Free will to have abortion or live gay life.

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
#21
BirthdayFebruary 2
Gendermale
Marital Statusmarried

Spiritual Status unsure

Country Flag/NationalityUnited States of America

Country (Location)United States


Fix that "unsure" thingy, then move on to learning Scripture

uh, er, and ..... please learn what paragraphs are?

:)
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#22
We live the heterosexual lifestyle.
Some would say that God having told us He is Sovereign, and all things occur due to His will and zeal for His own glory, with all the scriptures reporting His word to us concerning all things being predestined to that end, that while we may think we live our lives by our choices, it is all God, all the time.
Some would say that because God said it first?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#23
I dont pay the slightest attention to a person who says people should drink disinfecteant to rid thesmelves of a virus. If that person was running a country, well.. I would think it could only happen on the Simpsons TV show.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#24
those other 'hot button issues' are just to get peoples votes...and whether or not there is prayers in schools , gay rights, abortions is neither here nor there. Nobody is stopping anyone from praying in school or living a gay lifestyle or killing a baby. . its just a way to get people voting. Politicians do make a lot of arbitrary rules that just get overturned when when the next person comes to power.

To say only right is right and left is evil is just as implying the reverse..and the thing with many poltiticans is they are able to bluff their way in, fool voters and break whatever promises they originally made.

The real power base is in all the govt workers who have to work to put all these policies in place everytime the govt changes.
 

17Bees

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2016
1,380
813
113
#25
those other 'hot button issues' are just to get peoples votes...and whether or not there is prayers in schools , gay rights, abortions is neither here nor there. Nobody is stopping anyone from praying in school or living a gay lifestyle or killing a baby. . its just a way to get people voting. Politicians do make a lot of arbitrary rules that just get overturned when when the next person comes to power.

To say only right is right and left is evil is just as implying the reverse..and the thing with many poltiticans is they are able to bluff their way in, fool voters and break whatever promises they originally made.

The real power base is in all the govt workers who have to work to put all these policies in place everytime the govt changes.
This is the only truth I've heard today.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
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#26
I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up.
Yes God does want us to choose and no one can make that choice for us. We choose life or death, blessing or curse, poverty or prosperity, sickness or health. Life is always the right choice but people can and do make wrong choices. The issue is we HAVE to set a right example for people. We can not approve of people when they do not do what they are suppose to be doing. We have to take a stand for the truth.

We are not to judge others, just set a good example for them and let them make all their own choices: "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." (Romans 2:1) It is very difficult to explain to people that they are guilty of what they accuse others of doing. "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." (Titus 1:15) There are people that understand this but there are also a lot of people that do not understand.

I have an issue that I find some things to be repulsive. Usually people respect that and not get in my face about things I find to be repulsive. The people that do those things tend to respect it and they are usually pretty good about it. I suppose they would rather associate with people that approve of what they are doing. Birds of a feather flock together.
 
R

Reformyourself

Guest
#28
I have never understood why people mix politics and religion.. When i became a Christian i became a believer in the LORD Jesus Christ and the Word of God contained in the Bible.. I did not become a member or a supporter of a political leader or party.. But i see this all the time people mixing politics in with religion and it just frustrates me to no end..

I am not an American but from my observation and listening to Americans i got the message that Christian Americans supported Trump not because he was a glowing example of a righteous Christian but because he was less evil then hillary clinton.. So it was the choice between a faulty man and an evil woman.. So they picked the faulty man..

Now from what i have seen of Biden he has a history of acting like a creep around young girls, sniffing their hair and saying inappropriate things to them.. He also sounds like he is going senile, he is just too old..

So i would expect the US Christian voters to be mostly voting for trump again in 2020.. Again not because they think of Him as a worthy example of a devout Christian man,, but because they see him as being less evil then the alternative..

As for forcing people to follow Gods will.. I will agree with you that we are not here to force others to believe in or follow the will of God.. But the powers of state are well advised to create laws that are in tune with the 10 commandments if they want to govern over a peaceful and prosperous nation..

Allowing and promoting sexual degeneracy will not end well for a nation that goes down that path.. Allowing unborn Children to be massacred by the million is also a way to the eventual collapse of your nation.. So the worldly powers can make what ever laws they deem fit..

Free will is the ability to make ones own mind up and make a decision on what path in life to pursue.. But free will does not come without consequences for what ever we decide to do.. I have the free will to drive down my local country roads at 160kmh.. But i also must accept the possible consequences of taking that course of action.. Either getting arrested by the local cops and losing my car and license or ending up as a death statistic by being wrapped inside a car wreck around a tree because my car lost it around a corner..

