family I will give all. For the enemies of my family I will give nothing because I intend to have nothing left to give. If God tells me to do otherwise, I will. Until then my job is to take care of my family.
Yes, I have a family. Yes, I treat my family with great care and take care of them. Does that mean that my responsibility to treat others with care and respect fades away? By no means. Does that mean that i can only have enough goodness to share love with my family and no others? Craziness.

You mention that if God told you to do differently that you would. I don't know how you view the Bible but trust you consider it the word of God. Consider

Galations 6:10.
New International Version
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Another, from the Sermon on the Mount
Matthew 5:38-42
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

I could add more. so, assuming you respect scripture and assuming you agree with scripture please tell me how these passages support your stance.
 

surfer14

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2020
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#24
Yes, I have a family. Yes, I treat my family with great care and take care of them. Does that mean that my responsibility to treat others with care and respect fades away? By no means. Does that mean that i can only have enough goodness to share love with my family and no others? Craziness.

You mention that if God told you to do differently that you would. I don't know how you view the Bible but trust you consider it the word of God. Consider

Galations 6:10.
New International Version
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Another, from the Sermon on the Mount
Matthew 5:38-42
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

I could add more. so, assuming you respect scripture and assuming you agree with scripture please tell me how these passages support your stance.
40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
How ironic you would pull out this verse. Is the baker sinning for resisting the LGBT lawsuit? Are we also sinning if we aid him in his sinful resistance?

And Galatians 6:10?? Really? That's exactly what I've done. I supported a fellow believer because he's a fellow believer. I didn't do anything wrong to the other guy. He is disgusting. He is a whiner. If I do wrong, I'd want someone to tell me so in no uncertain terms. If they're correct, then I'll be thankful for the correction.

The truth is that Jesus came here and said things that pointed out our need for a savior. Gouge your eyes out was a literal command...meant to point out the need for a savior. Chop off your hands was a literal command...meant to point out the need for a savior. We can't do these commands! We need a savior! Turn the other cheek was a literal command...meant to point out the need for a savior. Be perfect, just like God - another command for the purpose of getting us to see the need for a savior. The point was not that He wanted a bunch of blind quadriplegics that go around getting slapped left and right. The point was to get people to see that they need a savior because the standard He has set is so high that they we'll never measure up.
 
Mar 16, 2021
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#26
40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
How ironic you would pull out this verse. Is the baker sinning for resisting the LGBT lawsuit? Are we also sinning if we aid him in his sinful resistance?

And Galatians 6:10?? Really? That's exactly what I've done. I supported a fellow believer because he's a fellow believer. I didn't do anything wrong to the other guy. He is disgusting. He is a whiner. If I do wrong, I'd want someone to tell me so in no uncertain terms. If they're correct, then I'll be thankful for the correction.

The truth is that Jesus came here and said things that pointed out our need for a savior. Gouge your eyes out was a literal command...meant to point out the need for a savior. Chop off your hands was a literal command...meant to point out the need for a savior. We can't do these commands! We need a savior! Turn the other cheek was a literal command...meant to point out the need for a savior. Be perfect, just like God - another command for the purpose of getting us to see the need for a savior. The point was not that He wanted a bunch of blind quadriplegics that go around getting slapped left and right. The point was to get people to see that they need a savior because the standard He has set is so high that they we'll never measure up.
I agree that the Bible holds us to standards that we cannot achieve but it is the standard. Does that mean we shrug our shoulders at the standard and just say 'well, I can't achieve that standard so I am free to be OK with living OPPOSITE of that standard and just trust in my forgiveness for imperfection?' That would be a hard NO.

In Romans 6:1 we see Paul discussing grace and forgiveness of sin when he says "1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?"

Friend my concern is not that we fail to meet the standard as a Christian but, rather, that our attitudes are reflective of our hearts for Christ. When we describe a person as disgusting and actively work to make others treat that person in a hateful way this is not exhibiting a Christian mindset. I would challenge you to find me any example in scripture - any example - that supports the kind of rhetoric you have promoted. Trust me, I understand the challenge in seeing this kind of behavior and not having a visceral reaction. But how amazing would it be if the baker and his representatives were to call a meeting with the LGBT activist and have an honest discussion where the baker is able to share with the LGBT person why he believes as he does - to try to connect with the LGBT person in a positive way. To explain that his resistance to baking cakes as requested is not because of any hate for the LGBT person but because of his deep held beliefs and even to offer to bake some number of cakes for this individual for free as a show of his outreach. This may have no impact but it would absolutely be the kind of thing Christ would have done. During such a conversation the baker can even tell the LGBT person that he does not wish to be in court with the LGBT person and seek to work out an appropriate settlement but also to state that this issue is so important to him that he will continue the litigation not because he wants to but because the LGBT person is giving him no choice.

