i know someone who doesn't like Israel...

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JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
840
259
43
#1
This person leans conservative but doesn't like what Trump did w/ Israel

thinks wealthy Jews control the whole world or soemthing to that effect

just wondering what others know about Israel and the Palestinians... Some say the lattr are not even a nationality...
 

surfer14

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2020
657
385
63
#2
I am way, way on the right. I am not a fan of Israel at all. I don't think they are God's chosen people. I think Israel is a nation of people whose whole identity is wrapped around their rejection of Jesus Christ. Besides that, they've blown up our ships, spied on us and stolen highly enriched uranium from us. Great friends the Israelis are. I think they would kill us all if they had half a chance.

And that's all I'll say for now because saying anything less than totally flattering about jews will get you banned, fired, bombed, or even crucified.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,521
975
113
73
#3
As I see it there are two major issues to consider when discussing this subject one is Zionism and the other is matters of faith.
Before WW1 neither Israel nor Palestine existed as Nations. The area was part of the Ottoman Empire. Jews and Arabs lived together
there and had done so for centuries with little friction between them. The cause of the present situation is not the fault of either
group but of the treatment of Jews by Europeans throughout the centuries. Persecution of Jews was centered around the fact that
they had customs and culture different from their mainly Christian neighbours and the from the idea that ''the Jews'' in general crucified Jesus as opposed to one group of them and the Romans. In fact one can say the Human Race as a whole crucified him. It is difficult to
see how the present situation can be resolved but I think from a secular point of view Israel should return to the borders it had prior to
1967 and Jerusalem should become and international city. However turning to the Bible it is predicted that the events taking place are part of the end time plan of God. It should be mentioned though that the Jews returning to Israel are not doing so because they have
a splended relationship with God but for Judgement.
 

JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
840
259
43
#4
I am way, way on the right. I am not a fan of Israel at all. I don't think they are God's chosen people. I think Israel is a nation of people whose whole identity is wrapped around their rejection of Jesus Christ. Besides that, they've blown up our ships, spied on us and stolen highly enriched uranium from us. Great friends the Israelis are. I think they would kill us all if they had half a chance.

And that's all I'll say for now because saying anything less than totally flattering about jews will get you banned, fired, bombed, or even crucified.
can you give sites that can inform us about those things u say the Jews did to... presumably the US?

u say their identity is wrapped around rejection of Christ...

I think that is a bit over the top, but who knows? maybe u know something I d on't... which the reason for the OP in the 1st place...

I tend to think a lot of them... their identity is wrapped around $$$$$ (or is that merely a stereotype... yet many a truth is wrapped in stereotypes...)
 

JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
840
259
43
#5
As I see it there are two major issues to consider when discussing this subject one is Zionism and the other is matters of faith.
Before WW1 neither Israel nor Palestine existed as Nations. The area was part of the Ottoman Empire. Jews and Arabs lived together
there and had done so for centuries with little friction between them. The cause of the present situation is not the fault of either
group but of the treatment of Jews by Europeans throughout the centuries. Persecution of Jews was centered around the fact that
they had customs and culture different from their mainly Christian neighbours and the from the idea that ''the Jews'' in general crucified Jesus as opposed to one group of them and the Romans. In fact one can say the Human Race as a whole crucified him. It is difficult to
see how the present situation can be resolved but I think from a secular point of view Israel should return to the borders it had prior to
1967 and Jerusalem should become and international city. However turning to the Bible it is predicted that the events taking place are part of the end time plan of God. It should be mentioned though that the Jews returning to Israel are not doing so because they have
a splended relationship with God but for Judgement.
what do u mean for judgment (not a relationship w/ God)??
 

ResidentAlien

Active member
Apr 21, 2021
346
115
43
#6
This person leans conservative but doesn't like what Trump did w/ Israel

thinks wealthy Jews control the whole world or soemthing to that effect

just wondering what others know about Israel and the Palestinians... Some say the lattr are not even a nationality...
The idea that wealthy Jews control the world has been around forever. Are there a lot of wealthy Jews in positions of power? Sure there are. But "control the world?" Not hardly. No one group controls the world; besides, God controls the world not people.

Jew hatred started with the Catholic church and Jews have been scapegoats ever since (see When a Jew Rules the World by Joel Richardson).

