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Actually huge numbers of hospitals in the US are non-profit. Contrary to popular belief, people are not turned away from US hospitals if they are incapable of paying. The fees charged (for those who actually pay them) offset the bills of those who do not.
Unfortunately a huge dollar sum in every hospital's annual budget goes to frivolous lawsuits that they pay off just to make them go away. A couple of years ago one of our local hospitals (non-profit) released that they budgeted almost 10 million annually for that purpose. Numerous studies have shown that if medical malpractice suits had an award cap (which none of our politicians seem to be able to get passed) our medical costs in the US would plummet.
The people getting rich in our system are the drug companies and the lawyers.
I suppose that's better than what I thought, but I'm curious, so I want to lay out a scenario and ask what happens. I don't know an awful lot about US healthcare, but:
I am uninsured and I have cancer that can be treated. If left untreated, I will die. I have no money in my bank account, no family to support me, and I go into a hospital.
''Hello Doctor, it seems I have cancer. No insurance. No family. Can you help me?'
What is the continuation of that scenario?
I am uninsured and I have cancer that can be treated. If left untreated, I will die. I have no money in my bank account, no family to support me, and I go into a hospital.
''Hello Doctor, it seems I have cancer. No insurance. No family. Can you help me?'
What is the continuation of that scenario?
According to federal law a hospital CANNOT refuse lifesaving care regardless of a patient's ability to pay. The person will be treated regardless. I had a friend of mine go into the hospital a few years back with Hepatitis, she was unemployed and uninsured. She was admitted and treated for over a week with some rediculously expensive anti-viral drugs. The hospital wrote off the bill and the pharmaceutical company continued to provide her with the meds she needed at no cost after her release. I could give several examples of similar situations from people that I have known.
Most hospitals (that I'm aware of) will work with patients without insurance to either find govt programs that will pick up the bill, or to reduce the bill based on the patient's ability to pay. Hospital Admin's aren't stupid, they'd rather get a small percentage of the bill paid and write off the rest rather than have a patient walk off and pay nothing at all and then file bankruptcy.
What many people don't realize is that most pharmaceutical companies have charitable branches that provide some of the more expensive drugs to persons without insurance at either no cost or at greatly reduced cost.
I highly agree that the system within the US is broken, but I'm not sure that socialized medicine is the answer here. Our Govt has proven all to well that it CANNOT do anything without wasting huge amounts of money and unfortunately the current "fix" still has left millions without coverage of any type (myself included) because of the cost of insurance, and for many that have employer provided insurance the cost of co-pays could potentially break them if they were to develop a serious illness.
I think most US citizens agree that the system needs to be repaired via legislation and regulation, but the problem is developing a consensus as to what that will look like.
Most hospitals (that I'm aware of) will work with patients without insurance to either find govt programs that will pick up the bill, or to reduce the bill based on the patient's ability to pay. Hospital Admin's aren't stupid, they'd rather get a small percentage of the bill paid and write off the rest rather than have a patient walk off and pay nothing at all and then file bankruptcy.
What many people don't realize is that most pharmaceutical companies have charitable branches that provide some of the more expensive drugs to persons without insurance at either no cost or at greatly reduced cost.
I highly agree that the system within the US is broken, but I'm not sure that socialized medicine is the answer here. Our Govt has proven all to well that it CANNOT do anything without wasting huge amounts of money and unfortunately the current "fix" still has left millions without coverage of any type (myself included) because of the cost of insurance, and for many that have employer provided insurance the cost of co-pays could potentially break them if they were to develop a serious illness.
I think most US citizens agree that the system needs to be repaired via legislation and regulation, but the problem is developing a consensus as to what that will look like.
Military personnel and veterans should usually be reimbursed for their services. They should not have special rights other citizens don't have access to. Military personnel shouldn't be allowed to use whatever insurance company they want while the rest of us are stuck using whatever is in our state.
We shouldn't have "first class" citizens and "second class" citizens. All American citizens should have the exact same rights except for criminals who should be excluded depending on their crimes.
As for the 60s and 70s, the anti-war activists were often protesting against the soldiers who were DRAFTED into the war. But they were right in that the war was a worthless blood bath our politicians should have avoided. We had no right to be fighting in Vietnam (literally). Congress did not approve of the Vietnam war.
Did you know that America hasn't been in a declared war since WWII? Every war after that has been supported by unconstitutional laws giving the president power he was supposed to be prohibited from ever obtaining.
We shouldn't have "first class" citizens and "second class" citizens. All American citizens should have the exact same rights except for criminals who should be excluded depending on their crimes.
