Free will to have abortion or live gay life.

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Jul 12, 2019
5
2
3
#1
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
996
113
#2
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
What do you think about God ordering Israel to kill the Amalekites , every man woman child and all their livestock ?
 

Dooms

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2018
66
61
18
#3
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
There are churches that go left wing as well. Politics in the church is just one example of churches bending to serve man and his culture instead of God. I've never liked church politics (of either wing) and never will. We are to be serving a higher power than nations.

That being said, the church serves an important function and does a LOT of good in the world. Good luck on your new path, and don't let anything of the world defer you from Jesus!
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,457
2,930
113
#4
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
I have never understood why people mix politics and religion.. When i became a Christian i became a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ and the Word of God contained in the Bible.. I did not become a member or a supporter of a political leader or party.. But i see this all the time people mixing politics in with religion and it just frustrates me to no end..

I am not an American but from my observation and listening to Americans i got the message that Christian Americans supported Trump not because he was a glowing example of a righteous Christian but because he was less evil then hillary clinton.. So it was the choice between a faulty man and an evil woman.. So they picked the faulty man..

Now from what i have seen of Biden he has a history of acting like a creep around young girls, sniffing their hair and saying inappropriate things to them.. He also sounds like he is going senile, he is just too old..

So i would expect the US Christian voters to be mostly voting for trump again in 2020.. Again not because they think of Him as a worthy example of a devout Christian man,, but because they see him as being less evil then the alternative..

As for forcing people to follow Gods will.. I will agree with you that we are not here to force others to believe in or follow the will of God.. But the powers of state are well advised to create laws that are in tune with the 10 commandments if they want to govern over a peaceful and prosperous nation..

Allowing and promoting sexual degeneracy will not end well for a nation that goes down that path.. Allowing unborn Children to be massacred by the million is also a way to the eventual collapse of your nation.. So the worldly powers can make what ever laws they deem fit..

Free will is the ability to make ones own mind up and make a decision on what path in life to pursue.. But free will does not come without consequences for what ever we decide to do.. I have the free will to drive down my local country roads at 160kmh.. But i also must accept the possible consequences of taking that course of action.. Either getting arrested by the local cops and losing my car and license or ending up as a death statistic by being wrapped inside a car wreck around a tree because my car lost it around a corner..

Free will has never meant decisions without consequences..
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,413
4,110
113
#5
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy.
So you're saying he's a sinner, like you have admitted you were, like we all are and need God's forgiveness. His VP is a born again Christian. Ever think God may be working on the mans heart? Pompeo is a born again Christian, in fact he's surrounded by Christians. No better place in life if him to be. It's up to him to accept it or walk away. Same as all of us.



This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service.
So did Bill Clinton, as did Biden,he had "asthma" but was still able to be an all star in sports in high school,playing basketball which is a sport you need to be healthy to play.




Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered.
Yes, it's funny how the MSM can recall and drag up everything a person has done wrong since childhood but never mentioned the many, many people he helped and gave money to. Can't find one good thing he ever did. Funny that.




A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide?
What's wrong with declaring bankruptcy? All kinds of famous people, especially in business, have had to do it. So what? He doesn't have to show his taxes. Part of it came out and said he paid more in taxes than he should have, suddenly the MSM went silent. Notice how they never bring it up anymore.



This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it.
Really?! Have you seen how Biden reacts?! Grabbing people, threatening them, calling them names. This virus is the best thing that happened to Biden!! Keeps him indoors and away from people. You might be a little reactive too if the entire MSM was in the bag for the other party and waiting to rip you limb from limb.



I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man.
And I'm astounded anyone could call themselves a Christian and be Dem. And I'm not simply trying to be rude, I honestly don't understand it.
I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden.
So you have no issues with the fact that women have said his touching makes them feel uncomfortable and one claimed he assaulted her?

On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue.
Those are only two issues, there are many other reasons. One main one is his support of Israel. But no, it's not only those two reasons.



But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will It is for each of us to decide for ourselves.
On the one hand I honestly don't care who people sleep with. But when you are pushing an agenda that the church must accept your lifestyle choice, we have an issue. Other than that, it's up to the country to vote on gay marriage. But now we have over 62 genders recognized. So we opened the door and look where it got us. Now people are being jailed because they mis-gendered a person. They want men to be able to use women's bathrooms. So while you may chalk it up to free will, it just isn't that simple.

