Fact Checking LBGTQ+

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,816
4,539
113
65
lawton ok
#81
NIV, the complete Galatians 5 complete section;

Life by the Spirit

13You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh a ; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” b 15If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.


16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever c you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.


22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
440
563
93
#82
Another true story: I was three years old and walked into my sister’s room. She was playing with her Barbie doll and at one point took Barbie’s shirt off. I knew right then and there I liked women. I’m glad my sister wasn’t playing with Ken. Just saying. 😎
Oh yeah.......... well when I was four sitting on my front porch, the boy down the street took off his shirt while cutting the grass and he was "ripped" that is when I definitely knew!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,816
4,539
113
65
lawton ok
#83
I never wondered. Even before I knew the difference I accepted that I was a boy and my job was either to grow up and get married or become a priest. I joined the military and got married when I was 18 and I became a father, a month before I turned 20.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,816
4,539
113
65
lawton ok
#84
NIV, the complete Galatians 5 complete section;

Life by the Spirit

13You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh a ; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” b 15If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.


16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever c you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.


22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
I did become a drunkard and dabbled with sorcery by using drugs. I was an Idoloter because, I had more resect for the nation than the Gospel. I was guilty of gross hatred because I had distain against Vietnamese refugees not realizing that the Israelites and Jesus were also refugees. I also committed fornication and adulteries with women I wasn't married too. Was I any better than a homosexual? NO! I was different but certainly not more rightous by any means. I repented (turned away) and was forgiven. They can and should be (by us) too!
 

Dibby53

Active member
Sep 29, 2019
390
166
43
#86
Oh yeah.......... well when I was four sitting on my front porch, the boy down the street took off his shirt while cutting the grass and he was "ripped" that is when I definitely knew!
:) And there was no "choice" about it when you were four. It just happened. You were attracted and you knew. It's the same experience for gay people.
 
Sep 28, 2019
1,535
841
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#88
Hi Vashweb2
As the report indicates it is a very complex picture. Scientists and psychologists still have no conclusive answer.
From my own experience, being gay is not a choice. Certainly not one I ever remember making. It has always been there. It is just something one becomes aware of as one grows up. So I think this is what gay people mean when they say they were born that way. Sexualrity is just not a choice in the way that going out to buy a new pair of shoes is.
Gotta respect lived experience. I trust peoples opinion like Dibbly's on this. You think he is trying to justify "sinful" behaviour? I doubt it.
"but the research shows...". sometimes commonsense and scientific research arent the same thing.Ideally they should match but we dont live in an ideal world.
 
Oct 18, 2014
14,093
2,026
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#89
:) And there was no "choice" about it when you were four. It just happened. You were attracted and you knew. It's the same experience for gay people.
Good morning! Jumping in here again. And as I always I don't mean to offend but am interested in your POV. How do you feel about Bible verses saying homosexuality is wrong? Or do you believe the Bible? I ask because Christians who believe homosexuality is wrong are so far apart from a gay persons POV that people use words like "homophobic". Every gay person I've met has been friendly and I've liked them personally. But then there's this bridge between us. And I know Jesus would have ministered to every person. So I guess I'm going a long way around the question. How can Christians reach out to gay people if they do not agree with their lifestyle? I hope this question isn't offensive.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,816
4,539
113
65
lawton ok
#90
Gotta respect lived experience. I trust peoples opinion like Dibbly's on this. You think he is trying to justify "sinful" behaviour? I doubt it.
"but the research shows...". sometimes commonsense and scientific research arent the same thing.Ideally they should match but we dont live in an ideal world.
I don't think it will be long until some doctors and scientists try to promote homosexuality as a means of population growth control.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,816
4,539
113
65
lawton ok
#91
Except one way is ordained, the other, is not.
Huh? I was talking if they come to Christ and turn away from homosexual behavior, we should set their pasts aside. Remember Saul of Tarsus? He heinously persecuted Christians. After he repented those he was against, accepted him because when he was born again he changed.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
420
819
93
#92
Oh yeah.......... well when I was four sitting on my front porch, the boy down the street took off his shirt while cutting the grass and he was "ripped" that is when I definitely knew!
😂😂😂😂😂
I was 100% positive girls had cooties until I was nearing double digits.