As for the 60s and 70s, the anti-war activists were often protesting against the soldiers who were DRAFTED into the war. But they were right in that the war was a worthless blood bath our politicians should have avoided. We had no right to be fighting in Vietnam (literally). Congress did not approve of the Vietnam war.
Did you know that America hasn't been in a declared war since WWII? Every war after that has been supported by unconstitutional laws giving the president power he was supposed to be prohibited from ever obtaining.
Clearly, you do not understand this subject............sorry...........you simply don't..........please investigate what Vets are given as benefits vs. what the average citizen of the US is given.......If you think this Country treats it's Vets as "first class" citizens, they you are completely out of touch with reality............
Read about the Program being discussed. Reach an understanding of it and why it is so important to saving the lives of our Veterans...........the President and Congress (both sides) are playing games with the lives of Veterans......does that make us "first class" citizens, or political cannon fodder?
Please try to inform yourself before jumping into the deep end of such conversations as these. Not dissing you, just pleading that you take the time to educate yourself concerning Veterans and how they are treated here in the US.
Read about the Program being discussed. Reach an understanding of it and why it is so important to saving the lives of our Veterans...........the President and Congress (both sides) are playing games with the lives of Veterans......does that make us "first class" citizens, or political cannon fodder?
Please try to inform yourself before jumping into the deep end of such conversations as these. Not dissing you, just pleading that you take the time to educate yourself concerning Veterans and how they are treated here in the US.
All I hear is "veterans deserve more, therefore it doesn't matter what anyone's rights are except for the rights of vets."
My point is that if veterans are allowed to buy healthcare out of state, everyone else should be allowed to do so as well. There's literally zero good reason why veterans should be an exception when everyone should have this right.
You seriously think I can't have an opinion on what vets deserve just because I haven't served in the military?! I pay my taxes - I am one of the many people who PAY for your paycheck AGAINST my will. And you're telling me I shouldn't have a say on what vets do and do not deserve?
I'll respect any veteran for protecting this country, but I'll lose respect for said veteran just as quickly if they act like they're better than anyone else. Being a veteran doesn't make you smarter, yet people want to treat veterans as if they're somehow smarter than the average person. Veterans aren't any more of a moral authority on issues than anyone else, but that's how people act.
Frankly, when it comes to your opinion, I don't care if you served in the military. Your opinion doesn't somehow become more valid.
All you people see is someone who's talking AGAINST vets. That's not the case AT ALL. I'm talking about how EVERYONE deserves the same rights being offered to these vets - that is, the ability to buy healthcare from any state they want. I'm not anti-vet, you're being anti-civilian!
All I hear is "veterans deserve more, therefore it doesn't matter what anyone's rights are except for the rights of vets."
My point is that if veterans are allowed to buy healthcare out of state, everyone else should be allowed to do so as well. There's literally zero good reason why veterans should be an exception when everyone should have this right.
You still do not understand what is being discussed............wish you would actually take the time, make the effort to educate yourself about the program being discussed...........seriously............
As well, you do not understand how BENIFITS work in the REAL WORLD. Everyone working for the Federal Government gets far better insurance than the average citizen. People working for large Industries get far better Insurance that people flipping burgers at a Mom 'n' Pop Joint...........Some don't have Insurance and must rely on whatever is available to them.......
Teachers Unions provide high quality Insurance to their members...........IS THAT FAIR to non-Teachers?
Firemen, Policemen, and on and on and on it goes.......
You simply have no idea of what is being discussed............sorry.......not dissing you, but it is clear you are not aware of the facts of the program being discussed.
(edited to include this statement)
All you people see is someone who's talking AGAINST vets. That's not the case AT ALL. I'm talking about how EVERYONE deserves the same rights being offered to these vets - that is, the ability to buy healthcare from any state they want. I'm not anti-vet, you're being anti-civilian!
You just do not get it.............you have no clue...........PLEASE educate yourself, then get back to me
My point is that if veterans are allowed to buy healthcare out of state, everyone else should be allowed to do so as well. There's literally zero good reason why veterans should be an exception when everyone should have this right.
You still do not understand what is being discussed............wish you would actually take the time, make the effort to educate yourself about the program being discussed...........seriously............
As well, you do not understand how BENIFITS work in the REAL WORLD. Everyone working for the Federal Government gets far better insurance than the average citizen. People working for large Industries get far better Insurance that people flipping burgers at a Mom 'n' Pop Joint...........Some don't have Insurance and must rely on whatever is available to them.......
Teachers Unions provide high quality Insurance to their members...........IS THAT FAIR to non-Teachers?
