Immigration a big issue.

[kennethcadwell]

The drug cartel is the problem, but it has trickled down to a major gang violence situation that is causing the kids to suffer badly. Their parents are sending them here for protection to get away from being beaten and killed.

To send them back to that would not be proper. Which I get so upset when I see the likes of McCain on TV spouting how he wants more money approved to expedite them back quicker.

The drug cartel is the problem, and it wouldn't shock me if we ended up in another war over this. IT breaks my hear to see young, unaccompanied children sent here, but the numbers are so high it isn't an easy fix. These kids are put up in warehouses for shelter. We can't just find a foster family for them as soon as they cross the border.

 

[Elizabeth619]

The drug cartel is the problem, but it has trickled down to a major gang violence situation that is causing the kids to suffer badly. Their parents are sending them here for protection to get away from being beaten and killed.

To send them back to that would not be proper. Which I get so upset when I see the likes of McCain on TV spouting how he wants more money approved to expedite them back quicker.

Do you really think a parent sending their child off without supervision and safety is a good thing? I wonder how many were killed on the way to the border.
Another country has sent their problems to us for us to fix. They do not respect our laws, and allowing the illegal immigrants to stay is violating our countries laws. Theres already american children suffering, and we are supposed to now aide anothers countries children when we have a poverty issue ourselves? You can't just think with your heart here. This is not an easy fix. Yes, it is horrible these children did not ask to be in this situation, but we can't just give them what they all want. There are consequences with that

 

[kennethcadwell]

No it is not a good thing to send them off without supervision, but the way I look at it is this:

If my child stays here he will be killed, if I send him to another place at least he will have a chance to live.
Definite death, or a chance at life. I would rather them have the chance at life, and that is how they look at it to.

God does tells us that if some one flees another country do to persecution, we are to accept them in and treat them as one of us. Not send them back to face that violence.

Do you really think a parent sending their child off without supervision and safety is a good thing? I wonder how many were killed on the way to the border.
Another country has sent their problems to us for us to fix. They do not respect our laws, and allowing the illegal immigrants to stay is violating our countries laws. Theres already american children suffering, and we are supposed to now aide anothers countries children when we have a poverty issue ourselves? You can't just think with your heart here. This is not an easy fix. Yes, it is horrible these children did not ask to be in this situation, but we can't just give them what they all want. There are consequences with that

 

[Atwood]

No it is not a good thing to send them off without supervision, but the way I look at it is this:

If my child stays here he will be killed, if I send him to another place at least he will have a chance to live.
Definite death, or a chance at life. I would rather them have the chance at life, and that is how they look at it to.

God does tells us that if some one flees another country do to persecution, we are to accept them in and treat them as one of us. Not send them back to face that violence.

Kenneth, I am aware of OT scripture on not sending back a slave, but I don't know what vs you are speaking of on persecution. What do you have in mind?

 

[Atwood]

Immigration is a big issue right now here in the U.S.
Down at the border there are so many protestors for and against these kids that are fleeing persecution. I have seen news casts talking to some of these people, and some say they are Christian but are totally against them coming here.
Why are so many Christians against housing, and helping them ? They want to just send them back to that persecution with out any care in the world.

We know the bible says we are to follow mans laws as if they were given by God Himself, but we also know that it only applies if it does not contradict God.

What does the bible say about immigrants ? Lets look at a few.......

Leviticus 19:33-34

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.


Exodus 22:21

“You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt


Hebrews 13:2

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares


Isaiah 16:3-4

“Give counsel; grant justice; make your shade like night at the height of noon; shelter the outcasts; do not reveal the fugitive; let the outcasts of Moab sojourn among you; be a shelter to them from the destroyer. When the oppressor is no more, and destruction has ceased, and he who tramples underfoot has vanished from the land.

Isaiah context:

For the cry is gone round about the borders of Moab; the wailing thereof unto Eglaim, and the wailing thereof unto Beer-elim. For the waters of Dimon are full of blood; for I will bring yet more upon Dimon, a lion upon them of Moab that escape, and upon the remnant of the land.


Send ye the lambs for the ruler of the land from Selah to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion. For it shall be that, as wandering birds, as a scattered nest, so shall the daughters of Moab be at the fords of the Arnon. Give counsel, execute justice; make thy shade as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; betray not the fugitive. Let mine outcasts dwell with thee; as for Moab, be thou a covert to him from the face of the destroyer. For the extortioner is brought to nought, destruction ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land. And a throne shall be established in lovingkindness; and one shall sit thereon in truth, in the tent of David, judging, and seeking justice, and swift to do righteousness.

