Minnesota Shooting (Lets Start Over)

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HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
2,316
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#21
I'd like to chime in if I may. I am a black woman and I'm saddened by what is going on today. I have said this countless of times amoung my offline friends, there is a problem in the black community. SOME of the young people have no respect for anyone, black white green or blue. They are fighting turf wars in areas where they parents own not building there.

They are shooting and killing each other. The other day a group of high school boys opened fire at a hotel. WHY? What did someone do to you that bad that deserves to be shot. I don't understand and my heart hurts. I own my own home, I forgot to lock my truck to find in the morning that my truck had been ransacked. Everything was in the car seat. mind you, a person has to walk down my driveway and to the back of my house to do that. Lights are on outside, motion lights. porch lights and the lights come on in the truck when the door opens.

I was angry, what gives you the right to go into my personal space and violate my property. Get a job even if it's at Mcdonalds and buy what you want. I worked hard for what I have. I live in a decent quiet area and they come into neighbors and do their bidding.

I am a mother of a 27 year old man. My ONLY son and child.

I was raised in the south although now I no longer live there. I was raised with morals and respect. I worked while in high school and I worked and went to college at the same time. I raised my son to have respect for others and most of all respect for himself. He's never been arrested and never gave me a bit of trouble, other than the typical kid stuff. :D

My heart is heavy and I apologise if I was mean or hurtful in anyway yesterday.

I am tired ya'll tired of all of the killings what happened to those officers was savage. I still believe that the man in Lousiana and minnesota didn't have to die the way that they did. I don't think ALL cops are bad, I think that something should be done about the bad ones.

You cannot see color and be in position of authority being biased against any ethnicity. If you are you cannot do your job well.


I hope you all can understand where I am coming from.

Peace

Forgive my long winded comment. :D
 
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Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#22
All seemingly accurate and I agree with your assessments.

The guy got himself shot because he triggered an alert situation, and the officer was overly reactive from that point on. Not a time at all for a detainee to be doing dumb things like reaching for anything.


One question that has bugged me from the beginning is that I think we are all getting very used to inciting people starting their videos before an arresting officer (that means one who stops you) even comes close to the car. He is on camera from the first, so that we can all hear the excess use of an exaggerated use of "Sir" repeatedly uttered by the "victims."

But not an instant of that kind of almost standard response is recorded here. Or, WAS it recorded, and not shown..... erased, to start over, only after the guy got shot?
There was something odd about Miss Reynold's behavior and how the video was produced. But I can understand how being jawed at by a police officer and seeing your boyfriend getting swisscheesed would make you act a little off-kilter.

I just know that if my girlfriend were shot four times I would ask the officer to lower his weapon so I could at least make her last moments on earth pleasant.
 
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Church2u2

Guest
#23
I live in a mixed neighborhood but there is a housing project in my hood that is predominantly black..and it's like a small city unto itself. .and on any given weekend we see those red and blue cop lights pulsating..hear loud voices raised in agitation. .But thus far the cops haven't blasted any of the homies. We have mostly black cops in my area..maybe that's why. But I really don't know.My husband and I visit the project and have held prayer meetings and bible study up in there...and they seem receptive..it's just hard for me as an African-American woman to not think negatively about all the killings..I'm praying constantly for peace..It's hard not to hate when for so long hate has been used against my race.Why the hateration??I mean what did us **racial term removed** do to deserve this??
 
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WarriorForChrist

Guest
#24
I only have one question: I wonder how come they didn't taser or pepper spray the man, drag him out of the car & handcuff him?
Because cops are trained to meet the force with the force given. The guy said he had a gun. So I can only speculate something the officer saw led him to believe the gentleman was pulling the gun. You don't defend yourself with a taser when when a gun is involved
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#25
Because cops are trained to meet the force with the force given. The guy said he had a gun. So I can only speculate something the officer saw led him to believe the gentleman was pulling the gun. You don't defend yourself with a taser when when a gun is involved
People do not understand that you can still squeeze a trigger while being tazed/pepper sprayed.