Firemen, Policemen, and on and on and on it goes.......
You simply have no idea of what is being discussed............sorry.......not dissing you, but it is clear you are not aware of the facts of the program being discussed.
(edited to include this statement)
All you people see is someone who's talking AGAINST vets. That's not the case AT ALL. I'm talking about how EVERYONE deserves the same rights being offered to these vets - that is, the ability to buy healthcare from any state they want. I'm not anti-vet, you're being anti-civilian!
You just do not get it.............you have no clue...........PLEASE educate yourself, then get back to me
V
Let me guess: You vote Democratic, right? Well, when your party had both houses of Congress, they passed Obamacare. Before Obamacare, everyone had the right to buy the health insurance they wanted. There was no need, before Obamacare, to buy across state lines because insurance companies operating within a state offering healthcare coverage numbers at least a dozen, sometimes far more than that, and ala carte overage was virtually guaranteed.
Now Obamacare has stifled free trade in the health insurance industry, and companies are now three and half times more likely to deny coverage for certain treatments because they are still allowed to do so -- in fact, the law encourages it. So as I said, stop whining. Your elected officials did this to you, not the vets. All we did was fight, get wounded, in some cases die -- so you would have the right to whine, and I would have the right (as one of them, more so) to tell you to shut up. So I did. Don't like it? Sorry.
Not smarter. We earned the right to that healthcare. Some of us have three or more Purple Hearts and didn't take the military easy way out and withdraw from combat assignments after we got the third one. That isn't the way we were made, either at home before we were in the military, and certainly not afterwards. You're whining about veterans getting things you don't.
If you don't like that, talk to your elected officials about changing it. Don't be surprised if they turn away from you at a campaign rally, hang up the phone in mid-conversation, or delete your email, though. Some of them who are veterans might even say to your face, over the phone, or via return email to STOP WHINING!
Now Obamacare has stifled free trade in the health insurance industry, and companies are now three and half times more likely to deny coverage for certain treatments because they are still allowed to do so -- in fact, the law encourages it. So as I said, stop whining. Your elected officials did this to you, not the vets. All we did was fight, get wounded, in some cases die -- so you would have the right to whine, and I would have the right (as one of them, more so) to tell you to shut up. So I did. Don't like it? Sorry.
Not smarter. We earned the right to that healthcare. Some of us have three or more Purple Hearts and didn't take the military easy way out and withdraw from combat assignments after we got the third one. That isn't the way we were made, either at home before we were in the military, and certainly not afterwards. You're whining about veterans getting things you don't.
If you don't like that, talk to your elected officials about changing it. Don't be surprised if they turn away from you at a campaign rally, hang up the phone in mid-conversation, or delete your email, though. Some of them who are veterans might even say to your face, over the phone, or via return email to STOP WHINING!
Libertarian. The only way you could be less socialist than me is if you're an anarcho-capitalist.
I agree, Obamacare sucks. That's not to say healthcare before Obamacare was perfect either though.
We should be able to buy insurance from whichever state we want. We shouldn't be limited to buying insurance within our own state - that's asinine corporatism.
Everyone should have a right to that healthcare (not an entitlement to it - a RIGHT). If anyone wants to buy insurance from across state lines, they should be allowed to. This shouldn't be something exclusive to veterans.
I'm not saying veterans shouldn't get healthcare. I believe the government should reimburse vets so they can buy whichever healthcare they want. But I believe EVERYONE should be allowed to buy whatever healthcare they want. The government shouldn't say, "Only veterans are allowed to buy healthcare outside their state."
I love it when people condemn others for "whining". It's like saying, "Oh, you have an opinion? I'll call it whining so I can disregard it without providing an actual argument against it." Newsflash, I could easily sink to your level and tell you to stop whining too. But that would be stupid and juvenile.
I believe veterans deserve good healthcare. But they don't deserve more rights. If veterans obtain more rights than civilians, then that means America isn't s free as it should be. We want the absolute maximum amount of freedom in this country as possible, which means any rights a soldier has should also be available to civilians. KEEP IN MIND, rights are things we're ALLOWED TO ACCESS. Do not confuse rights and entitlements. Veterans deserve to be reimbursed for their health after serving the country whereas civilians don't necessarily deserve that reimbursement. But that's because the military is a JOB and your employer should take care of you.
I agree, Obamacare sucks. That's not to say healthcare before Obamacare was perfect either though.
We should be able to buy insurance from whichever state we want. We shouldn't be limited to buying insurance within our own state - that's asinine corporatism.