Is this speaking about something eschatological, when Christ returns? Is it about warfare, and fugitives from war?

I doubt that this really addresses the USA issue.

 

[Atwood]

My wife is an Hispanic immigrant -- came legally long ago.

There are a number of issues here.
This is an IMHO:

1) Property rights. Most of us think we can put a fence up around our property & lock our doors justly vs intruders. Does that apply to nations? Do the citizens of the USA rightly own this territory like their home? Do they have the right to say who gets to enter? Or should there be no border control, just free movement of people?

2) History is full of migrations and mass movements of people; new people supplanting old, pushing them aside; like the North Europeans did to the native "Indians" of the USA.

3) Borders always change. There used to be this Soviet Union, which broke up. Mexico used to include California & Texas (for only a few years after Spain was overthrown in Western Hemisphere).

4) Christians are told to be strangers & pilgrims, I think, to avoid becoming combatants in the wars of this world.

5) Right before our eyes I think we may be seeing this land (in the process of Lev 18) vomiting out the inhabitants for the grossness of their sin. The northern European descendants are not reproducing themselves, but slaughtering their babies in the womb. My own neighborhood was predominately European ancestry when I moved in; now it must be 90 percent Hispanic. Today is quite different from historic immigration; now we have TV & Radio stations in Spanish.

6) The Tower of Babel indicates that people who don't speak the same language will not get along and will divide from each other.

7) The USA does not have the focused will to stop the southern invasion. While we talk, they are swarming across like ants. I don't see anyone stopping it. They could minimize it with strong fences/walls/ road/ towers/blimps/drones/technological sensors/soldiers -- but the country lacks the will.

8) I am busy trying to improve my Spanish. I regularly visit a Spanish speaking church. I speak Spanish with my auto mechanic.

9) It is possible that the Hispanic immigration might be harnessed to vote out baby-murder by abortion. But I don't think the Republicrats care enough to try this strategy.

10) The immigrants are not leaving, and they will get the right to vote.

11) These children are a great treasure & may replace murdered babies a little. (I mean I doubt that the 1000's of children coming across the border -- modern Children's Crusade -- will be enough to replace millions of murdered babies; but they may help.)

12) Probably this immigration will cause an increase in idolatry & witchcraft.

13) Does this present good opportunities for evangelism?

 

[SonInMe]

''The kids who are coming here now, that are causing the main issue are trying to flee persecution and even death. To just send them back to that situation would be against God.''

Where is the proof they were fleeing persecution? The trials for these kids have not even taken place and you have judged them...all....to be persecuted children.

This fiasco at the border is what happens when you have a president who cares more about politics than he does about chgildren. They are there by his invitation and lack of understanding of what a president is. His ignorance and ideology have placed many children in harms path in their long journey to our country.

The problem is our president who has no clue what being president really is.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Are you sure you want to go forward? Debating me is like debating a force of nature... lol.

Let me prime the pump to start it. The UCI Center for Research on Immigration, Population and Public Policy recently produced a study which showed that the vast majority of illegal alien minors and also most of the children of illegal aliens willingly choose to drop out of school.

That's right. I just said the vast majority as in most. Can you guess what a good share of them do after they drop out? Allow me to give you a hint:

"Criminal gangs in the USA have swelled to an estimated 1 million members responsible for up to 80% of crimes in communities across the nation, according to a gang threat assessment compiled by federal officials."

FBI: Burgeoning gangs behind up to 80% of U.S. crime - USATODAY.com

"The Center for Immigration Studies reported the growth of gang activity is directly related to the growth of illegal immigration. In fact, the most rapidly-expanding gangs are primarily immigrant-based. Up to 90 percent of some gang membership is illegal alien. Many gangs are already playing pivotal roles alongside drug cartels, in some cases acting as frontline offense as they make their way into the United States. The bottom line is that the United States cannot stop the spread of dangerous gangs into our neighborhoods without addressing immigration. More enforcement and state/local cooperation with federal agencies is imperative. Conversely, anything that amounts to an 'amnesty' would only benefit the gangs and facilitate more crime."

Gangs responsible for 80% of crime? | Center for Immigration Studies

What you're advocating is for a nation that's almost $20 trillion in debt, running a massive increasing annual deficit already dominated by welfare programs, with the worst domestic labor market since the Great Depression to add to their welfare rolls a demographic that is presently feeding criminal gangs responsible for 80% of the crime in the U.S. and propagating cartel violence all over the U.S..

That kind of irresponsible lawlessness doesn't sound like something Jesus would enable to me.

