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Not sure I understand your problem with Non-profits not paying certain taxes. Many Non-profits would end up closing down were they charged Federal, State, County, City Taxes, and that would result in great harm to the Community they serve.
One example: Food Banks. What would they be paying taxes on? Their Profits? They do not charge for the food they provide to the needy in their Community they serve. Much of the food they provide is "donated" by private citizens and/or Companies. These folks paid taxes on the food they donated when they purchased it. So, it isn't like there are zero taxes paid on what they provide. When they purchase fuel for their vehicles, they pay all the same taxes everyone else pays. Same with the wear and tear on their vehicles, and the Insurance, as well as their Drivers Licenses.
One example: Meals on Wheels Programs. (much the same as Food Banks) Were they to have to pay some sort of Federal, State, County, City Tax, they would probably close their doors. Then what? Millions of the Elderly, Poor............AND about 500,000 Vets depend on Meals on Wheels Programs to survive. What taxes do you suggest they pay?
One example: Non-profit Hospitals. That should be self explanatory as to why they play a vital role in society.
Anyway, I do not understand your problem with this.
One example: Food Banks. What would they be paying taxes on? Their Profits? They do not charge for the food they provide to the needy in their Community they serve. Much of the food they provide is "donated" by private citizens and/or Companies. These folks paid taxes on the food they donated when they purchased it. So, it isn't like there are zero taxes paid on what they provide. When they purchase fuel for their vehicles, they pay all the same taxes everyone else pays. Same with the wear and tear on their vehicles, and the Insurance, as well as their Drivers Licenses.
One example: Meals on Wheels Programs. (much the same as Food Banks) Were they to have to pay some sort of Federal, State, County, City Tax, they would probably close their doors. Then what? Millions of the Elderly, Poor............AND about 500,000 Vets depend on Meals on Wheels Programs to survive. What taxes do you suggest they pay?
One example: Non-profit Hospitals. That should be self explanatory as to why they play a vital role in society.
Anyway, I do not understand your problem with this.
SOME F.Y.I. TO CONSIDER
Do Nonprofit Organizations Pay Property Taxes? | Chron.com
Nonprofit business structures aren't one-size-fits all. Many different types of nonprofit entities exist, such as trade associations, labor organizations, private foundations and public charities. One thing these nonprofit entities have in common is that they must fulfill federal requirements to be classified as tax-exempt. If an organization meets certain requirements, it can get out of paying income and property taxes.
Do Nonprofit Organizations Pay Property Taxes? | Chron.com
Nonprofit business structures aren't one-size-fits all. Many different types of nonprofit entities exist, such as trade associations, labor organizations, private foundations and public charities. One thing these nonprofit entities have in common is that they must fulfill federal requirements to be classified as tax-exempt. If an organization meets certain requirements, it can get out of paying income and property taxes.
Well, when laws finally change, it won't a matter of ALL non-profit corporations having to pay taxes.
When things finally change, it will specifically be Christian organizations, like churches and seminaries, that will get singled out.
That will have the effect of closing down most churches and seminaries... due to things like impossible property taxes.
This is what the atheist community wants.. and the very liberal christians will be a part of it.
This will eventually happen.
It is inevitable by simply measuring the slopes of change in our culture.
Eventually all churches and seminaries will be shut down by financial means... through a combination of law suits and lack of tax exemptions.
It is inevitable from the trajectory of our culture.
No prophecy is required.
It is inevitable from the trajectory of our culture.
You WILL get what you want.
Eventually churches and seminaries will be forced to pay taxes,
taxes they cannot pay...
and they will all shut down.
At the point in time our society shuts down all the churches and seminaries...
we'll no longer be deserving of having them.
When things finally change, it will specifically be Christian organizations, like churches and seminaries, that will get singled out.
That will have the effect of closing down most churches and seminaries... due to things like impossible property taxes.
This is what the atheist community wants.. and the very liberal christians will be a part of it.
This will eventually happen.
It is inevitable by simply measuring the slopes of change in our culture.
Eventually all churches and seminaries will be shut down by financial means... through a combination of law suits and lack of tax exemptions.
It is inevitable from the trajectory of our culture.
No prophecy is required.
It is inevitable from the trajectory of our culture.
You WILL get what you want.
Eventually churches and seminaries will be forced to pay taxes,
taxes they cannot pay...
and they will all shut down.
At the point in time our society shuts down all the churches and seminaries...
we'll no longer be deserving of having them.