The second issue I have much more issue with. Since Roe 63 million, and those are only the reported ones, innocent lives have been lost. That is the population of Canada.It's a silent holocaust. And every single Christian ought to be standing up and pushing until abortion is ended for good. Abortion is the Dems sacred cow, and now infanticide has been brought out in the open. If slavery was America's greatest sin back then, abortion is it's greatest sin now. NYC lit up the tower pink to celebrate the murder of innocent children. If that were the only issue on the table it would be a good enough reason to never vote Dem. Every Christian ought to stand against abortion and vote pro-life candidates. Abortion murders the innocent and is founded in racism. I cannot understand why Dems support Planned Parenthood so vehemently and yet say that are against racism. Boggles the mind.



I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief.
I don't think anyone should be beat up for what they believe. But with all due respect, each of us believes God is telling us we are right and to not back down. That's why this country is split down the middle.


D
Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated
The Bible says we are to be salt and light. Ever rub salt in a wound? I assume you believe the Holocaust was wrong. Some Christians pretty much had the same idea,live and let live. Not our business, when they saw Jews being persecuted, their businesses being destroyed, then rounded up and shipped off. But people like Bonhoffer said no, and put his life on the line for what he believed. Christians have been burned at stakes, thrown to lions, tortured and thrown in prison because they stood for what they believed.

I believe the issues we are facing today are that serious. If we're going to be a moral compass we have to stand up and speak up. John the Baptist was tossed in prison for speaking up to the king and telling him he was sinning by sleeping with his brothers wife. The apostles were thrown into prison for preaching the Gospel, Paul wrote portions of the NT from his prison cell!! So no, we aren't to be silent. That doesn't mean we don't use wisdom. We don't act like the Westboro Baptist cult. But no, we are not to remain silent as the abortion mills continue to rip apart innocent babies. We are not to be silent when women and children are being forced to use the bathroom with grown men. We are not to be silent when BDS supporters move against Israel. Daniel wasn't thrown in the lions den for no reason.

Just remember, you asked for peoples thoughts on your opinion. I've tried not to be rude. But there are other POVs out there and they are just as sincere in their faith as you are.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,460
2,030
113
#6
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
But it's OK for others to dictate to Christians what they must tolerate?
Does being Christian negate your right to speak up and defend what you believe?
What you're basically saying is by being Christian there is no right to fight for what you believe. But by being a non-Christian it's OK. You have double standards.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,208
2,369
113
#7
Here is my advice for the OP as a new Christian.

Get a readable, modern English translation, and read it daily for the rest of your life. Three chapters of the OT and 1 chapter of the New Testament gets you through the Bible in a year. Remember to pray daily, and build your relationship with God.

I'm Canadian and last US election, I thought Hillary was the best choice. I argued constantly with people in the News Forum. In the end, they convinced me that Trump was the best choice, and that Clinton was a sneaky, lying leftist. I think as a new Christian, you are still clinging to your old, worldly beliefs. Every time I think of that election, I realize what a huge mistake America dodged by electing Trump.

In Canada, we elected Justin Trudeau in 2015, and again in 2019. He is a Liberal, and is the worst Prime Minister we have ever had. He has spent most of his time campaigning for a UN Security Council temporary seat, for himself, by giving away reams of money to every tiny country in the third world. And usually for abortion. Canada did not dodge the bullet, and Trudeau has literally ruined our country. Even law & order has been lost, under his reign of terror. That is what the United States would be like, had Hillary Clinton been elected!!
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#8
It is for each of us to decide for ourselves.
Yes, God tells us though Moses to choose life or death, sickness or health, blessing or curse and poverty or prosperity. There are many choices and God is not going to make our choices for us. He wants us to make all of our own choices. "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" (Deut30:19) Life is always the right choice to make.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,097
2,904
113
#9
I have never understood why people mix politics and religion.. When i became a Christian i became a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ and the Word of God contained in the Bible.. I did not become a member or a supporter of a political leader or party.. But i see this all the time people mixing politics in with religion and it just frustrates me to no end..

I am not an American but from my observation and listening to Americans i got the message that Christian Americans supported Trump not because he was a glowing example of a righteous Christian but because he was less evil then hillary clinton.. So it was the choice between a faulty man and an evil woman.. So they picked the faulty man..

Now from what i have seen of Biden he has a history of acting like a creep around young girls, sniffing their hair and saying inappropriate things to them.. He also sounds like he is going senile, he is just too old..

