Michigan Opens Door to Muslim Immigration

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#41
Sadly though the extremists are the truest muslims. And it is not just jihadist factions spreading the blight of Islam, look at their clerics, look at their Kings, look at their protests, look at their systems of torture and execution. None of it is political, it is all based off of Islam.

Here is 164 verses about the concept of Jihad and how it is a command of Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CosyH5SPLts
[video=youtube;CosyH5SPLts]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CosyH5SPLts[/video]

It is not the people that are the problem, it is Islam. Just the same it is not the American people that are the problem, it is Democrazy and those who are trying to spread the failed system of Democrazy to the rest of the world (ie: Iraq, Vietnam, etc.) As for Afghanistan, that is a different case. Firstly, Afghan War was of retribution since Osama bin Laden attacked America first as a matter of jihad. Behold many Americans still cannot even accept this fact even today. Perhaps this is also why the Pakistani government blatantly sheltered Osama and provides support to the Taliban jihadist faction. Of course the US only made things worse because instead of tackling the real problem of Islam, the US tried to give Afghanistan Democrazy. As a result America is defeated and Afghanistan will be a jihadist hell on earth for many years to come.

It's a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless, unless you stop Islam, this wave of jihad and islamic violence will only wax hotter across the face of Earth. Behold it is all ready happening.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#42
Sadly though the extremists are the truest muslims. And it is not just jihadist factions spreading the blight of Islam, look at their clerics, look at their Kings, look at their protests, look at their systems of torture and execution. None of it is political, it is all based off of Islam.

Here is 164 verses about the concept of Jihad and how it is a command of Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CosyH5SPLts
[video=youtube;CosyH5SPLts]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CosyH5SPLts[/video]

It is not the people that are the problem, it is Islam. Just the same it is not the American people that are the problem, it is Democrazy and those who are trying to spread the failed system of Democrazy to the rest of the world (ie: Iraq, Vietnam, etc.) As for Afghanistan, that is a different case. Firstly, Afghan War was of retribution since Osama bin Laden attacked America first as a matter of jihad. Behold many Americans still cannot even accept this fact even today. Perhaps this is also why the Pakistani government blatantly sheltered Osama and provides support to the Taliban jihadist faction. Of course the US only made things worse because instead of tackling the real problem of Islam, the US tried to give Afghanistan Democrazy. As a result America is defeated and Afghanistan will be a jihadist hell on earth for many years to come.

It's a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless, unless you stop Islam, this wave of jihad and islamic violence will only wax hotter across the face of Earth. Behold it is all ready happening.
Hi S

Have you ever asked yourself when they are giving examples to explain Islam, why they don't even show the whole verse ?

The very first verse of the video for example.

...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain...

The rest of the verse speaks of the punishment for murder. An eye for an eye but there is a twist. The family decides the fate and can forgive. It is a reference to criminal law. What is wrong with that ?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,982
8,688
113
#43
Prove it. You can't.
Ah but we can!


Brought to you from the religion of pieces!!!!

[video=youtube;qZ-QX8LuKHA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-QX8LuKHA[/video]
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,982
8,688
113
#44
Tolerance and acceptance of individuals irrespective of personal perspectives is the basis of a peaceful, pluralistic, and ultimately free civilization. You aren't required to "accept" Islam as a religion simply by allowing adherents of Islam to share your society. By extension, should Muslims that already exist in the United States suffer deportations simply because of what they choose to believe in? Do you have any conception as to the utterly vast ramifications this would have as far as a religious preference's influence on public policy in general?

Beyond the fact that immigration restrictions on the basis of a religious preference blatantly defy the First Amendment, it's utterly impossible to consistently argue any sort of coherent policy concerning a religious preference's contingent influence on what constitutes acceptable immigration. It's arbitrary, unconstitutional, and simply immoral.
Tolerance and acceptance ya say. Hmm.. Double dog dare you to try and read this list of Islamic "tolerance" of others.
THIS LIST IS ONLY FOR THE PAST 30 DAYS!
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#45
Hi S

Have you ever asked yourself when they are giving examples to explain Islam, why they don't even show the whole verse ?

The very first verse of the video for example.