The "Palestinians" have never been a nation with their own government as many of the Arab nations surrounding Israel. They were the inhabitants of Palestine during the British Mandate and comprise more than one ethnic group. After Israel became a nation in 1948 they invited the Palestinians to stay but they left of their own free will. A big part of their predicament is they were abandoned by all the Arabs nations around Israel who refused them entry. So they've blamed Israel ever since.
 

surfer14

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2020
657
385
63
#7
can you give sites that can inform us about those things u say the Jews did to... presumably the US?
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/world/middleeast/jonathan-pollard-israel-us-spy.html
https://thebulletin.org/2014/04/did-israel-steal-bomb-grade-uranium-from-the-united-states/
I could list a whole bunch more. But these are the three that I happened to think of when I made the statement.

u say their identity is wrapped around rejection of Christ...

I think that is a bit over the top, but who knows? maybe u know something I d on't... which the reason for the OP in the 1st place...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
113
#8
There is a pretty wide spectrum of opinions on the Right on almost any topic.

The one thing we all seem to have in common is an opposition to the radical humanism planted in the early modern period, nurtured in the enlightenment, and made to bloom in the 20th century.


This person leans conservative but doesn't like what Trump did w/ Israel

thinks wealthy Jews control the whole world or soemthing to that effect

just wondering what others know about Israel and the Palestinians... Some say the lattr are not even a nationality...
 

JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
840
259
43
#9
The idea that wealthy Jews control the world has been around forever. Are there a lot of wealthy Jews in positions of power? Sure there are. But "control the world?" Not hardly. No one group controls the world; besides, God controls the world not people.

ce.
please.

God does not control the world

He gave it to humans.

and I am tired of everything being blamed on Catholics. you contradict yourself saying the world is controlled by many, not just one group. Then you, as most protestants do, attack Catholics, blame the Catholic Church

You don't even know what it means to be Catholic. Most Protestants don't have a clue about the Catholic Church... they just believe what their pastors and others say about it.. if they understood Catholicism, they would convert to it (or at least accept the good parts of it...)
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,521
975
113
73
#10
what do u mean for judgment (not a relationship w/ God)??
If you read the O/T you will find that God used other Nations as his instrument of judgement against Israel every time the Israelites
disobeyed him. The Bible teaches that in the last days God will bring the Jews back to the land by using the Nations of the world
once again as instruments of judgement. It is in that land that they will commit the ultimate blasphemy by making a treaty with
the Antichrist. A vast majority of Jews do not accept Jesus as Lord and Messiah so they remain as unsaved as most of humanity.
Belief in Christ is the only way to have a full relationship with God. Jesus said ''I am the way. the truth and the life. No one comes to
the Father except by me''
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,075
4,571
113
#11
can you give sites that can inform us about those things u say the Jews did to... presumably the US?

u say their identity is wrapped around rejection of Christ...

I think that is a bit over the top, but who knows? maybe u know something I d on't... which the reason for the OP in the 1st place...

I tend to think a lot of them... their identity is wrapped around $$$$$ (or is that merely a stereotype... yet many a truth is wrapped in stereotypes...)

That is a stereotype, and one that has been used to persecute the Jews.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,075
4,571
113
#12
If you read the O/T you will find that God used other Nations as his instrument of judgement against Israel every time the Israelites
disobeyed him. The Bible teaches that in the last days God will bring the Jews back to the land by using the Nations of the world
once again as instruments of judgement. It is in that land that they will commit the ultimate blasphemy by making a treaty with
the Antichrist. A vast majority of Jews do not accept Jesus as Lord and Messiah so they remain as unsaved as most of humanity.
Belief in Christ is the only way to have a full relationship with God. Jesus said ''I am the way. the truth and the life. No one comes to
the Father except by me''

Except the Bible doesn't say that.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,075
4,571
113
#13
please.

God does not control the world

He gave it to humans.

and I am tired of everything being blamed on Catholics. you contradict yourself saying the world is controlled by many, not just one group. Then you, as most protestants do, attack Catholics, blame the Catholic Church

You don't even know what it means to be Catholic. Most Protestants don't have a clue about the Catholic Church... they just believe what their pastors and others say about it.. if they understood Catholicism, they would convert to it (or at least accept the good parts of it...)

Sorry, but it's sadly true. Both Catholics and Protestants have been part of persecuting the Jews down through history. After the Holocaust they both repented of it.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,497
254
83
#14
This person leans conservative but doesn't like what Trump did w/ Israel

thinks wealthy Jews control the whole world or soemthing to that effect

just wondering what others know about Israel and the Palestinians... Some say the lattr are not even a nationality...
I have been soaked in Israel over the years because I know people who live and work there so one might say I get my information straight from the horses mouth and no my friends there are not horses.

