Fact Checking LBGTQ+

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Sep 29, 2019
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If someone is a Christian and going through a divorce, if the other spouse was interested in other women, that is grounds for divorce. If they married and it didn't work out, as a Christian they should go before God and confess their mistake and He will forgive them. Just the same if someone murders someone and sincerely repents to God they will be forgiven.
That is not what Jesus says in Matthew 5. Divorce is possible; but he is clear that if they remarry ( except where the divorce was a result of sexual infidelity) then they commit adultery. If the marriage didn't work out then they can separate and confess their mistake, however they should remain single and not remarry. If they do then they are in a state of sin and unrepentant.

Tabin, I actually agree with you. I just find it interesting that people will reinterpret that clear words of scripture for marriage in the modern age in a way they won't for homosexuality.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
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That is not what Jesus says in Matthew 5. Divorce is possible; but he is clear that if they remarry ( except where the divorce was a result of sexual infidelity) then they commit adultery. If the marriage didn't work out then they can separate and confess their mistake, however they should remain single and not remarry. If they do then they are in a state of sin and unrepentant.

Tabin, I actually agree with you. I just find it interesting that people will reinterpret that clear words of scripture for marriage in the modern age in a way they won't for homosexuality.
Except, all sin will be forgiven, if confessed and sincere. The unpardonable sin won't be forgiven the Bible says. God bless.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
If someone is a Christian and going through a divorce, if the other spouse was interested in other women, that is grounds for divorce. If they married and it didn't work out, as a Christian they should go before God and confess their mistake and He will forgive them. Just the same if someone murders someone and sincerely repents to God they will be forgiven.
Yes they will be forgive by God, but not the law.
 
Jan 27, 2015
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Other peoples sin is of no concern to me. It is between them and God. As is mine. My point was that as an organisation the church will preach heavily against homosexuality ( which they say is against God's word) but not against people being married a 2nd or more times whilst their previous married partner is still alive (which is also against the teaching of Jesus....he calls them adulterers).

If you don't mind me asking. Has your sexuality now changed?
I don't mind you asking. It has :)
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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why do I never hear a preacher railing against people in the church who are on their 2nd or more husband, or wife? Why does the church not condemn it in the way that they condemn homosexuals?
What would you like them to say?
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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So wait. This is a real head scratcher to me. I'll be the first in line to say we are accountable for our own decisions. And that environment shapes us.
Yet we Christian's say we are born with a sin nature, and we say sins can be handed down from generations, and then we say no one can be born with a sin nature trending towards sexual immorality, or in this case homosexuality?
Does anyone here realize how utterly ridiculous we sound to the world when we say that?
On another note, who cares what the liberals and gays say about how they were born or how they rationalize their sin?
They are lost.
Sin is sin. No matter how one gets there, or rationalizes it. If you answer a fool...
We just need to except them as Gods creation, rebellious against their creator, and pray for them.
Trying to ascertain how they became that way, outside of the depraved sin nature, is ultimately fruitless. We are not the world. We dont try to fix people by psycho analyzing them.
We know the truth and the truth sets us free.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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The church should not be solely condemning homosexuality. It should be condemning sexual immorality. That can mean immoral sexual acts committed by even a married Christian husband and wife.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
Jesus says that anyone who divorces his or her partner ( except for sexual infidelity) commits adultery. You say the bible condemns adultery. So why do I never hear a preacher railing against people in the church who are on their 2nd or more husband, or wife? Why does the church not condemn it in the way that they condemn homosexuals?
Because of prejudice, hatred and misunderstanding. Besides most know that is a sin that they fear more and that most will likely never commit. Also there is a social benefit to belonging to a group especially where they perceive to share a common enemy. While ignoring the elephant in the living room.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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What would you like them to say?
Well, if they were going to be consistent they would need to interview all the divorced people who have remarried. If it was not for the reason Jesus said was acceptable then they are committing adultery and will need to annul their new marriages so as to be repentant, and therefore forgiven. If they continue with the new husband or wife they are living in sin.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Well, if they were going to be consistent they would need to interview all the divorced people who have remarried. If it was not for the reason Jesus said was acceptable then they are committing adultery and will need to annul their new marriages so as to be repentant, and therefore forgiven. If they continue with the new husband or wife they are living in sin.
You mention Jesus yet there is no grace in your words. I have often heard it said that misery loves company. I’m not attacking you but your words remind me of those sentiments.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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You mention Jesus yet there is no grace in your words. I have often heard it said that misery loves company. I’m not attacking you but your words remind me of those sentiments.
I think you have missed my point. :)
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Yes. So what do,you mean my words lack grace? I,m trying to understand what you mean x
Unless I misread you it seems you want divorcees to be chastised by church leaders same way the gay community is by some individuals.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
Unless I misread you it seems you want divorcees to be chastised by church leaders same way the gay community is by some individuals.
I think you've got it backwards. think he wants, gays to be forgiven and accepted like divorcees.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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Unless I misread you it seems you want divorcees to be chastised by church leaders same way the gay community is by some individuals.
My main point is that believers will be very firm and exacting in quoting the verses of the bible in order to condemn gay people. There is no way they can join most churches AND enjoy a relationship with someone they love.
However, the words of Jesus himself are ignored by the same churches for people who are divorced and remarried ( sometimes multiple times) even though they continue to live in a state that Jesus would call sin.
So gay people have to remain without a partner, but straight people who are divorced ( except for the exception Jesus makes) can apparently find another partner and thus be in a state of adultery.