...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain...

The rest of the verse speaks of the punishment for murder. An eye for an eye but there is a twist. The family decides the fate and can forgive. It is a reference to criminal law. What is wrong with that ?
You should let God deal with anyone who transgresses agaisnt you I believe.

Do non-muslims have the same rights under such laws as muslims under Islam? Or are the unbelievers reckoned as sub-human animals, the worst of creatures and the vilest of animals?
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,063
1,498
113
#46
Christians pervert Christianity, no other religion can change another religion without the permission. We as people pervert the message of Christ by not paying attention to what the bible says as opposed to what we think or feel is right. We are the ones who have messed things up. Islam, Buddhism, Atheism, etc haven't done anything to remove the Christian voice. Christians over the centuries have turned their ear to the easier things, to the easier way of life. And yes, we as citizens of America are allowed to worship in any way we choose. That's what this country was founded on. It wasn't founded on Christian principles! This country may have been Christian dominated at one time, but it wasn't founded to be a Christian country. If you disagree with me, do a bit of research. The old stories of how America was/is a great Christian nation is propaganda.
I agree that Christians (call themselves by the name) pervert Christianity. I don't argue against any religion's right to practice in America. I'm not here to argue history with anyone. When the Christian message is removed from the public, and replaced with the messages of others, the Government is endorsing the other messengers. Yes, there is a scripted attempt by others (by declaring themselves to be a non religion) to pervert Christianity. Will it succeed? I pray not.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#47
It should be obvious that the presence of diametrically opposed worldviews results in increased conflict often presenting as inherent struggle for supremacy (one need only read any scholarly book on world history to discover this) just as a diversity of languages does not enhance communications.

The founding fathers were almost all Protestant Christians from the three largest Christian traditions of colonial America:

1. Anglicanism (as in the cases of John Jay, George Washington, and Edward Rutledge).
2. Presbyterianism (as in the cases of Richard Stockton and the Rev. John Witherspoon).
3. Congregationalism (as in the cases of John Adams and Samuel Adams).

Other Protestant groups included the Society of Friends (Quakers), the Lutherans, and the Dutch Reformed. Minority positions included three Roman Catholics (Charles Carroll, Daniel Carroll of Maryland, and Thomas Fitzsimmons of Pennsylvania) and a few deists with Thomas Paine being the most prominent. Not one was a Muslim, atheist, or pagan.

According to the founding fathers, the United States should be a country where peoples of all faiths could live in peace and mutual benefit. But what they meant by "faiths" was decidedly Christian faiths.

As Bill Flax notes:

"All thought the Bible essential for just and harmonious society. The Founders disagreed on much, but were nearly unanimous concerning biblical morality.

They understood the relationship between state and society differently than progressive thinkers today: government cannot mold man. Righteous men must mold government which requires the inculcation of virtue through vibrant churches and the transmittal of values generationally via a social structure based on families. Jefferson ’s 'wall of separation' guarded faith, or lack thereof, against political interference."

Far from uprooting our Christian moorings, the Forefathers embraced their Christian heritage. Historian Larry Schweikart notes, “The founding documents of every one of the original thirteen colonies reveal them to be awash in the concepts of Christianity and God.” Youth learned to read using Scripture. Universities were chartered to teach doctrine. Students could not even enter Harvard, Yale or Princeton without assenting to the Westminster Confession.

John Adams noted, “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity.”

Per Paul Johnson, “The Declaration of Independence was, to those who signed it, a religious as well as a secular act, and the Revolutionary War has the approbation of divine providence.” The Declaration contains four clear references to God. Independence was predicated on the “laws of nature and nature’s God” because men are “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.” The Continental Congress thought success dependent on “the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions” to whom they relied on for “the protection of divine Providence.”

Secularists claim designations like “laws of nature” evidences Deism, not Christianity. But that phrase also appears in the quintessential statement of Protestant faith, the Westminster Confession, where “light of nature,” meaning the same, appears repeatedly.

John Locke, whose influence was indisputable, clarified that natural rights need to “be conformable to the Law of Nature, i.e., to the will of God.” And that legislation must be “without contradiction to any positive law of Scripture, otherwise they are ill made.”