If you want to know the truth about Israel all you have to do is read the mainstream media and take the opposite view. For example some of them are still saying that the recent bust up between Israel and Hamas was started by Israel. That means it was not started by israel.

When they say Hamas is not financed by iran, it means that they are financed by Iran.

When they say as they are doing now that Israel is an apartheid nation it means that Israel is not an apartheid nation.

At the same time they conveniently leave out facts that make Hamas look bad.

For example they have been talking about the children that have been killed by Israel. What they don't tell you is that Hamas place children by their armanent dumps so that they will be killed so that they can trumpet how many children have been killed.

They clamour for a two state solution to the problem, but they don't tell you that they don't want a two state solution because as things are at the moment, they can claim victim status and get millions of dollars of aid, which is supposed to be used to feed and house Palestinians but which they use to buy armanents so that means the Palestinians are hungry and homeless.

And of course they claim that israel is their land which the Jews stole from them. What they don't tell you is prior to 1948 when Israel became a nation and took over the land of Palestine to govern it, there was no government and no Palestinian land. The people who lived there were itinerant bedouins who lived by their own family rules. They didn't want the land until it was given to Israel.

The UN is as thick as two shorts planks. Every war against israel has been started by others and they have never won. Israel has always triumphed. Any one with any intelligence could see the obvious and instead of siding with Hamas they should tell them that they are never going to defeat Israel so the best outcome is to make peace with them.

Especially as Palestinians living under Israeli government would rather do that than live under the rule of Hamas.

God has told the Jews, his chosen people on several occasions that he has given them the land of Palestine in perpetuity so they ain't going nowhere. That in itself tells you that the Palestinian claims are a lost cause. Whilst the media keep rabbiting on about a two state solution, they are fuelling a dream that is not going to happen.

As has been said, quit whilst you are still ahead.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,497
254
83
#15
This person leans conservative but doesn't like what Trump did w/ Israel

thinks wealthy Jews control the whole world or soemthing to that effect

just wondering what others know about Israel and the Palestinians... Some say the latter are not even a nationality...
I have been intimately aquainted with Israel over the years because I know people who live and work there so one might say I get my information straight from the horses mouth and no my friends there are not horses.

If you want to know the truth about Israel all you have to do is read the mainstream media and take the opposite view. For example some of them are still saying that the recent bust up between Israel and Hamas was started by Israel. That means it was not started by israel.

When they say Hamas is not financed by iran, it means that they are financed by Iran.

When they say as they are doing now that Israel is an apartheid nation it means that Israel is not an apartheid nation.

At the same time they conveniently leave out facts that make Hamas look bad.

For example they have been talking about the children that have been killed by Israel. What they don't tell you is that Hamas place children by their armanent dumps so that they will be killed so that they can trumpet how many children have been killed.

They clamour for a two state solution to the problem, but they don't tell you that they don't want a two state solution because as things are at the moment, they can claim victim status and get millions of dollars of aid, which is supposed to be used to feed and house Palestinians but which they use to buy armanents so that means the Palestinians are hungry and homeless.

And of course they claim that israel is their land which the Jews stole from them. What they don't tell you is prior to 1948 when Israel became a nation and took over the land of Palestine to govern it, there was no government and no Palestinian land. The people who lived there were itinerant bedouins who lived by their own family rules. They didn't want the land until it was given to Israel.

The UN is as thick as two shorts planks. Every war against israel has been started by others and they have never won. Israel has always triumphed. Any one with any intelligence could see the obvious and instead of siding with Hamas they should tell them that they are never going to defeat Israel so the best outcome is to make peace with them.

Especially as Palestinians living under Israeli government would rather do that than live under the rule of Hamas.

God has told the Jews, his chosen people on several occasions that he has given them the land of Palestine in perpetuity so they ain't going nowhere. It all began with Abraham who was told he was to settle in the land of Cannan, which is now Israel, and it would become their permanent home. That in itself tells you that the Palestinian claims are a lost cause. Whilst the media keep rabbiting on about a two state solution, they are fuelling a dream that is not going to happen.

As for Jews controlling the world. It is interesting to note that the Jews have been awarded in the region of 109 Nobel prizes with its 6 million people and the Arabs with its 240 million have had six.