I say this as someone who carries both pepper spray and a gun.
 
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AuntieAnt

Guest
#26
[video=youtube;Wlc_1nYWUMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlc_1nYWUMM[/video]

Notice the defensive position the officer is in. He is behind the driver's side door in the event the driver does in fact pull out a weapon. This is text-book training.

Now then, we know Castile wasn't even the driver. The officer could have done this with the passenger side. What I'm curious to find out is the officer's motive to go to the passenger side and ask ID from Castile. Maybe the officer had a justifiable reason/explanation... I hope for his sake he does as the current evidence is stacked against him. I also want to know if the officer had any audio and pray it doesn't conveniently "get lost."
Castile was the driver of the car. Facebook streamed the video backwards, for some reason.

I still wonder why the police officer didn't taser Castile rather than shoot him.

Growing up in the city and raising my children in the city, I've witnessed police officers using a taser and/or pepper spray to subdue defiant suspects. We've seen them use batons and even their fists to overcome violent suspects. I've seen the police and vice squad with their weapons drawn in order to apprehend suspects. But I have never actually witnessed someone being gunned down by the police.

Castile didn't look to me like he was being violent. I'm confused as to why they didn't taser or pepper spray him.
 
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Voldemort

Guest
#27
Check out this link . Apparently Mr. Castile matched the description of an armed robbery suspect. That would render the "busted tail light" a pretense and explain both the interest in Castile and the seemingly inordinate level of alertness.

There was also a weapon on Mr. Castile's knee that looks similar to (not ready to say identical) to the one in the CCTV footage.

The local sheriffs office also denied that Mr. Castile ever applied for a permit (not that he should need one, but that's my inner minarchist showing a tad too much leg).
If that entire article is true, the media has some responsibility in driving hatred of cops. I am sick in my stomach that this might be true.

Assuming it is all true and he doesn't even have a permit, I'll take back all the lies that were fed to me. I suppose facts are no longer facts when coming from the media.

Thanks for posting this link.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#28
I have a difficult time saying "Castile got himself killed because triggered an alert reaction." It appears he was complying with the first command from the officer before/after he informed the officer he had a weapon and permit for it. Maybe it was unwise or not the best decision he made, but nevertheless, it does not warrant being killed in front of your daughter and fiance. Castile was in complete compliance with the law from what we know.

That's like saying a woman wearing a mini skirt "got herself raped" by triggering a hormonal male. No no no no... the victim didn't do anything [legal or illegal] to get raped.
C'mon, get off the sidetracking. This is not a rape incident. Try to stay on task.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#29
If that entire article is true, the media has some responsibility in driving hatred of cops. I am sick in my stomach that this might be true.

Assuming it is all true and he doesn't even have a permit, I'll take back all the lies that were fed to me. I suppose facts are no longer facts when coming from the media.

Thanks for posting this link.
Normally this particular source is sensationalist, but it really looks like they did their homework on this one.

I'm appalled as well.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#30
Most news sources appeared to take Miss Reynolds' live stream story at face value rather than vet the relevant details.

I'll admit, I'm guilty of the same. The video looked so awful. I think if you have any ounce of humanity in you, you cannot help but empathize.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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Asheville, NC
#31
Fact: Philando Castile wasn't even driving; he was a passenger.

Fact: The cop asked for ID from Philando Castile.
Question: Is it standard protocol for a cop to ask for ID from passengers? I'm curious why Philando was asked for ID when he wasn't the driver and it was for a broken tail light. We will have to wait and see.

Fact: Philando Castile informed the cop he was armed and has a permit for it.

Fact: Philando Castile reached for his wallet but was ordered to disobey his first command (to show ID).
Question: Did Philando Castile reach for his wallet prior to informing the cop he has a gun and permit? Either way, being shot 4 times for complying with a direct order (to show ID) is unjustified.