Blackstone’s Commentaries, a pivotal support for America’s common law system, rests upon both sources for truth in Christian thinking. There is “special revelation” in the Holy Scriptures and “general revelation” of a complex, yet sublime world working according to an ordered design subject to discoverable natural laws."

So while the United States was not founded as a Christian theocracy, it was comprised of Christians who intended for the Christian worldview to be indelible to our social fabric and the founders, even the few non-Christians in the U.S. at the time, considered that a blessing.

This cooperation between the Christian worldview and state is referred to by U.S. historians as Jeffersonianism. By basing government in natural, universal, moral law, Jeffersonianism avoids antinomianism (secularism) on the one hand and state-mandated religion (reconstructionism) on the other.

Quoting Dave Miller PhD:

The Founders would never have favored integrating Islam into our schools, government, and other civil institutions. Far from it. In his discussion of freedom of religion in his monumental Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, Father of American Jurisprudence Joseph Story clarified the meaning of the First Amendment with regard to the priority of Christianity:

"It is impossible for those, who believe in the truth of Christianity, as a divine revelation, to doubt, that it is the especial duty of government to foster, and encourage it among all the citizens and subjects. Indeed, in a republic, there would seem to be a peculiar propriety in viewing the Christian religion, as the great basis, on which it must rest for its support and permanence, if it be, what it has ever been deemed by its truest friends to be, the religion of liberty."

Probably at the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation (1833, 44.723-726.3.3.1865-1868, emp. added).

Indeed, the First Amendment was never intended to “level all religions.” Story further explained that:

"the real object of the First amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government" (1833, 3:728, emp. added).

One must not misconstrue the Founders’ strong emphasis on religious freedom and tolerance as an indication that they viewed all religion as legitimate or conducive to the principles of the Republic. Their central concern was “disestablishment,” i.e., preventing the federal government from establishing one Christian sect as the state religion. Their idea of “freedom of religion” was first and foremost freedom to pursue the Christian religion unhindered by the federal government, and only secondarily freedom to practice non-Christian religion.

This truth is verified by the discussions surrounding the wording of the First Amendment. George Mason—who has gone down in American history as the Father of the Bill of Rights—proposed the following wording:

“All men have an equal, natural and unalienable right to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that no particular sect or society of Christians ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others” (as quoted in Rowland, 1892, 1:244, emp. added).

While Mason’s proposal did not make the final cut, it nevertheless establishes the historical context of the Founders’ discussion, demonstrating that their concern was first and foremost for the free exercise of the Christian religion.

Miller continued here: Apologetics Press - Were the Founding Fathers "Tolerant" of Islam? [Part I]

Even though you believe them, your assertions are false.


Tolerance and acceptance of individuals irrespective of personal perspectives is the basis of a peaceful, pluralistic, and ultimately free civilization. You aren't required to "accept" Islam as a religion simply by allowing adherents of Islam to share your society. By extension, should Muslims that already exist in the United States suffer deportations simply because of what they choose to believe in? Do you have any conception as to the utterly vast ramifications this would have as far as a religious preference's influence on public policy in general?

Beyond the fact that immigration restrictions on the basis of a religious preference blatantly defy the First Amendment, it's utterly impossible to consistently argue any sort of coherent policy concerning a religious preference's contingent influence on what constitutes acceptable immigration. It's arbitrary, unconstitutional, and simply immoral.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#48
"Americans' approval of President Barack Obama's handling of immigration has dropped to 31%, one of the lowest readings since 2010, when Gallup began polling on his handling of the issue. Meanwhile, two in three Americans (65%) disapprove of his handling of immigration."

Approval of Obama's Handling of Immigration Falls to 31%
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#50
To get back specifically to muslim immigration to Michigan. It's not my state, but I say let it be, but it is imperative that the government is scrutinous who it lets in from around the globe in this current time era, is it not? What use is it to bring our muslim brothers out of jihadist oppression only for jihadists to come along and do unto Boston and New York and Washington DC what they do unto the lands under the shadow?