...now I have my doubts.... 77% positive🤔
 
Sep 29, 2019
390
166
43
#93
Good morning! Jumping in here again. And as I always I don't mean to offend but am interested in your POV. How do you feel about Bible verses saying homosexuality is wrong? Or do you believe the Bible? I ask because Christians who believe homosexuality is wrong are so far apart from a gay persons POV that people use words like "homophobic". Every gay person I've met has been friendly and I've liked them personally. But then there's this bridge between us. And I know Jesus would have ministered to every person. So I guess I'm going a long way around the question. How can Christians reach out to gay people if they do not agree with their lifestyle? I hope this question isn't offensive.
This is a really tricky question Kayla girl. All I can do is suggest how I feel and think about things. I,m never offended by a genuine exchange of ideas and fruitful discussion. I like your respectful tone.....it is refreshing. So thank you for that.
There is a whole range of opinion from churches that have no problem at all with homosexuality right through to the " god hates fags" people. Much of it comes down to how people will interpret the various verses that mention anything at all on the subject. And much has already been written on these verses by scholars of all opinions and gay christians themselves; that what is condemned is the common practise in the ancient world of pederasty and temple prostitution. It was common, in places like Corinth, to have younger men as a bit on the side, so to speak. But there was no concept of commited same sex relationships. The range of opinion is out there so take a look for yourself on the internet resources.

I,ll be upfront and say that I think the bible is a human creation and that while God may speak through it and inspire, it can also be used wrongly to cause profound misery. The bible writers simply did not have the knowledge we have today about all sorts of things. This is not to denigrate them....in a thousand years others will look back on us and think, "gosh! Did they really think that??"

Divorce ( except for sexual infidelity) is strongly condemned by Jesus himself. Yet the church is not asking people on 2nd, or even 3rd marriages, the reasons why they left their first partners and to repent and annul those subsequent marriages! Why not? Since the bible would appear to demand it. However, we accept that times have moved on in that case. So will gay people ever fully be accepted as being able to have relationships? Desmond Tutu says yes....Pat Robertson says no. Who will get to interpret scripture for the whole church? Personally, I,m a bit of an outsider. On the fringe. I contemplate and experience God working in my life. That is enough for me. I guess it is for you guys to work it all out.

As a final thought, just talk to the gay people you know. Invite them to share their experience of their sexuality. I bet not many would say it is simply a "lifestyle choice". Many like me deeply loved God and really tried to live a Christian life, but the conflict between that and their sexuality was just too great. After all the message is : No sex, no relationship, no sexual expression of any kind whatsoever. Could many straight people live like that in the church?

This is my personal view. I know people will condemn me for it, but hey ho. I think Christians must be careful with using the bible as a weapon....how many gay people have had the road to their suicide beautifully paved with bible verses?

Peace xxx
 
Sep 28, 2019
1,535
841
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#94
At age 5 when I saw a statue of Mary , I knew I was Catholic.
Therefore I must have the Catholic gene. Science hasnt caught up with us yet.
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
3,730
742
113
#95
I never wondered. Even before I knew the difference I accepted that I was a boy and my job was either to grow up and get married or become a priest. I joined the military and got married when I was 18 and I became a father, a month before I turned 20.
This is a really tricky question Kayla girl. All I can do is suggest how I feel and think about things. I,m never offended by a genuine exchange of ideas and fruitful discussion. I like your respectful tone.....it is refreshing. So thank you for that.
There is a whole range of opinion from churches that have no problem at all with homosexuality right through to the " god hates fags" people. Much of it comes down to how people will interpret the various verses that mention anything at all on the subject. And much has already been written on these verses by scholars of all opinions and gay christians themselves; that what is condemned is the common practise in the ancient world of pederasty and temple prostitution. It was common, in places like Corinth, to have younger men as a bit on the side, so to speak. But there was no concept of commited same sex relationships. The range of opinion is out there so take a look for yourself on the internet resources.