Free will has never meant decisions without consequences..
I agree-We have free will-but trust me, the consequences can be devastating. “Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world” (Jerusalem Talmud; Sanhedrin 4:1 (22a)
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
936
113
62
#29
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
I agree with you. My understanding ist, that God use him to protect Israel. This means not that he says yes to his behavings and sin. He is simply a Tool, like f.e. the Assyria Kings.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
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#30
Which conservative president prevented homosexuality and abortion? Society has gone too far to break momentum now. The polls reflect the heart of the people. The only leader that will really stop the corruption of society and government alike is the King of kings. Until He takes the throne the only real change we can bring is within our circle of influence.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#31
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
yeah for some reason the religious right in America think Donald Trump is the best thing since sliced bread
I don't understand it either
 
Mar 27, 2020
75
20
8
#32
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
So you formerly lived "a sinful life style"
Please understand I am a new believer. I lived a very sinful lifestyle. And because of all the shame and guilt I felt, I had a really hard time getting to the place I am now. I recently gave my life to God. And got baptized Easter Sunday. Now I am happier and feel more free than ever before. I know with out a doubt that God is real and has always had his hand on my life. The rub is however, I don't believe everything the church does. For example, most of the religious world (my church is no exception) is Republican and supports Trump. Here is a man who been married four times, cheated on every one of them. And now is married to a centerfold model. He has been recorded saying that he can go up and grab a woman's crotch and get away with it because he is an important guy. This is a man who has gotten multiple deferments to military service. Who has cheated many people out of monies he owed them for services rendered. A man who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. And refuses to show his taxes like every other President has done in the past. Why if he has nothing to hide? This is a man who can't take anyone speaking badly of him without having a twitter-fest about it. I honestly don't understand how anyone can call them selves a God fearing Christian and support this man. I have been a Democrat and will vote for Biden. On one hand I think the Bible says that we are not to concern ourselves with the ways of man. But if I didn't then I would be the only one. I think religious republicans vote for Trump mainly because of two factors. Gay rights and the abortion issue. But I say that God has already laid down the law for these issues and it is not for man to make more laws dictating what people can or can't do. God gave everyone the right to free will. To choose a lifestyle following and serving him and his agenda. Or to live a sinful lifestyle which you will be judged for. Now personally I believe it is sinful to have an abortion or live a gay lifestyle. But I don't believe it is for us to tell someone they can't. Free will. It is for each of us to decide for ourselves. I tried having this discussion with people at Church. But because I don't know enough about the Bible I get beat up. Well not literally. But I can't help but feel right about this issue. It's like God is telling me I am right and not to back down from my belief. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we are not to overstep our boundaries when it comes to dealing with our neighbors. I believe we as Christians are to be a guiding light providing a moral compass for others to follow. A light in the darkness of this sinful world. Not to dictate to others and force our beliefs on them. Your thoughts are appreciated.
So you formerly lived "a very sinful life style" and you thank God for changing you. But..you will not vote for President Trump because he formerly lived a very sinful lifestyle! And, you say, we have the free will to choose between good and evil. Right. But..does that mean God approves when someone chooses evil? Like killing a baby..abortion? That is a Satanic attack upon the image and likeness of God.in the womb! The Bible says in (Deut. 30) "I put before you this day life and death. CHOOSE LIFE then that you and your DESCENDANTS may live." Or..does God approve when someone freely chooses the sin of homosexual behavior? The bible says in (1 Cor.6:9-11) "Be not deceived; neither the fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals..will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such WERE some of you." (not "born that way.") But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#33
Also it's not the president's job to be a religious leader
That would be a clear violation of the Constitution
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
#34
I dont pay the slightest attention to a person who says people should drink disinfecteant to rid thesmelves of a virus. If that person was running a country, well.. I would think it could only happen on the Simpsons TV show.
Tens of millions of people around the world drink disinfectant all the time, every day!

Alcohol is a disinfectant ya know.

Even Christians are gulping the stuff down by the truck load...........just to feel good I guess...........
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#35
I recently watched Sam Harris lecture on free will
He has an interesting take
To summarize, since we have no control over the chemical and electric reactions in our brain that create thoughts in the first place, Free Will is an illusion
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#36
maybe sam harris doesnt have any control over his thoughts but I actually learned how to have control over mine. lol
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,006
113
#37
I recently watched Sam Harris lecture on free will
He has an interesting take
To summarize, since we have no control over the chemical and electric reactions in our brain that create thoughts in the first place, Free Will is an illusion
What did the Skipper nickname Gilligan ?
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#38
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Unknown
Interesting idea that we are a restraining force. Yet each and every person has to make all of their own choices and they will be held accountable for what they do. Negative begats negative and positive returns positive.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
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#40
To summarize, since we have no control over the chemical and electric reactions in our brain that create thoughts in the first place, Free Will is an illusion
We do have control and we are held responsible for the choices we make. We do not determine the outcome of those choices. The animals do not have control. This is what makes us human and above the animals. This began with Adam and Eve when they were given the breath of life.

The Rabbi's teach the young girls not to date. They say nothing good can come out of that. They are to save themselves for their husband and marriage. Science shows us also that this is true. People who date before marriage have a much higher divorce rate compared to those who stay pure and clean before God.