Such an approach in love would allow the baker to stand his moral ground, demonstrate love and attempt to connect with this individual and also communicate clearly with this person in truth. If, then, the LGBT person continues such behavior then the baker has done what he can in the name or Christ and reconciliation.

The way your entire thread has come across is steeped in hate and bigotry instead of true concern for reconciliation, peach and connection between both parties as would be expected from a Christian.
 
Mar 16, 2021
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#27
Actually, this is very practical counsel.
Don't disagree tat supporting the baker financially through this would be a positive result. Much like supporting Mike Lindell financially sustains his ability to withstand the attacks inflected on him and his company.
 

surfer14

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2020
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#28
I agree that the Bible holds us to standards that we cannot achieve but it is the standard. Does that mean we shrug our shoulders at the standard and just say 'well, I can't achieve that standard so I am free to be OK with living OPPOSITE of that standard and just trust in my forgiveness for imperfection?' That would be a hard NO.

In Romans 6:1 we see Paul discussing grace and forgiveness of sin when he says "1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?"

Friend my concern is not that we fail to meet the standard as a Christian but, rather, that our attitudes are reflective of our hearts for Christ. When we describe a person as disgusting and actively work to make others treat that person in a hateful way this is not exhibiting a Christian mindset. I would challenge you to find me any example in scripture - any example - that supports the kind of rhetoric you have promoted. Trust me, I understand the challenge in seeing this kind of behavior and not having a visceral reaction. But how amazing would it be if the baker and his representatives were to call a meeting with the LGBT activist and have an honest discussion where the baker is able to share with the LGBT person why he believes as he does - to try to connect with the LGBT person in a positive way. To explain that his resistance to baking cakes as requested is not because of any hate for the LGBT person but because of his deep held beliefs and even to offer to bake some number of cakes for this individual for free as a show of his outreach. This may have no impact but it would absolutely be the kind of thing Christ would have done. During such a conversation the baker can even tell the LGBT person that he does not wish to be in court with the LGBT person and seek to work out an appropriate settlement but also to state that this issue is so important to him that he will continue the litigation not because he wants to but because the LGBT person is giving him no choice.

Such an approach in love would allow the baker to stand his moral ground, demonstrate love and attempt to connect with this individual and also communicate clearly with this person in truth. If, then, the LGBT person continues such behavior then the baker has done what he can in the name or Christ and reconciliation.

The way your entire thread has come across is steeped in hate and bigotry instead of true concern for reconciliation, peach and connection between both parties as would be expected from a Christian.
1. I did not sin. The LGBT guy is the one sinning. Why are you hounding me instead of him? And it even sounds like you're starting to say that the baker isn't doing enough to reach out to the attacker? Do you blame rape victims also? Was the baker asking for it?
2. I didn't "actively work to make others treat that person in a hateful way". What I did was try to get Christians to support other Christians. Apparently you think that Christians looking out for each other is hateful to everyone else.
3. There is no "reconciliation" that's needed between Christians and LGBT's. The only reconciliation was between man and God, and that's been accomplished already. The LGBT crowd rejected it, and God gave them over to a reprobate mind. Christianity hasn't wronged LGBT's. If anything we've sinned by being too lenient. God said they should be executed. Or do you think God was sinning and being hateful?
4. Regarding your challenge, Elijah on Mt Carmel did some next level trolling on the pagan priests before executing them. John the Baptist insulted the Pharisees. Jesus called some people foxes, which was some kind of derogatory insult. He also went on a rampage against the banksters.
5. "LGBT"'s are LGBT because it's cool to be LGBT. That's it. The more it's coddled, the more it'll grow. The more it's mocked and made fun of, the sooner it'll stop being cool.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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#29
Interesting that your concern lies with a satanic LGBT rather than with the Christian who's being attacked. This psychotic tranny has been harassing the poor guy for years. Where's your concern for his business? His family? His sanity? He's even getting death threats for not buckling. I really wonder whose side you're on? All you're concerned with are the delicate sensibilities of someone that is actively working towards the destruction of everything that is good, wholesome, beautiful and true.

The reason I worded the headline that way is because it's kinda funny and makes a point. I suppose I could have gone the other direction with it. Maybe this one would make you happier?
"White, xtian male uses privilege to deny food to poor LGBT woman."
Race trumps gender, so it's the whiteyness that got them wolves running.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,883
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#30
Don't disagree tat supporting the baker financially through this would be a positive result. Much like supporting Mike Lindell financially sustains his ability to withstand the attacks inflected on him and his company.