Everyone should have a right to that healthcare (not an entitlement to it - a RIGHT). If anyone wants to buy insurance from across state lines, they should be allowed to. This shouldn't be something exclusive to veterans.
I'm not saying veterans shouldn't get healthcare. I believe the government should reimburse vets so they can buy whichever healthcare they want. But I believe EVERYONE should be allowed to buy whatever healthcare they want. The government shouldn't say, "Only veterans are allowed to buy healthcare outside their state."
I love it when people condemn others for "whining". It's like saying, "Oh, you have an opinion? I'll call it whining so I can disregard it without providing an actual argument against it." Newsflash, I could easily sink to your level and tell you to stop whining too. But that would be stupid and juvenile.
I believe veterans deserve good healthcare. But they don't deserve more rights. If veterans obtain more rights than civilians, then that means America isn't s free as it should be. We want the absolute maximum amount of freedom in this country as possible, which means any rights a soldier has should also be available to civilians. KEEP IN MIND, rights are things we're ALLOWED TO ACCESS. Do not confuse rights and entitlements. Veterans deserve to be reimbursed for their health after serving the country whereas civilians don't necessarily deserve that reimbursement. But that's because the military is a JOB and your employer should take care of you.
Telling me how I don't get it doesn't prove how I'm wrong, nor does it educate me to what you claim the issue really is.
I read that Obama wants to prevent vets from obtaining insurance from across state lines. This is something we should all be allowed to do, not just vets. Tell me how I'm wrong instead of just telling me I'm wrong.
If I'm misunderstanding something, please correct me. But if you're not going to correct me, stop wasting time telling me how I'm wrong.
I read that Obama wants to prevent vets from obtaining insurance from across state lines. This is something we should all be allowed to do, not just vets. Tell me how I'm wrong instead of just telling me I'm wrong.
If I'm misunderstanding something, please correct me. But if you're not going to correct me, stop wasting time telling me how I'm wrong.
K
I agree with you here as health care did suck even before Obamacare was put in place, as premiums have always been to high and at almost every job I worked at cost me at least half a pay check or more a month just for the premium. My dad is retired and on social security, so he is on a very fixed budget. And even with getting very little money to live on they still take a little over $100 dollars a month out of his check for Medicare, and that doesn't even cover prescription costs as he would have to get a secondary insurance for that. Meaning more money out of his pocket.
The other thing I guess people forget is that when Obama first took office his medical plan was for 100% government funded health care that is just like the 3 of the top countries in insurance has. However big business and private doctors used their power and money to fight it, and lie to the public telling them they would not be able to pick their own doctors and so on. Since then Obama made adjustments to it until it got passed, so all those who do not like Obamacare don't blame it just on him as the congress passed it to.......
If you want me to educate you on the various things you do not understand............there is a hefty fee. Education can be expensive...........Since you have no desire to put forth the slightest effort to educate yourself, I can only surmise that you are surely a shining example of the "Entitlement Generation." Those who believe they are entitled to live off of the hard work of others without doing a single thing to earn their keep. Luck for you that the current Administration is quite willing to fulfill your every desire...........
If you have no desire to make the effort to educate yourself, why should anyone else make the effort to educate you? The time being wasted is the time spent waiting for you to show a modicum of interest in actually making yourself informed about a subject prior to throwing out incorrect statements.................and it is quite clear you did not understand my COMMENT #33......where I did show you how you were wrong in your false statement that Vets are treated far better than other citizens.............
BTW: Are you a master herbalist? Just wondering...............If you are, it would explain a lot.
If you have no desire to make the effort to educate yourself, why should anyone else make the effort to educate you? The time being wasted is the time spent waiting for you to show a modicum of interest in actually making yourself informed about a subject prior to throwing out incorrect statements.................and it is quite clear you did not understand my COMMENT #33......where I did show you how you were wrong in your false statement that Vets are treated far better than other citizens.............
BTW: Are you a master herbalist? Just wondering...............If you are, it would explain a lot.
You make a claim, and instead of backing it up or informing the person you're accusing of being wrong - you tell them they should pay you for that information. You then make the accusation that they must be one of the people who feel they are entitled to free education.
Your logic is as fallows:
1. I don't offer to pay you for information during a DEBATE on an OPEN FORUM. (We are NOT in a college setting)
2. Because I don't offer to pay you for information in a non-college setting, I must therefore feel entitled to free college education.
Please, don't resort to irrational, fallacious, straw man arguments.