That sounds likes something you, in your ignorance, do enable (noting that you are hypocritically advocating the government force others to pay for what you are not paying for yourself).

So what if you have feelings when those feelings result in innocent American citizens being murdered, robbed, assaulted, dealt dope to, etc... while they are forcibly taxed by an economically indebted government depriving their own children of their dreams and aspirations. Jesus wouldn't cosign that.

If you want to become a missionary and go to their countries of origin and help them sort out their problems, that's great. I think Jesus would support that. Adios.

If I could take some in I would. It is not love like God told us to have for others if you send them back just to be beat up and slaughtered.

 

[SonInMe]

All of immigration needs to be reformed. If they are coming here just to live better and by making more money then they do need to be made to take the steps to come legally, and then when they do get here legally they need to be treated no different than any other American. Not given special grants or tax breaks that we don't get.

But if they are fleeing persecution and death, then we should take them in legal or not to protect them. And before we send them back need to develop, like I have heard from others, a safe zone for them to live in.

A naive position.

Immigration is much more about politics and blame and votes than it has anything to do with helping people.

If the left truly wanted to help these illegal immigrants then why give them amnisty and just make them legal? Because they want the republicans to make a stand against immigration so they can blame them for it, in the next elections.

Might be nice of caring for people is what out government does but the truth is...

government could care less about people and...

NEVER HAS. Government is there to control people.

 

[SonInMe]

Politicians don't want to do either because if they do the first then they'll be seen as being too soft on immigration and alienate voters. If they do the second then they'll lose their cheap help.

Lower minimum wage then.

 

[SonInMe]

Tell you what, we'll send them all over to your house. I hope you have enough beans and rice.

Charity is not the rich's responsibility? Those evil rich white married conservative christian men??

Whodathunk

 

[SonInMe]

The gang violence is so bad down there that it makes the worse gang violence we have here in America look like child's play.
All the kids are forced to join gangs, or be beaten or killed if refuse.

Where is the proof of this?

 

[SonInMe]

Why did Obama pervert the law on child immigration due to persecutions and slavery?

Imagine the political windfall he will get if republicans say these kids have to go back. We have seen the naive reactions and the worship of compassion right here in this thread....

the republican party will be vilified in the media if they even suggest upholding the law and sending these kids back......because I believe if their trials are fair, they will not be found to be the persecuted children that the law pertains to.

This has absolutely nothing to do with hurt kids...other than our president's invitation for them to come has hurt many of them.

Its plain ol' politics. Kinda makes ya sick when a president puts the lives of kids on the line to get some votes.

Disgusting

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Yes, there are a number of issues here:

1) The right for nations and national borders to both exist and be enforced is supported in scripture. Ancient Israel rigorously defended their national borders and did so in a land that God gave them which was not theirs to start with. Additionally, ancient Israel had very tough illegal alien laws which they also rigorously enforced. Of course, they were accepting of visiting foreigners who legally visited and those who immigrated legally but both groups were expected to abide under ancient Israel’s laws and respect its customs with visitors (e.g. sojourners) receiving basic justice but not the full privileges of an Israelite. Jesus never spoke against ancient Israel's right to exist, their border security, or their national immigration system: not once.

2) Help Fix America First: Immigration

3) Borders change when a nation becomes weakened to the point they either implode as the Soviet Union did, are taken over as occurred with the ancient Roman Empire (and now the U.S.), or subverted within (see the fall of Constantinople). Obviously, this can be prevented by making better choices which result in more desirable outcomes.

For example, massive waves of immigrants invaded the Roman Empire in the fourth century which ultimately led to the fall of Rome. Pagans wrongly blamed the fall on Christians but St. Augustine wrote the City of God asserting that Christians were not to blame and that Christians should defend Rome against foreign invasions both within and from without. After the Muslims invaded and conquered southern Europe (engaging in horrendous acts of democide, human enslavement, rape, etc...) the very Christian Charles "the hammer" Martel took St Augustine's advice to heart and marched against the Muslims defeating them at the Battle of Tours finally turning the tide and saving Christianized Europe in the process. His actions resulted in a new Holy Roman Empire that brought enlightenment, classical liberalism, modern science, etc... ALL of the things we enjoy today. If it weren't for Christian men like him, instead of people like you who make excuses, you'd be bowing five times a day to Allah under sharia and very likely as a castrated slave. I'll be happy to explain why that is to you if you like.

4) Christians are taught to be a great many things, all of them good. We are taught to be salt and light and stand against immorality, irresponsibility, evil, and spiritual wickedness. We are taught to put God's de jure authority above the de facto authority of government. We are not taught to enable the subversion and destruction of the nations we live in.