I,ll be upfront and say that I think the bible is a human creation and that while God may speak through it and inspire, it can also be used wrongly to cause profound misery. The bible writers simply did not have the knowledge we have today about all sorts of things. This is not to denigrate them....in a thousand years others will look back on us and think, "gosh! Did they really think that??"

Divorce ( except for sexual infidelity) is strongly condemned by Jesus himself. Yet the church is not asking people on 2nd, or even 3rd marriages, the reasons why they left their first partners and to repent and annul those subsequent marriages! Why not? Since the bible would appear to demand it. However, we accept that times have moved on in that case. So will gay people ever fully be accepted as being able to have relationships? Desmond Tutu says yes....Pat Robertson says no. Who will get to interpret scripture for the whole church? Personally, I,m a bit of an outsider. On the fringe. I contemplate and experience God working in my life. That is enough for me. I guess it is for you guys to work it all out.

As a final thought, just talk to the gay people you know. Invite them to share their experience of their sexuality. I bet not many would say it is simply a "lifestyle choice". Many like me deeply loved God and really tried to live a Christian life, but the conflict between that and their sexuality was just too great. After all the message is : No sex, no relationship, no sexual expression of any kind whatsoever. Could many straight people live like that in the church?

This is my personal view. I know people will condemn me for it, but hey ho. I think Christians must be careful with using the bible as a weapon....how many gay people have had the road to their suicide beautifully paved with bible verses?

Peace xxx
It’s really heartbreaking reading this. How you must have suffered. I had a childhood friend, she passed three months back, after fighting her lesbian nature throughout her life. What did the perfect Christians say to her? They told she’d chosen it herself...adding insult to injury. Why couldn’t they just leave her alone? I’ll be praying for you.
 
Sep 28, 2019
1,535
841
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#97
It’s really heartbreaking reading this. How you must have suffered. I had a childhood friend, she passed three months back, after fighting her lesbian nature throughout her life. What did the perfect Christians say to her? They told she’d chosen it herself...adding insult to injury. Why couldn’t they just leave her alone? I’ll be praying for you.
lack of empathy...therefore people dont really understand...
 
Feb 28, 2016
9,441
1,790
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#98
when a like-minded group of people come together flaunting their 'sin', and then say that it is alright,
not even giving 'repentance' a thought, thus not giving God's Position of Authority' any respect!
and so, here are the scriptures fulfilled -

ISA. 5:20.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
11TIM. 3:1.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents,
unthankful, unholy,
3.
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4.
Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5.
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins,
led away with divers lusts,
7.
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8.
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds,
reprobate concerning The Faith.
...............................................................................
13.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
3,435
2,893
113
#99
Yes, some Christians act 'holier than thou' and are judgmental rather than compassionate. No mortal person is free of sin.
However, I think it's dangerous to attempt to 'out-think' God as His thoughts are far above ours. When the Word of God says in Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet' I can't let my 'feelings' for someone overrule my telling them what the Word says, IF they ask.
I have seen gay pride parades, and tbh it looks many of the 'men and women' are outright possessed. It doesn't mean I hate them as God will be the judge of us all.
 
Sep 28, 2019
1,535
841
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Yes, some Christians act 'holier than thou' and are judgmental rather than compassionate. No mortal person is free of sin.
However, I think it's dangerous to attempt to 'out-think' God as His thoughts are far above ours. When the Word of God says in Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet' I can't let my 'feelings' for someone overrule my telling them what the Word says, IF they ask.
I have seen gay pride parades, and tbh it looks many of the 'men and women' are outright possessed. It doesn't mean I hate them as God will be the judge of us all.
i know what you mean. some of that gay pride stuff turns me off gays too. but its a mistake to think all gays are like that.
Does Trumps behaviour and attitude represent all conservative views? No. for many he is an embarassment.