Oh, and just in case you missed it:
If you claim someone is wrong and they ask, "How am I wrong?" you have to be denser than osmium to think the mature response is, "go figure it out yourself." If you tell me to figure it out myself, I can only assume you don't have it figured out yourself so you tell me to do my homework so you don't have to actually support your own claims!
1. No, you didn't. You just told me I was wrong over and over. You didn't show me anything.
2. I never claimed veterans were treated better than civilians. I said they don't deserve special rights that are not available to citizens.
Here's how I see it:
1. Nobody has access to healthcare outside their state.
2. Only veterans have access to healthcare outside their state. Civilians do not.
3. EVERYONE has access to healthcare outside their state.
I'm arguing for number 3 - the most capitalist of the three options. You're acting like I'm supporting option 1 - I don't. Which one of those three options do you support?
Keep in mind, having access to healthcare means that it's available for purchase. It DOES NOT mean you automatically receive that care for free (or through tax dollars). If you thought I was talking about civilians OBTAINING outside healthcare through government, then that would explain why this debate is happening and it would clearly be a huge misunderstanding.
Your logic is as fallows:
1. I don't offer to pay you for information during a DEBATE on an OPEN FORUM. (We are NOT in a college setting)
2. Because I don't offer to pay you for information in a non-college setting, I must therefore feel entitled to free college education.
Please, don't resort to irrational, fallacious, straw man arguments.
Oh, and just in case you missed it:
If you claim someone is wrong and they ask, "How am I wrong?" you have to be denser than osmium to think the mature response is, "go figure it out yourself." If you tell me to figure it out myself, I can only assume you don't have it figured out yourself so you tell me to do my homework so you don't have to actually support your own claims!
1. No, you didn't. You just told me I was wrong over and over. You didn't show me anything.
2. I never claimed veterans were treated better than civilians. I said they don't deserve special rights that are not available to citizens.
Here's how I see it:
1. Nobody has access to healthcare outside their state.
2. Only veterans have access to healthcare outside their state. Civilians do not.
3. EVERYONE has access to healthcare outside their state.
I'm arguing for number 3 - the most capitalist of the three options. You're acting like I'm supporting option 1 - I don't. Which one of those three options do you support?
Keep in mind, having access to healthcare means that it's available for purchase. It DOES NOT mean you automatically receive that care for free (or through tax dollars). If you thought I was talking about civilians OBTAINING outside healthcare through government, then that would explain why this debate is happening and it would clearly be a huge misunderstanding.
QUOTE:
You make a claim, and instead of backing it up or informing the person you're accusing of being wrong - you tell them they should pay you for that information. You then make the accusation that they must be one of the people who feel they are entitled to free education.
Your logic is as fallows:
1. I don't offer to pay you for information during a DEBATE on an OPEN FORUM. (We are NOT in a college setting)
2. Because I don't offer to pay you for information in a non-college setting, I must therefore feel entitled to free college education.
Please, don't resort to irrational, fallacious, straw man arguments.
Oh, and just in case you missed it:
END QUOTE........
1) It was you who made "claims" about Vets and their medical benefits........and you did not back up any of your misstatements..........
2) It was you who said "you couldn't be bothered to do the research yourself......didn't mean that much to you......you want others to do the work while you reap the rewards..........so, yes, that makes you appear to believe you are "entitled."
3) The fact that you could not distinguish a "tongue in cheek" remark for what it was only enhances your lack of knowledge.
4) Oh, goodness...............you took the words right out of my mouth...........make the effort to educate yourself about a subject/program before you decide to dive in and start posting nonsensical remarks/comments.
You make a claim, and instead of backing it up or informing the person you're accusing of being wrong - you tell them they should pay you for that information. You then make the accusation that they must be one of the people who feel they are entitled to free education.
Your logic is as fallows:
1. I don't offer to pay you for information during a DEBATE on an OPEN FORUM. (We are NOT in a college setting)
2. Because I don't offer to pay you for information in a non-college setting, I must therefore feel entitled to free college education.
Please, don't resort to irrational, fallacious, straw man arguments.
Oh, and just in case you missed it:
END QUOTE........
1) It was you who made "claims" about Vets and their medical benefits........and you did not back up any of your misstatements..........
2) It was you who said "you couldn't be bothered to do the research yourself......didn't mean that much to you......you want others to do the work while you reap the rewards..........so, yes, that makes you appear to believe you are "entitled."
3) The fact that you could not distinguish a "tongue in cheek" remark for what it was only enhances your lack of knowledge.
4) Oh, goodness...............you took the words right out of my mouth...........make the effort to educate yourself about a subject/program before you decide to dive in and start posting nonsensical remarks/comments.