Fact: Philando Castile never stopped reaching for his wallet to comply with the officer's second order which according to the video was to "keep his hands open". Having already reached behind himself to grab his wallet to show ID, Philando brings his hand back up (without wallet/gun) and was shot multiple times in doing so.
Question: Why didn't the cop take a defensive position like he was trained to do in the event Philando was dumb enough to inform a cop he has a weapon and intended to use it to fire on the officer?

My opinion from the facts/evidence we have so far: I believe the cop DID NOT murder Philando Castile. This is more in line with manslaughter. The officer exercised poor decision making by being in a high state of alert and unjustifiably killed an innocent man who wasn't even the driver of the automotive vehicle. The officer not only took Castile's life, but he risked the lives of a 4 year old child and woman by pumping Castile with bullets. In doing so, his daughter runs a high probability of suffering psychological trauma. May God help her and his entire family.
Mr. Castile was driving the vehicle. About 13 seconds into the video, you can see the steering wheel in front of him. Apparently the Facebook Live feature reverses the video to create a mirror image, which gives the perception that he was in the passenger seat.
 
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Voldemort

Guest
#32
C'mon, get off the sidetracking. This is not a rape incident. Try to stay on task.
I definitely don't want to sidetrack. I'm just comparing the principle that the victim (if he even is a victim at this point) shouldn't be blamed for other people's wrongdoings.
 
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Voldemort

Guest
#33
Mr. Castile was driving the vehicle. About 13 seconds into the video, you can see the steering wheel in front of him. Apparently the Facebook Live feature reverses the video to create a mirror image, which gives the perception that he was in the passenger seat.
That was my first impression as well (that he was driving), but Dr. Drew, and 3 other online websites say he was the passenger. I have no idea what to think anymore. I sort of feel dumb for running with things told to me on media that they portray as "factual information." There is no credibility.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#34
I only have one question: I wonder how come they didn't taser or pepper spray the man, drag him out of the car & handcuff him?
Maybe you were really advocating this approach. I don't know. But did you watch the video I posted of a police Lt being tazered, and STILL very effectively advancing four or five feet to attack and throttle the tazering officer with a "foam" club?............ Not just once, but TWICE in a row. The tazer was almost useless on him. If I was arreating someone, I would NEVER want to trust in a tazer stopping someone.
And, Pepper Spray is often a joke.
 
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AuntieAnt

Guest
#35
People do not understand that you can still squeeze a trigger while being tazed/pepper sprayed.

I say this as someone who carries both pepper spray and a gun.
I have a dear friend who is a policewoman in Texas. She is not White, nevertheless I am still very concerned for her safety because of all that's happened in Dallas.

I admit I don't know all the facts in Castile's case and I admit that I'd be afraid if I was a cop and a suspect had a visible weapon.

But I can't help being grieved and disturbed by so many condescending and racist comments on social media toward Black citizens. I just pray that we can find a way to help one another heal as a nation and learn to communicate so that fear wouldn't motivate us.

[video=youtube;ghcgAFMVWu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghcgAFMVWu4[/video]
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
#36
This reincarnated thread doesn't taze me either way.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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#37
I have thought about the whole police shootings, brutality, etc thing.
For me, the bottom line issue is really the attitude. The demeanor. The persons heart.
To use two examples, and if you agree with my assessments of these situations or not is not the point. I am going to use them to give an example of the way I look at it.
Also to try to tie it into my understanding of how God may look at our actions and what the bible says about it.