As has been said, quit whilst you are still ahead.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,953
7,175
113
#16
This person leans conservative but doesn't like what Trump did w/ Israel
What Trump did with and for Israel on a strictly political basis was right and in fact excellent. He let the whole anti-Israel world (all countries other than America at that time) know that the USA was 100% behind Israel, and Jerusalem is indeed the capital of Israel.
he thinks wealthy Jews control the whole world or something to that effect
This is an entirely separate issue, and it is perfectly true that wealthy Jews -- mostly billionaires -- control world affairs, the media, the social media networks, and politics worldwide. And they do in fact manipulate world events.
just wondering what others know about Israel and the Palestinians... Some say the latter are not even a nationality...
This again is a separate issue. The land of Palestine was under the Romans and it was in 70 AD that the temple, Jerusalem and Judea were destroyed by the Romans and the majority of Jews were driven out after hundreds of thousands were slaughtered. After the Roman empire fell, the Arabs and Muslims (Turks) began to control Palestine, and even the Crusaders were unable to remove them. Then Palestine became a part of the Ottoman (Turkish) empire from the 15th to the 20th century. It came to an end in the early 20th century and Britain was given Palestine as a protectorate.

In the meantime, the Jews who had dispersed from Israel went to various European countries, and they even managed to make a large number of converts in the Khazarian nation (Central Asia). These are the Ashkenazic Jews. Because of anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews throughout Europe, the Zionist Movement began in Europe, and eventually Great Britain gave a portion of Palestine to the Zionist Jews. Thus the nation-state of Israel with established in 1948.

The Arabs living in Palestine thought they had total rights to this area, therefore there were many conflicts with the Arabs, who eventually began to call themselves Palestinians. But the leaders of the Palestinians never wanted to co-exist peacefully with the Jews, and rejected each and every peace plan. The fact of the matter is that Jews have a right to Palestine under the Abrahamic Covenant, and even though Israel is a secular nation, God has allowed them to be established and even flourish in Israel. This is a part of the fulfillment of Bible prophecies.

Arabs and Muslims in the meantime vowed to drive Israel into the sea, and ganged up on Israel many times. But the Six Day War proved that Israel was superior to all their armies, and could have easily taken full control of Palestine. Since they failed to do that they have had nothing but trouble from the Islamist terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah, because Iran has not only been funding those scoundrels, but providing them with military equipment and munitions (including rockets for decimating Israel).

The recent conflict in Gaza was basically funded by Iran, since Israel has been undermining all of Iran's efforts to get nuclear weapons. But Joe Biden is primarily responsible and should be held accountable for this unnecessary conflict. At the same time Israel should not have declared a cease fire until they had cleaned out Hamas. So now Hamas and Iran are claiming the victory, and Israel is back to defending itself. In the meantime, Biden wants to give Iran every advantage to the detriment of Israel.

The Palestinians are not a nation as such but a conglomeration of Arabs who have been living in that area. The ordinary people are victims of their evil leaders, and the evil leaders are controlled by the demons in Iran (the mullahs and ayatollahs). Given all the billions of dollars which have poured into Palestine, each and every citizen could have been living better than any American. But instead, all that money was poured into trying to destroy Israel. Ultimately Satan is behind this hatred for Israel, since the Arabs who live within Israel have the same rights as their Jewish neighbors.
 

JesusWhereRU

Active member
Apr 16, 2021
840
259
43
#17
That is a stereotype, and one that has been used to persecute the Jews.
well, some of us stereotype others bc we are human but we do NOT persecute them. We mind our own business.

Persecutors are... well, we know about them..
 

Jocund

Active member
Jan 14, 2021
334
103
43
#18
Not all who claim to be Jews are Jews:

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." - Revelation 2:9 KJV

This is not to say that any particular groups that call themselves Jewish fall into this category, but this scripture is to be considered.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,491
659
113
#19
"What is a Jew?" is a question fraught with debate as should be expected with a people who have been on and off again landless.

I'm Jewish by only the lightest standards heritage-wise and only claim to be part Jewish because of my esteem for the Old Testament and salvation history. Were I a simply cultural Christian, I would deny that little bit of my heritage entirely. Otherwise, there is nothing else contiguous- no yeshiva, Jewish holiday celebrations, and so forth.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
1,039
157
63
#20
The recent conflict between Palestine and Israel was just a means used by Netanyahu in order to be re elected prime minister. In the end, he lost.
It's not about faith anymore, it's about personal desires.