I think many muslims if given a chance to live in a more peaceful land and be at peace and have freedom at least to learn about Jesus who is the Christ then it is good, so be it.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#51
You should let God deal with anyone who transgresses agaisnt you I believe.

Do non-muslims have the same rights under such laws as muslims under Islam? Or are the unbelievers reckoned as sub-human animals, the worst of creatures and the vilest of animals?
So you want to live in a country where murderers go free ?

I think it is time for a history lesson.

In 638, just a few years after the death of the Prophet pbuh, an army of his followers surrounded Jerusalem. The city Patriarch, Sophronius, handed over the city after a brief siege. There was only one condition; that the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Khalif of Islam.
‘Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their possessions. Those who wanted to stay were guaranteed protection for their lives, their property, and their places of worship in the ‘Umariyya Covenant.


For the first time in its long history, Jerusalem had been spared a bloodbath.


It is said that ‘Umar accompanied Sophronious to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and that he was offered a place to pray in it. ‘Umar declined, fearing it might establish a precedent which would threaten the church’s continued use as a Christian house of worship. He prayed instead to the south of the church, now the site of the Mosque of ‘Umar in Jerusalem.


‘Umar then asked to be taken to the site of Al Aqsa Mosque. Accompanied by hundreds of Muslims, to his disappointment he found the area covered in dust and debris. The Bishop took him to the site (known to the Jews as Temple Mount), which to Umar’s disappointment was being used as a garbage dump. This is because under the Christian rule at that time,Jews were not allowed to worship or even enter Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa site.


On seeing the state of the Al-Aqsa site, Umar said:


“Allah (God) is Great, I swear by the one who holds my soul in his hand that this is the Mosque of David which the prophet of Allah described to us after his night journey.”


A huge timber mosque which held three thousand worshippers was erected on this site in the time of ‘Umar, at the southernmost wall of the Noble Sanctuary.

Umar Al Khattab allowed the Jews back into Jerusalem and allowed them access to the temple mount which the Christians of that time used as a rubbish dump. The place where Jesus chased the money changers out with a stick was used as a rubbish dump. Do you see the irony ?

Gil, Moshe (1997). A History of Palestine, 634–1099. Cambridge, United Kingdom: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-59984-9. Page 51 and 54

The liberation of Jerusalem from oppression. The word oppression was the word used by Moshe Gil.
 
Last edited:

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#52
In 1391, many Jews were forced to convert to Catholicism. The converted Jews remained in Spain and were called conversos or Marranos , the Spanish word for pigs. These New Christians could not openly practice Judaism without fear of persecution.

In the late 15 th Century King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella wed, uniting the kingdoms of Castille and Aragon. It wasn’t long before they took back the last remaining Moorish Kingdom of Granada in the south. Devout Christians, the King and Queen could not tolerate non-believers in their kingdom. It was in the Alhambra that their edict expelling the Jews from Christian Spain in 1492 was signed. Jews had to convert to Christianity or leave the country.

Jews who left Spain fled mainly to the Islamic countries that bordered the Mediterranean Sea. They went to Italy, North Africa, Palestine and to the area we now know as Syria, which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire and whose rulers welcomed the Jews with open arms. Some went to Portugal, but were later expelled.

The Jews of Aleppo
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#53
So you want to live in a country where murderers go free ?

I think it is time for a history lesson.

In 638, just a few years after the death of the Prophet pbuh, an army of his followers surrounded Jerusalem. The city Patriarch, Sophronius, handed over the city after a brief siege. There was only one condition; that the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Khalif of Islam.
‘Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their possessions. Those who wanted to stay were guaranteed protection for their lives, their property, and their places of worship in the ‘Umariyya Covenant.


For the first time in its long history, Jerusalem had been spared a bloodbath.


It is said that ‘Umar accompanied Sophronious to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and that he was offered a place to pray in it. ‘Umar declined, fearing it might establish a precedent which would threaten the church’s continued use as a Christian house of worship. He prayed instead to the south of the church, now the site of the Mosque of ‘Umar in Jerusalem.