I believe the shooting of Philando Castile in Minnesota was a probable case of the officer just being scared for his life, albeit without enough evidence to kill Philando. I do think his shooting of Philando was terrible judgement, bordering on being criminal (for me the intent is what determines that, something we may never truly know). The officer who shot him may just be a man who was caught up in a situation that he did not have the emotional makeup to respond to properly. It could be. Judging by what Philando's GF said, I believe that the cop shot him without reason. I don't know what he was thinking. If he was thinking that this was a black guy, and he may shot me because blacks are more violent then whites, I have a huge problem with that. If he was thinking something else, that was maybe not rational, something that did not fit the situation, I am more apt to show lenience because then it was more a question of his emotional / psychological state and not a biased toward blacks.
The Eric Garner incident, my mind is made up, and has been for a long time. The cop that choked Mr. Garner to death is an arrogant man who is numb and insensitive to other people, especially people who are black. He has the attitude, like to many cops, that brute force is the answer to his policing methods. That intimidation and abuse of power is how to police. That just about anyone who is doing just about anything illegal, even if it is selling illegal cigarettes is scum and a low life.
Now before I get responses like how do I know that, or it is not true, please, just stop.

I lived in Staten Island for 15 years. I lived in New York City for over 40 years. Not to far from where Eric Garner was slaughtered. I went to public schools in Brooklyn. I grew up and went to school and was friends with quite a few people who became cops. I know how they were raised, I know there families. I know them. So if we are going to be real about this, stop the BS and posturing and be genuine. I can have a conversation with anyone who is sincere, whatever their views. if we don't agree, I am cool with that. It is when they just want to be right, twist the facts, put to much of their ego into it, deny what is happening in real life when you lose me.
Christians especially should be transparent. The bible gives us the example. It does not white wash or try to hide sinful human behavior.
There are to many cops in NYC that are prejudiced. Just a few months ago my daughters ex BF told my daughter why is she going out with a N (he used the N word to describe my daughters current BF). This is a man in his early 30's saying this. Not a person who was born in 1940 and grew up influenced by society to think that way. He is living in NYC his whole life, a very liberal city. What does that say about how things may be in cities down south, or in other areas of the country if NYC still has people thinking like this.
I dated a black woman from Virginia who moved to NYC many years ago. We dated for a year and were engaged for a short time. But it didn't work out, not due to any issues of race though. She spoke to me about race relations and the treatment of blacks by hateful cops. Are you people who are defending cops actions saying she made this up? That she is delusional?
Are you all saying that tens of millions (40,000,000 to maybe 100,000,000) of Americans who have major issues with many, to many, LEO abuse of power are wrong, and that about 1.3 million police officers are always right?
I personally am of the mind that blacks, and minorities in general (and even whites, to a lesser degree) are more irked and angry less of the actual savage and senseless physical beatings and uncalled for killings by police then by the attitude of police. Yes, the needless killings are tragic. They rob families of fathers. And sons. And uncles. They also leave a scar on the cops who have perpetuated such a gratuitous act. It destroys lives in many ways. So I am not down playing that. But I think most people are furious at the disdainful and arrogant and haughty attitude cops sometimes display at even a traffic light stop.
And what makes it frustrating for civilians is that they feel they have little or no options to express their displeasure of the treatment by police. And anyone who wants to say it rarely happens, please, don't insult me, or others here who know better.

Cops are human, They have bad days. Even the best cops I am sure have regretted some things they have said to citizens.
I will say that maybe placing a man or woman, any human being into a situation of being a cop is a losing proposition. They see things everyday God did not make us to deal with on a daily basis. It is a incredibly demanding and tough profession. But that does not excuse the indulgence of good cops who say nothing to their superiors about bad cops. This is yet another major issue the American public has with cops. The legal arm of America pounds the public to say something if you see or hear of something illegal. Be it family or friends
But when does a cop step forward and inform a superior officer about what they know to be unnecessary beatings? Or when they know a particular cop has a major attitude issue with the public, or just can not handle the job? So the public looks at police at being extremely hypocritical.
Do police self enforce their own? Not in a official manner, but among themselves? Could it be even worse, is that what some of you are implying, because they do?
And then their is the issue of cops having to make quotas of arrests or tickets. The public knows this. So how do you think this si going to effect their view of police?

I think considering the decades of police abuse heaped upon blacks and other races, the public has been outlandishly patient. I hope no more cops are killed. I hope people realize that the situation has to be changed using other methods. But this does remind me somewhat of the violent civil right days. When a people feel they have been abandoned , when their voices are not heard, when the powers that be ignore them, and they have little to lose, then what do you think the next step is going to be?