Income Tax:
In case you weren't aware, all ministers and church staff, ALREADY DO pay normal income tax...
just like everyone else.
Pastors already pay income tax just like YOU do.
It's just the organization they work for, the church, that doesn't pay taxes on the income which is donated.
Without these tax exemptions, most churches would not be able to exist.
But, if people want to make churches pay taxes, and shut them down...
then you'll just have a society with no churches.
When our society wants to shut down the churches, it will be a society with no churches.
You can have a land with no churches... but it's going to come with a very high price.
In case you weren't aware, all ministers and church staff, ALREADY DO pay normal income tax...
just like everyone else.
Pastors already pay income tax just like YOU do.
It's just the organization they work for, the church, that doesn't pay taxes on the income which is donated.
Without these tax exemptions, most churches would not be able to exist.
But, if people want to make churches pay taxes, and shut them down...
then you'll just have a society with no churches.
When our society wants to shut down the churches, it will be a society with no churches.
You can have a land with no churches... but it's going to come with a very high price.
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This is how taxes work tho. They are always advancing and encroaching more on freedom and liberty for all. A flat tax would be more fair. Leave out the necessities from being taxed and it would encourage people to live within their means. No more lobster dinners on your ebt card. The problem is that govt is so top heavy it will probably never be fixed. It will collapse under it's own weight...eventually. Then, those that created the problem will be the ones offering the "solution". Lol
Smoke,
What if churches and all non-profits had to pay taxes?
What would that be like?
Let's take a look at this, using a flat 30% tax rate, for simplicity.
Let's pretend you want to donate $1,000 to a Missions Organization, for a particular missionary.
1. If you donate $1,000 to a mission organization... you get no deduction for that now. You have to claim that as part of your income and pay taxes on it. So that $1,000 actually cost you $1300.
2. Next, you give that $1,000 to the mission org, and they have to pay taxes on it, so they only have $700 left of the $1,000 you donated.
3. Then they give that $700 to the missionary. But this missionary may have his own private corporation set up, to protect him from liability... and so his private corporation has to pay corporate taxes... so it ends up as $490.
4. Then the pastor pays himself a check from his private corporation, so he can actually spend the money, but now he has to pay personal income tax on it... so now it's down to $343.
5. So under the "Smoke Plan" to end tax exemptions for non profits... when you want to give $1,000 to missions... it's going to cost you $1,300... and the missionary is going to end up with about $300.
But hey, maybe he won't have a small corporation set up to protect him from liability, and he'll get to spend the whole $490!
Wooo.
That's pretty great for your $1300 donation.
It's brilliant.
Brilliant.
It's brilliant to donate money, and demand everyone pay so many taxes that your donation never gets there.
Sometimes we talk a lot without really thinking things through.
What if churches and all non-profits had to pay taxes?
What would that be like?
Let's take a look at this, using a flat 30% tax rate, for simplicity.
Let's pretend you want to donate $1,000 to a Missions Organization, for a particular missionary.
1. If you donate $1,000 to a mission organization... you get no deduction for that now. You have to claim that as part of your income and pay taxes on it. So that $1,000 actually cost you $1300.
2. Next, you give that $1,000 to the mission org, and they have to pay taxes on it, so they only have $700 left of the $1,000 you donated.
3. Then they give that $700 to the missionary. But this missionary may have his own private corporation set up, to protect him from liability... and so his private corporation has to pay corporate taxes... so it ends up as $490.
4. Then the pastor pays himself a check from his private corporation, so he can actually spend the money, but now he has to pay personal income tax on it... so now it's down to $343.
5. So under the "Smoke Plan" to end tax exemptions for non profits... when you want to give $1,000 to missions... it's going to cost you $1,300... and the missionary is going to end up with about $300.
But hey, maybe he won't have a small corporation set up to protect him from liability, and he'll get to spend the whole $490!
Wooo.
That's pretty great for your $1300 donation.
It's brilliant.
Brilliant.
It's brilliant to donate money, and demand everyone pay so many taxes that your donation never gets there.
Sometimes we talk a lot without really thinking things through.
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Under any tax system, if you GET RID OF non-profit corporations... then basically THERE ARE NO MORE CHARITABLE, TAX DEDUCTIBLE DONATIONS.
1. To tax non-profit corporations is to GET RID OF THEM... as now they're just regular corporations.
2. If you get rid of non-profit corporations you will, by definition, get rid of all non-profit charities, as charities are non-profit corporations.