So i would expect the US Christian voters to be mostly voting for trump again in 2020.. Again not because they think of Him as a worthy example of a devout Christian man,, but because they see him as being less evil then the alternative..

As for forcing people to follow Gods will.. I will agree with you that we are not here to force others to believe in or follow the will of God.. But the powers of state are well advised to create laws that are in tune with the 10 commandments if they want to govern over a peaceful and prosperous nation..

Allowing and promoting sexual degeneracy will not end well for a nation that goes down that path.. Allowing unborn Children to be massacred by the million is also a way to the eventual collapse of your nation.. So the worldly powers can make what ever laws they deem fit..

Free will is the ability to make ones own mind up and make a decision on what path in life to pursue.. But free will does not come without consequences for what ever we decide to do.. I have the free will to drive down my local country roads at 160kmh.. But i also must accept the possible consequences of taking that course of action.. Either getting arrested by the local cops and losing my car and license or ending up as a death statistic by being wrapped inside a car wreck around a tree because my car lost it around a corner..

Free will has never meant decisions without consequences..
Because religion speaks into politics. The Pharisees being part of the Sanhedrin, Pilate, Herod, are a testimonial to the mixture of religion as Jesus, the Apostles and disciples came into contact with these groups or people.

Eventually Christianity influenced politically the whole Roman Empire. But I understand. Your a pacifist so this belief is part of the MO. I just thank God for the historical individuals who stood up against and acted within the political governing forces of the day rather they be a theocracy, pagan, or atheistic. Martin Luther the reformationist, William Tyndale, or even George Washington.

To sit idol is the difference between North Korea and South Korea.

I will be voting for Trump. I do not see him as less evil or even evil period. He is a man with a past of sin just like all of us. His administration has done more for Christians than any administration in decades. The evidence is overwhelming of that fact. So no I am not voting for the lesser evil. I'm voting for someone who wants God back in school, back in our country, and churches to be set free from hostility. A.G. Barr has been cracking down to defend religious freedom. I see God's hand in everything. It spiritual warfare between Kingdoms made evident in Daniel and Ephesions 6.

But I agree with everything else in your post.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,457
2,930
113
#10
I don't have a problem with Christians engaging in political protest and activisim as an outside voice speaking to worldly Authority..

But getting into bed and whoring with the kings of this world trying to make the kingdoms of this world Christian kingdoms only ends up corrupting Christians to compromise the Word of God to support this human king or that human king..

As for Trump i see Him as a politician who saw a demographic in His country that where not being listened to or served by ant political faction... And voicing the concerns of that demographic lead to him winning the solid support of that critical demographic.. But does he geniunly believe in what he is saying?? I believe He is primaraly focused on economics.. He is not a religious leader.. Yeah he will attend religous community meetings and put on a show to secure that demographic.. But in the end money talks for Trump.. Religion is a side issue at best..
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
16,413
4,110
113
#11
He is not a religious leader.. Yeah he will attend religous community meetings and put on a show to secure that demographic.. But in the end money talks for Trump.. Religion is a side issue at best..
Which can be said of every single leader in WA.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,311
996
113
#12
I have never understood why people mix politics and religion.. When i became a Christian i became a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ and the Word of God contained in the Bible.. I did not become a member or a supporter of a political leader or party.. But i see this all the time people mixing politics in with religion and it just frustrates me to no end..

I am not an American but from my observation and listening to Americans i got the message that Christian Americans supported Trump not because he was a glowing example of a righteous Christian but because he was less evil then hillary clinton.. So it was the choice between a faulty man and an evil woman.. So they picked the faulty man..

Now from what i have seen of Biden he has a history of acting like a creep around young girls, sniffing their hair and saying inappropriate things to them.. He also sounds like he is going senile, he is just too old..

So i would expect the US Christian voters to be mostly voting for trump again in 2020.. Again not because they think of Him as a worthy example of a devout Christian man,, but because they see him as being less evil then the alternative..

As for forcing people to follow Gods will.. I will agree with you that we are not here to force others to believe in or follow the will of God.. But the powers of state are well advised to create laws that are in tune with the 10 commandments if they want to govern over a peaceful and prosperous nation..

Allowing and promoting sexual degeneracy will not end well for a nation that goes down that path.. Allowing unborn Children to be massacred by the million is also a way to the eventual collapse of your nation.. So the worldly powers can make what ever laws they deem fit..