So yeah, like God, I look at the motivations of the heart. And intuitively, I think the public does to. Policing is a profession where sometimes civilians are going to be hurt, even killed, by well meaning cops who you would want your daughter to marry. We all got that. That is not the problem the public has with cops. It is with their seemingly, and soentimes real disregard for human life, for peoples rights, and their arrogant attitudes.

As an aside, I find it alarming, and heartless, that those of you who are staunch supporters of the current system and of the cop civilian killers (a very tiny percentage of cops, BTW, but still far to many) have NOT ONCE, not any of you, to my recall have expressed any remorse about the civilian men who have been killed in the last few days. Or their families. Or the GF and her young daughter who will traumatized for life. I keep saying it, that speaks volumes to me.

Also, i was listening to the radio the other day, and one of the speakers said there are about 1000 killings of civilians every year by police. Initially I thought, is that true? That is a lot of deadly force being used.That sounds like a lot. But then I thought, maybe it is true, and maybe, relatively speaking, it is not a lot.
But we have this trend:In recent years, the use of military equipment and tactics for community policing and for public order policing has become more widespread under the 1033 program.[SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP] Lawmakers have begun to discuss the topic.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11]
[/SUP]And aslo when considering this:In 2010, the FBI estimated that law enforcement agencies made 13,120,947 arrests (excluding traffic violations). Of those persons arrested, 74.5% were male and 69.4 percent of all persons arrested were white, 28.0 percent were black, and the remaining 2.6 percent were of other races.[SUP][18]
[/SUP]So 13,120,000 arrests, and about 1,000 shootings by cops of civilians, maybe there actually is restraint on their part more then they get credit for.

Last, it is not irresponsible for anyone who is an average citizen to state their views regarding police brutality. We are not elected leaders who need to consider whom they serve. What is irresponsible is cops needlessly killing people. And then trying to censor the public by telling them their comments are irresponsible. We serve God. To not speak up against injustices, to not speak up for those who do not enjoy the same benefits of us, to not speak up against the abuse of power, that would be us being irresponsible.
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#38
I have a dear friend who is a policewoman in Texas. She is not White, nevertheless I am still very concerned for her safety because of all that's happened in Dallas.

I admit I don't know all the facts in Castile's case and I admit that I'd be afraid if I was a cop and a suspect had a visible weapon.

But I can't help being grieved and disturbed by so many condescending and racist comments on social media toward Black citizens. I just pray that we can find a way to help one another heal as a nation and learn to communicate so that fear wouldn't motivate us.
I am one who speaks very critically of much of the Black Community. (Rednecks, too LOL) But, it is not without warrant. For the first 8 years of my life, I was mostly raised by a Black woman. (My nanny, Hattie... almost my second mother, and a Saint.) I spent quite a bit of time at Hattie's house, and going all over St. Petersburg with her, shopping and such.

I saw and heard far more than I ever wanted to in those years. I still give thanks that I did not have to be completely raised in that environment. It really IS a totally different world. Anyone trying to tell you the only difference happens to be the color of our skins is denying obvious truths right in front of them. Hattie, herself hated that she had to live on the Southside.

Why do you think that so many good Black people clamor to move away from those neighborhoods just as quickly as they can afford to?
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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#39
These are the facts that no one wants to talk about and our current president ignores. It is why black and Hispanic populations are disproportionately high in the prisons.
No, actually part of the reason is because America has 5% of the worlds population, but 25% of the prison population. T
his is the land that donates more money to causes then most of the rest of the world combined. A land that sends out missionaries to distant countries. A land with a sizable Christian population. We must be vewy, vewy baaad people.
Oh wait, I forgot. Prisons are a business. And it is way easier to convict and lock up the poor then the rich.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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#40
I will say this in a (small) credit to the police. They did not attempt to erase the video she shot.
Or maybe they did, but didn't succeed. ..