‘Umar then asked to be taken to the site of Al Aqsa Mosque. Accompanied by hundreds of Muslims, to his disappointment he found the area covered in dust and debris. The Bishop took him to the site (known to the Jews as Temple Mount), which to Umar’s disappointment was being used as a garbage dump. This is because under the Christian rule at that time,Jews were not allowed to worship or even enter Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa site.


On seeing the state of the Al-Aqsa site, Umar said:


“Allah (God) is Great, I swear by the one who holds my soul in his hand that this is the Mosque of David which the prophet of Allah described to us after his night journey.”


A huge timber mosque which held three thousand worshippers was erected on this site in the time of ‘Umar, at the southernmost wall of the Noble Sanctuary.

Umar Al Khattab allowed the Jews back into Jerusalem and allowed them access to the temple mount which the Christians of that time used as a rubbish dump. The place where Jesus chased the money changers out with a stick was used as a rubbish dump. Do you see the irony ?
1. Lol I live in a world where murderers go free.

2. Ah as it is written, every stone here shall not be found one on top of the other.

Al-Aqsa Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The al-Aqsa Mosque is located on the Temple Mount, referred to by Muslims today as the "Haram al-Sharif" ("The Noble Sanctuary"), an enclosure expanded by King Herod the Great beginning in 20 BCE. The mosque resides on an artificial platform that is supported by arches constructed by Herod's engineers to overcome the difficult topographic conditions resulting from the southward expansion of the enclosure into the Tyropoeon and Kidron valleys. At the time of the Second Temple, the present site of the mosque was occupied by the Royal Stoa, a basilica running the southern wall of the enclosure.[SUP][6][/SUP] The Royal Stoa was destroyed along with the Temple during the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. Emperor Justinian built a Christian church on the site in the 530s which was consecrated to the Virgin Mary and named "Church of Our Lady." The church was later destroyed by Khosrau II, the Sassanid emperor, in the early 7th century and left in ruins.[SUP][7][/SUP]
Analysis of the wooden beams and panels removed from the mosque during renovations in the 1930s shows they are made from Cedar of Lebanon and cypress. Radiocarbon dating indicates a large range of ages, some as old as 9th-century BCE, showing that some of the wood had previously been used in older buildings.[SUP][8][/SUP]
In 2012, it was reported that Robert Hamilton, an archaeologist who worked on the Temple Mount after the 1927 Jericho earthquake, had discovered remains under al-Aqsa mosque that he did not publish in his book on the excavations. These included a mosaic like those used in Byzantine churches, and a Jewish mikveh from the second temple period.[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP]
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#54
This is cultural rather than islamic. Christians and Jewish communities also perform it.


Male and Female Circumcision in the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Communities: Religious Debateby Doctor Sami Aldeeb Abu-Sahlieh

In the past, they placed the blame for the circumcision of females on the Arabs and Islam. This was done for political reasons: to prove that the Arabs were barbaric for cutting off womens' clitorises. I was surprised to hear the health minister of Egypt repeat the rumor that the circumcision of girls is an African practice. I also heard some doctor s repeat this same belief in an attempt to remove the blame from the Egyptians and place in on the black Africans. However, this book proves the falsehood of this notion by explaining how the circumcisions of girls and boys gathered momentum in societies such as Jewish, Christians, Muslims, blacks and whites in the East and West.

FGC Education and Networking Project
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#55
In 1391, many Jews were forced to convert to Catholicism. The converted Jews remained in Spain and were called conversos or Marranos , the Spanish word for pigs. These New Christians could not openly practice Judaism without fear of persecution.

In the late 15 th Century King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella wed, uniting the kingdoms of Castille and Aragon. It wasn’t long before they took back the last remaining Moorish Kingdom of Granada in the south. Devout Christians, the King and Queen could not tolerate non-believers in their kingdom. It was in the Alhambra that their edict expelling the Jews from Christian Spain in 1492 was signed. Jews had to convert to Christianity or leave the country.

Jews who left Spain fled mainly to the Islamic countries that bordered the Mediterranean Sea. They went to Italy, North Africa, Palestine and to the area we now know as Syria, which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire and whose rulers welcomed the Jews with open arms. Some went to Portugal, but were later expelled.