Going to step into the breech here a bit. I think both sides have a point. We will never win people to the Lord if we act like Westboro church. The stand around with signs saying "God hates f*gs." As you have mentioned, God hates sin. And these people are in bondage to sin. The only one that can free them is Christ. While I agree we must never come across as hating the person, we must absolutely stand strong on our convictions. There is a clear agenda being pushed for sin to be accepted and we must never waver in that stance. We must never be seen as agreeing or accepting of sin. And yet ... we must also be honest with our own short comings and sin. Not one of us is perfectly sinless. When I reach out to a person I try to be brutally honest of my own short comings. I let them know I need God's grace as much as anyone. An old song goes "I'm just a sinner, saved by grace". Discernment is lacking so much these days. It's a pity. I don't know, I would bake a vulgar cake, but I might compromise. I might say I'll bake a certain cake if you'll come to church with me for the next several weeks. lol You might not win them, but you might make them think.
 
Mar 16, 2021
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#31
Going to step into the breech here a bit. I think both sides have a point. We will never win people to the Lord if we act like Westboro church. The stand around with signs saying "God hates f*gs." As you have mentioned, God hates sin. And these people are in bondage to sin. The only one that can free them is Christ. While I agree we must never come across as hating the person, we must absolutely stand strong on our convictions. There is a clear agenda being pushed for sin to be accepted and we must never waver in that stance. We must never be seen as agreeing or accepting of sin. And yet ... we must also be honest with our own short comings and sin. Not one of us is perfectly sinless. When I reach out to a person I try to be brutally honest of my own short comings. I let them know I need God's grace as much as anyone. An old song goes "I'm just a sinner, saved by grace". Discernment is lacking so much these days. It's a pity. I don't know, I would bake a vulgar cake, but I might compromise. I might say I'll bake a certain cake if you'll come to church with me for the next several weeks. lol You might not win them, but you might make them think.
YES...fully agree and this encapsulates my points here. I was about to respond to the comments above but this is response enough. It 10000% is about our demeanor in how we approach others in every walk of life. We must ALWAYS remember that we are all saved by grace. As Christians we, better than others, should be able to recognize Satan at work and we should be the hands and feet of God as we take appropriate stands in humility and gentleness - and in strength when required and justified.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,883
4,447
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#32
YES...fully agree and this encapsulates my points here. I was about to respond to the comments above but this is response enough. It 10000% is about our demeanor in how we approach others in every walk of life. We must ALWAYS remember that we are all saved by grace. As Christians we, better than others, should be able to recognize Satan at work and we should be the hands and feet of God as we take appropriate stands in humility and gentleness - and in strength when required and justified.

I really enjoyed the job Jim Caviezel did in the Passion of the Christ. In portraying Jesus he looked at people and it was like he saw through them. He saw their sin, their unworthiness, and yet you saw his love and compassion too. Jesus would often call out sin, or allow the sinner to acknowledge their wrong, then he would say "Go and sin no more". Love people enough to tell them the truth, but remember we were also once lost and needed God.
 

EnglishChick

Active member
Apr 20, 2021
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England UK
#33

EnglishChick

Active member
Apr 20, 2021
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England UK
#34
I agree with the thoughts on this thread but I do take exception to the title of this thread. The title suggests hate for the LGBT person who is acting in ways we consider to be distasteful. I agree it is distasteful but not surprising from someone who doesn't know Christ. Now, I don't KNOW this person doesn't know Christ but only can assume that is the case. When we as Christians call out a person this way with hatred it fully takes away from our ability to love them. Will our love result in conversion? Only God knows. Does our love mean that we accept their premise? No. But love does mean we treat every person with respect and try to engage in positive conversations rather than finger pointing and derision.

I agree completely
 

EnglishChick

Active member
Apr 20, 2021
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England UK
#35
If we just allow the private sector to run their business as they see fit, even if it disagrees or discriminates against a protected class of people then this wouldn't even be an issue. The protected class should only apply when it involves the public sector/property. If someone doesn't want to make a gay or transgender cake, no problem... If someone doesn't want to make a cake for a Christian celebrating their child's baptism, no problem... Capitalism will be the equalizer here.
I agree with this . Their business, their right to refuse service to a request which goes against their moral or religious conscience
 
M

MoonCresta

Guest
#36
Man, that was rough - way unnecessarily.

Steven Rachui - you are right.