Free will is the ability to make ones own mind up and make a decision on what path in life to pursue.. But free will does not come without consequences for what ever we decide to do.. I have the free will to drive down my local country roads at 160kmh.. But i also must accept the possible consequences of taking that course of action.. Either getting arrested by the local cops and losing my car and license or ending up as a death statistic by being wrapped inside a car wreck around a tree because my car lost it around a corner..

Free will has never meant decisions without consequences..
There are no religious tests to run for office .. But voters can apply their religious standards and vote for their candidates accordingly ..
 
Feb 1, 2020
725
225
43
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#13
No, you are quite incorrect. At the heart of it there is no free will, but this is rather a lie that Satan deceives his followers with. For they will proclaim liberty while they are even servants of corruption. You either do God's will or the Devil's will and you meet your destiny. There are only two kingdoms to serve; the kingdom of truth and the kingdom of lies. These two kingdoms are opposed to each other and they can only fight each other, for they cannot fight themselves. In the end the kingdom of God will destroy the pathetic kingdom of the Devil, and the Lord Jesus will return to save us from the wicked and he will slay all the wicked losers with the power of the sword of his mouth and cast the Devil and his kingdom into the lake of fire for all of eternity, praise Jesus.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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#15
When we become Christian, we are publicly acknowledging before God and presumably others, that we are ready to be of Christ. We're not saying we're ready to be of the Democrats or Republicans, but of Christ. It's time to parse out how we can better align with the ideals of Christ. We have the Bible for that.

Now, many of us were not born into the church or raised in a remotely spiritual or religious family, including myself. We pick up a lot of ideas, opinions, beliefs, etc on our way to being a Christian. We don't instantaneously forget the opinions that used to define us and we may even still feel strongly about those opinions. Furthermore, sanctification is a process, but spiritually we are perfected through faith in Christ. That's our only hope and assurance, our faith.

It really just sounds like you spend too much time listening to the news. With them they often tell 9 truths and 1 lie, subtly building a framework of deceit to push an agenda. They are master manipulators and propagandists. Often there are no outright blatant lies, but deception by omission of facts or misleading by making a false equivalency. I recommend just keeping a finger on the pulse of the news, perhaps only 5 minutes a day, but not getting too absorbed into it.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#16
I would not pay too much attention to politics at this time, even though world leaders are on the news everyday blowing their own trumpet so to speak.

I notice that people most vote for who represents them and people with money tend to vote right and people that dont tend to vote left.

It does seem to come down to $$ and what govt want to spend that budget on. Rich people of course assume that spending it on themselves is better than 'lost cause' poor and vulnerable people. and those who are poor and vulnerable welcome anyone to relieve their suffering. It has always been that way.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#17
If you are a believer then...your leader is Jesus, look to Him, no matter who is in authority at the time. He is eternal, those leaders are just temporal.
 
Feb 1, 2020
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#20
Politics and Christianity, and even each and every single false religion go hand in hand. Government is a gift of the Spirit. The powers and principalities are also subjects of the Enemy to be fought and torn down by the saints. So it's more than fair, even necessary, for the Christians to not forsake the field of politics and cede so much control so easily to Satan's deceived children.

As such the two kingdoms are always very present in politics. Governments and societies are raised up, and fought over by the forces of good and evil, they go from glorious and upright to corrupted and ultimately torn down by the hand of Mighty God. Their crowns are all in his hand and the King of Kings has the ultimate say over them all. This King of Kings is Jesus.

As the law of America still stands, the citizen is the sovereign of America, as it were the crowns are on your heads as much as you'll keep them rather than exchange them for a tyrant's iron yoke. This sovereignty and power is devolved, fashioned into the form of a Republic. The society has in truth become whorish and pagan, the contents of Babylon's cup which proves whose side they have really taken. Yet also in the field of governments, societies, and peoples there are some that would stand and fight against the growing powers of darkness, great unsung heroes of this age fighting for the promise of Jesus. The measure is not yet full for the appointed destruction of America, though plagued for her whoredoms and rebelliousness she will certainly be.

The President is the servant that presides over the rest of the government, acting as the people's executor, and ostensibly is a representation of the people of the nation. So you have a choice every four years which President to choose to represent you. There is no free will, you will be given the choice between President Donald Trump or the former Vice President Joe Biden, both of whom Americans know well as famous fornicators, that this people will have no excuse or cover for their shame, and the consequences of whom the society has chosen to represent them will bear out. Praise Jesus.