5) I don't have a problem with Hispanics. I have a problem with allowing people to bypass our nation's immigration system which was designed to enculturate them into the fabric of our society so that they would be productive citizens influenced by the worldview this nation was founded on (e.g. decidedly Christian worldview). Allowing them to simply violate our border laws, live off the welfare of a heavily indebted nation dominated by welfare programs, forgo the process of enculturation altogether, and feed violent criminal gangs as proxies for the criminal cartels of their respective countries (the nations they cowardly fled but identify with anyways go figure) victimizing us.

6) The Tower of Babel indicates that people who don't speak the same language will not get along and will divide from each other. <-- true statement. Peace is not found in heterogeneity. Being unable to communicate does not make us all stronger as so many Democrats believe. See: http://christianchat.com/christian-...ns-door-muslim-immigration-5.html#post1580225 and http://christianchat.com/christian-...ns-door-muslim-immigration-5.html#post1582276 and http://christianchat.com/christian-...ns-door-muslim-immigration-5.html#post1582278

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

While a large part of the U.S. are so poor they are struggling to feed their children, Obama was going to buy luxury hotels at about $50 million a pop and put the illegal aliens in luxury accommodations and hire gobblement workers at up to $65 an hour to take care of them and pass the bill onto the poor Americans:

Fed-backed group drops plan to buy fancy hotel to house illegals | Fox News

Why did Obama pervert the law on child immigration due to persecutions and slavery?

Imagine the political windfall he will get if republicans say these kids have to go back. We have seen the naive reactions and the worship of compassion right here in this thread....

the republican party will be vilified in the media if they even suggest upholding the law and sending these kids back......because I believe if their trials are fair, they will not be found to be the persecuted children that the law pertains to.

This has absolutely nothing to do with hurt kids...other than our president's invitation for them to come has hurt many of them.

Its plain ol' politics. Kinda makes ya sick when a president puts the lives of kids on the line to get some votes.

Disgusting

 

[Tintin]

Ken,
Let's be fair. The USA accepts more immigrants than any country in the world. We can't save the world.

Are you sure about that? Judging by population, Australia has quite a few immigrants.

 

[biscuit]

Are you sure about that? Judging by population, Australia has quite a few immigrants.

Yes, I google it before posting.

 

[biscuit]

[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter, width: 0"]
[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Country[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Number of immigrants[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Percentage of
total number of
immigrants
in the world[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Immigrants as
percentage of
national population[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

United States[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]45,785,090[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Russia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,048,064[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Germany[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9,845,244[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4.3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Saudi Arabia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9,060,433[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]31.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

United Arab Emirates[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7,826,981[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]83.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

United Kingdom[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7,824,131[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7,439,086[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Canada[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7,284,069[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Australia[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6,468,640[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This is for 2013

 

[pastac]

Charity is not the rich's responsibility? Those evil rich white married conservative christian men??

Whodathunk

This fiasco at the border is what happens when you have a president who cares more about politics than he does about chgildren. They are there by his invitation and lack of understanding of what a president is. His ignorance and ideology have placed many children in harms path in their long journey to our country.

The problem is our president who has no clue what being president really is.

Why did Obama pervert the law on child immigration due to persecutions and slavery?

Imagine the political windfall he will get if republicans say these kids have to go back. We have seen the naive reactions and the worship of compassion right here in this thread....

the republican party will be vilified in the media if they even suggest upholding the law and sending these kids back......because I believe if their trials are fair, they will not be found to be the persecuted children that the law pertains to.

This has absolutely nothing to do with hurt kids...other than our president's invitation for them to come has hurt many of them.

Its plain ol' politics. Kinda makes ya sick when a president puts the lives of kids on the line to get some votes.

Disgusting

Son in me back at it again! Everything wrong in America is not the fault of this President and his policies! Facts you vehemently want to deny. It is true some of the policies are baffling but the problems existed long before now! So I guess you take the Garvey methodology of thinking into account, Send them all back to where they came from. ok Lets do that with everyone in America and see what's left! politics aside.

Lets just botaem ,floatem. flyem all back to where they came from. ALL OF THEM! That's just how foolish most of your statements sound and lead to if you are leading. I don't know, you just may be that disconnected from the rest of the real world. In either respect you really need to get a grip. I pray I'm around to see your responses to the next President you sure have no respect for this one. So tell us all please since you have a clue as to what a President is tell us all! Share you vast political Presidential knowledge with us all!

 

[p_rehbein]

Actually, immigration isn't that big of a deal at all.............now ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...........that's different........