So why do people who are so keen to quote the " word of God" against gay people ( that Jesus himself said nothing about) not do so against people married 2 or more times whilst their previous partner is still alive? Jesus's words are quite plain in Matthew 5:32. The only way you could find out if someone was divorced for the right reason is to intrusively dig into their private lives. That is the only way you could know who is sinning!

I actually don't support this course of action! I think people deserve love and compassion......whoever they are. I think the bible constantly needs to be reinterpreted for the modern age. Jesus quite often said things very confrontational to get people to snap out of their unconscious stupor and go deeper into life.

Perhaps the bible should not be used so much to point out other people's sins but used as a guide to our own sins?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Perhaps the bible should not be used so much to point out other people's sins but used as a guide to our own sins?
Very well said. The Bible should never be used as a weapon against others but rather because it is a book of love, the love shared in the Bible should be shared with others.

On another note, Do you think Jesus approves of women divorcing physically and/or mentally abusive husbands or do you believe Jesus wants and expects abused women to remain in abusive marriages?
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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Quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that you are guilty of adultery if you remarry for reasons other than Yeshua specified.

I don't think that sin "rests" on you, unless you willfully ignored the spirit on that particular issue and are living in a state of spiritual rebellion.

To say that when both parties remarried and die remarried to their second wives/husbands that they die living in the sin of adultery is a stretch is all I can say. I'm not saying it isn't completely erroneous when factoring in law-based grace (which is something that some practice) but I would imagine that someone that had a legal mind about such things wouldn't do it in the first place.

That's up to each individual but the word is clear on homosexuality as it is with sexual immorality about who will not inherit. I take those verses to mean living in willful rebellion (sin). Like knowing that the Lord was against your marriage and marrying anyway...feeling the conviction (tested, and not just a guilty conscience as far as you can) and simply ignoring it. Personally, I understand that we want things to be clearer and clearer, feeling more conviction heaped on us in order to know for sure that it isn't just a guilty conscience or human judgement, but in my own personal experience, this is quite rare...Especially when plain text is ignored.

As an aside, if you only consider the direct words of Jesus that are red-lettered as something to follow and throw out what the Old testament says about these issues then you need to do a deeper study of what "the word" (john 1:1 ctd) means.


OT, there was an "allowance" for divorce as there was an allowance for polygamy. That doesn't mean that was the Lord's preference, but sort of a "reap what you sow" sort of thing. It was not vague on the issue you are trying to say is alright and you should be accepted in the church because of. It is weakness to ignore a clear leading/command because you cannot submit to the Lord in physical areas. We all have weaknesses however, and workarounds/hotfixes have their place.


You are forgetting that Jesus made a further distinction about adultery regarding simply thinking lustfully about a woman. Based off that, most all of us are guilty by default.

I also find it strange that you are using the adulterous remarriage argument (and calling it sin), and are suggesting that while you are sinning, it isn't that bad, and that you should simply be allowed to have this sin overlooked by the church because everyone else's is and they are similar enough.

If only the catholics had it right, that they could absolve me from my sin. But the priest said I'm good. I'm accepted into this community of "believers" and my sinful lifestyle is accepted and I have no desire to change but I love the Lord and I love who I am with, so it's all good...that other stuff is so "old testament".

Personally dude, I'd run away from a church like that. It's not about what the lukewarm church thinks about things...in my view, most of them have a 50/50 shot of inheriting. You would do well to find a solid church and at least tell them you are open to the fact that you are living in willful rebellion, but the conviction is not there (a presumption on my part and I pray that changes), and as a result...you are open to prayer for that, you are willing to lay your relationship and your orientation on the cross (I.e crucify it), but that you are having a hard time doing so, because it feels correct to you. You just want to be happy, regardless of whether happiness is scriptural or not (Joy is, but happiness you would have a hard time proving scripturally).

I'm not unaware personally of forbidden sexual attractions. Having been tempted with many things, you at least have to accede to the fact that the energy is different. It is possible that focusing on the differences and bringing it before the Lord, he may be willing to guide you through it in a way that is rare. I don't mean practically, I mean experientially through the past. I've had certain things from my childhood brought up that hearken to traps I've fallen into as an adult and memory recall/triggers I attribute to him, as well as the interpretation thereof.

Note: everything I have just propounded is based on adherence to scripture. If a person has no interest in that, my responses would be different.

I just find it interesting that people will reinterpret that clear words of scripture for marriage in the modern age in a way they won't for homosexuality.