The Jews of Aleppo
Aye indeed and good history indeed. However brother, the story goes on. Know ye not that soon thereafter the Spanish Empire which was the top empire of the day was suddenly defeated by Britain's Virgin Queen and sunk into the oblivion of history thereafter?
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#57
Aye indeed and good history indeed. However brother, the story goes on. Know ye not that soon thereafter the Spanish Empire which was the top empire of the day was suddenly defeated by Britain's Virgin Queen and sunk into the oblivion of history thereafter?
You stated jihad verses I answered you. You asked my how non Muslims are treated so I answered you Now you want to change the subject yet again ? :)
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#58
You stated jihad verses I answered you. You asked my how non Muslims are treated so I answered you Now you want to change the subject yet again ? :)
This is subtle brother and I know you just mean well because you do not want to cause shirk against Islam for fear. Understand, I strive not against muslims, but against Islam. However, I did not ask how muslims should treat non-muslims. I asked if non-muslims have the same rights as muslims under Islam.

My question is more legalistic. Do I as a non-believer in the recitation by a suspicous being to Mohammad have a sort of citizenship status similar to a muslim under Islam or am I a sub-human that you may enslave , kill, or be merciful to at your pleasure?

From my point of view you and me are brothers via Adam at the minimum, but it seems this is not the point of view of Islam if I am to believe Islam looking at all the nations and factions with a strict conservative islamic government and law set up.

EDIT: Also fair enough I did change the subject back to muslims immigrating to Michigan, which I support but believe we must screen for jihadists. Again, what good is it to save people only to have them terrorized by the same people from there but over here? Lol however you digressed me back into history mode lol, so just giving you my perspective on Spain's notorious past and fall lol. History is epic though, not to be too racist but I always enjoy middle eastern folk, muslim, christian, jew, or whatever as they are all very keen on history.
 
Last edited:
X

xgbnow

Guest
#59
We are a Country that is supposed to be primarily Christian. Did you forget that ?
Are you a Christian ? Do you believe Jesus Christ came as our Sacrificial Lamb,
nailed to the Cross, shed His Blood so we can be Christian, by receiving Him as
our Savior? Do you believe in the need of repentance? Do you believe Christ is
Prince of Peace ? If you are Christian and believe in Christ as Savior, you can
understand where we stand when we refuse to accept religions outside of Jesus
Christ. That is why we take a stand for our Lord and refuse to accept any other
gods.
Gid himself gives us all a choice. Our nation is based on freedpm of religion, I would want it no other way. Do you want someone telling you how to practice your faith? Do you want to the government telling you how to practice your faith? There is not even one faith within the christian community, we divide ourselves among denominations. We should be free to practice our faith as we see fit.

Tolerance does not mean that we compromise our standards. We cannot compromise the word of God. However, we can tolerate others and thier beliefs.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#60
Perhaps Umar ibn Al-Khattāb (579 CE - 644 CE) was too busy murdering Hindus Drett. Alain Danielou in his book, Histoire de l' Inde writes:

"From the time Muslims started arriving, around 632 AD, the history of India becomes a long, monotonous series of murders, massacres, spoliations, and destructions. It is, as usual, in the name of 'a holy war' of their faith, of their sole God, that the barbarians have destroyed civilizations, wiped out entire races."

The American historian Will Durant summed up Muslim negation of Hindus in India like this:

"The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."

And, of course, Umar's attacks against the Sassanid Persian Empire and Byzantine empire are well documented. According to one estimate more than 4050 cities were captured during military conquest by the sword under Umar.

He was pretty much the opposite of the peacenik 60's hippy you are making him out to be. But at least the plague slowed him down a bit as did:

[video=youtube_share;-CcpkUQRVbc]http://youtu.be/-CcpkUQRVbc[/video]



I think it is time for a history lesson.

In 638, just a few years after the death of the Prophet pbuh, an army of his followers surrounded Jerusalem. The city Patriarch, Sophronius, handed over the city after a brief siege. There was only one condition; that the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Khalif of Islam.
‘Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their possessions. Those who wanted to stay were guaranteed protection for their lives, their property, and their places of worship in the ‘Umariyya Covenant.


For the first time in its long history, Jerusalem had been spared a bloodbath.