3. If you get rid of all non-profit charities, there is NOTHING LEFT TO DONATE TO WHICH WILL GIVE YOU A TAX DEDUCTION.
So... taxing non-profit corporations is to GET RID OF ALL DEDUCTIBLE DONATIONS TO CHARITIES.
1. To tax non-profit corporations is to GET RID OF THEM... as now they're just regular corporations.
2. If you get rid of non-profit corporations you will, by definition, get rid of all non-profit charities, as charities are non-profit corporations.
3. If you get rid of all non-profit charities, there is NOTHING LEFT TO DONATE TO WHICH WILL GIVE YOU A TAX DEDUCTION.
So... taxing non-profit corporations is to GET RID OF ALL DEDUCTIBLE DONATIONS TO CHARITIES.
Taxing non-profit corporations would close the doors of most churches and christian organizations, like missions organizations and seminaries.
But I suspect our govt will never tax all non-profit corporations.
They will eventually just single out CHRISTIAN non-profit organizations.
This can easily be done through things like hate speech laws.
(E.g. "If you say certain things from the pulpit, we take away your tax exempt status.")
But I suspect our govt will never tax all non-profit corporations.
They will eventually just single out CHRISTIAN non-profit organizations.
This can easily be done through things like hate speech laws.
(E.g. "If you say certain things from the pulpit, we take away your tax exempt status.")
I think you're right about them targeting Christian churches when/if they remove the tax exempt status. If they do that but keep other other non-profit organizations like Planned Parenthood on tax exempt status it would be hypocritical... but we do have hypocritical laws after all.
If they won't apply the universal standard/principle to all non-profits, then I think the lesser evil is just to keep them all tax exempt. I can understand your fear, and it's legitimate.
If they won't apply the universal standard/principle to all non-profits, then I think the lesser evil is just to keep them all tax exempt. I can understand your fear, and it's legitimate.
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I can see that. Plus they'll make it criminal to refuse to marry whoever and their gecko. What I am talking about is corporations in general. If you get rid of all of them then that would include the tax free variety. Personally, I think corporations are the devils spawn in general and were never meant to enjoy permanent status. They only had their corporatehood so long as they could prove their benefits to the society they operated in.
I don't have a problem with non-profits (I've donated to several and see the fruits of their work), I know it might be difficult for people to understand my point of view. I just can't say "Hey, I have an issue with Planned Parenthood giving abortions, remove their tax exempt status" and not grant someone (lets say an atheist) who has an issue with Christianity the same ability to not have his/her taxes subsidize something he/she is against. Organizations can be non profit and execute their agenda/mission but not at the tax payers' expense (I promise I'm not really heartless lol).
Regarding corporations, there will never be any "get rid of all of them."
They are far too powerful to get rid of them, not to mention this whole system of corporate legal entities is completely pervasive throughout our culture and economy. Getting rid of corporations would collapse the entire country. Has nothing to do with whether they're good or bad; it would be like getting rid of electricity... everything would just collapse.
The only way to get rid of corporate legal entities would be to overturn the entire economy, and all private property... as in communism.
We do have a whole lot of far-left democrats in the U.S., who are getting further left every year.
We have many varieties of communist groups in the U.S.
We have lots of communists... lots and lots.
And many people on the left will readily admit to being Marxists... though they don't like the term "communist."
So, I guess a communist revolution is always possible... and that would get rid of the corporations.
I'm sure we have some people right here on this forum that would love to see a "Marxist Revolution."
Yep.
Communist revolutions really aren't my cup of tea....
since the first thing they do is get rid of the Christians.
They are far too powerful to get rid of them, not to mention this whole system of corporate legal entities is completely pervasive throughout our culture and economy. Getting rid of corporations would collapse the entire country. Has nothing to do with whether they're good or bad; it would be like getting rid of electricity... everything would just collapse.
The only way to get rid of corporate legal entities would be to overturn the entire economy, and all private property... as in communism.
We do have a whole lot of far-left democrats in the U.S., who are getting further left every year.
We have many varieties of communist groups in the U.S.
We have lots of communists... lots and lots.
And many people on the left will readily admit to being Marxists... though they don't like the term "communist."
So, I guess a communist revolution is always possible... and that would get rid of the corporations.
I'm sure we have some people right here on this forum that would love to see a "Marxist Revolution."
Yep.
Communist revolutions really aren't my cup of tea....
since the first thing they do is get rid of the Christians.