Obamacare DEAD...

[SonInMe]

Just one more thing...

Everything the republicans said Obamacare would be....is what it was.

Everything the democrats said Obamacare would be....was a lie.

Next time you are in a voting booth ( and anyone who voted for Obama twice should never be allowed in a voting booth every again ) remember that.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Nautilus isn't paying attention. Most liberals don't. They just keep the spending pedal to the medal until the car crashes while screaming out the window at fiscal conservatives (who are responsible and looking at them as if they are insane) that everyone who doesn't do likewise is "unloving."

Just the annual interest on the national debt is soon to transcend all annual U.S. military spending. That's JUST the interest payments that have to be paid out each year to creditors. Liberals never even noticed. They're still going on about military spending.

The nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (CRS) produced an overview of cumulative means-tested federal welfare spending in the United States and the results are simply staggering. CRS identified 83 overlapping federal welfare programs that together represent the single largest budget item in the federal budget... more than the nation spends on Social Security, Medicare, or national defense. The total amount spent on these 80-plus federal welfare programs amounted to roughly $1.03 trillion in 2011 and is rapidly rising. Importantly, these figures solely refer to means-tested welfare benefits. They exclude entitlement programs to which people contribute (e.g., Social Security and Medicare).

http://www.budget.senate.gov/republ...?File_id=0f87b42d-f182-4b3d-8ae2-fa8ac8a8edad

Look at the rapid increase:

Now understand that many factors, such as offering amnesty to illegal aliens, are not included in this CBO projection which would drive the numbers up higher faster.

Federal Welfare Spending to Skyrocket 80 Percent in Next Decade | The Weekly Standard

Which is more unloving, being irresponsible to a fault and crashing your nation's economic system putting two hundred million people in a Great Depression and possible democide or failing to accomplish that by being responsible and managing a well run economy that benefits both its citizens but also has an intrinsic positive affect on the rest of the world?

A liberal would say you're supposed to borrow, tax, and spend until you crash your nation's economy and anyone that disagrees is "unloving." A sane person would say you're supposed to be responsible and manage your nation's economy properly for the benefit of it's citizens and that IS loving.

http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA694.pdf

But then "unloving" is just a code word for give me more of someone else's money at it's core: The Number One Reason Americans Vote For The Democratic Party ~ Help Fix America First

... even when liberal Republicans do it:
Red Flavor-Aid - The Problem with Republican Economics ~ Help Fix America First

Ironically, the massive welfare spending has just resulted in everyone becoming poorer over time:
http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA694.pdf

... and it's going to begin to scale down even as taxes are materially raised within the next decade because it's unsustainable.

Then what? Riots? They won't change anything. What then?

Although I agree that we need to quit sticking our nose into some of these conflicts, defense spending is a drop in the bucket next to entitlements which make up more than half the annual budget and is projected to engulf a considerably greater percentage in the next decade.

 

[Elizabeth619]

He was fine with taking health care from 5 million and making those ones dependent on government.
Another 25 million ObamaCare victims | New York Post

And mine and Wesleys was cancelled thanks to obamacare.

We still have no insurance.

 

[Sirk]

And mine and Wesleys was cancelled thanks to obamacare.

We still have no insurance.

My premium increased by more than $400 a month....our policy renewed on July 1 and it has been screwed up royally ever since.

 

[SonInMe]

I have heard stories about what others are paying, their deductables and coverage......mine went up slightly, a few dollars a month, as we changed coverage at work, but its as good as the last insurance, maybe a little better.

Kept my doc but my labs will change.

Deductibles about the same.

Thank God, after hearing all the horror stories my insurance is quite good.

 

[Nautilus]

I was actually able to afford insurance once obamacare came into effect. Before it was basically a choice of paying rent or having healthcare. Now I actually have affordable healthcare which was denied prior to this due to some lifestyle choices I had.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Speaking just for myself Nautilus, I think the government can be involved in capping costs and making healthcare available to the poor (working poor and otherwise) but not at the federal level.

It should be left to the states and counties to determine how they want to handle healthcare as it was before Obamacare. Where I live, poor people had access to 100% paid for medical care through the county via an indigenous healthcare plan the county provided to the poor. The state did not have one but most counties did have healthcare for the poor in this state of 38 million people.

No 200 billion a year and climbing new deficit spending expense on the federal ledger existed before Obamacare. Now it does. And Obamacare has created indirect costs as well. Read: ObamaCare Is Costing A Lot More Than You Think - Forbes

It existed before in most places without the new two hundred billion expense in a deficit ridden broken budget and a mountain of national debt.

It IS unsustainable so it's going to change because it has to change Nautilus. Enjoy the few years before the cutting and taxing begins in earnest. This is as good as it gets.

I was actually able to afford insurance once obamacare came into effect. Before it was basically a choice of paying rent or having healthcare. Now I actually have affordable healthcare which was denied prior to this due to some lifestyle choices I had.

 

[SonInMe]

Another myth, we needed national health care.

Hook

Line


and sinker

 

[biscuit]

The real problem is that we have an oligopoly with the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies with health regulators (AMA) who are exclusively running the show to their advantage without shame. They are basically saying "if you can't pay our prices and play our game," go to the federal government. This oligopoly can easily be broken if fairer competition is allowed into the market to break their "neck-choking" hold on the American public. Sadly, Congress won't allow it because their hands are even dirtier. I would like to see a few international entities in the insurance, pharmaceutical companies and health care organizations enter the market to challenge the present system. This is the only way to bring healthcare to an acceptable status. Stiff competition will drive down premiums & costs in the long run. At the present moment, there is really no serious competition and it is just a matter of time before healthcare premiums & costs will go through the roof, especially with Obamacare. It is likely to fail soon.

 

[biscuit]

We wouldn't be in such a healthcare crisis if Americans would just take care of their health. The number #1 culprit is obesity. If we had the obesity rate of the 60's, there would probably be no need for Obamacare.. So many health problems are directly relate to obesity and the neglect toward better dietary habits.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

And just to be clear:

The Massive Tax Increase Hidden Inside Obamacare | RealClearMarkets

Another myth, we needed national health care.

Hook

Line


and sinker

 

[biscuit]

And just to be clear:

The Massive Tax Increase Hidden Inside Obamacare | RealClearMarkets

Yep! it is going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[Oncefallen]

Biscuit, I have to disagree with your assessment of the primary cost problem within health insurance. In my lifetime the largest single contribution to the increase in the cost of healthcare is litigation costs incurred by healthcare providers and pharmaceutical companies which in turn get passed on to patients and insurance companies in the form of higher bills. Until this country addresses tort reform with caps on punitive damages our healthcare costs will continue to skyrocket.

Malpractice insurance premiums for doctors and liability insurance premiums for hospitals and pharmaceutical companies in the past fifty years have gone through the ceiling because of the outrageous sums of money awarded in malpractice and product liability lawsuits and in the long run the only people getting rich from this is the lawyers. Interestingly enough the lobby in Washington that spreads the most money around greasing palms to keep tort reform off the agenda is the trial lawyers.

Do you want to know why that ER doctor or surgeon charges so much for their time? $100,000 per year malpractice insurance premium. That info is coming from my mother who spent 20 years working as an ER nurse.

Our local hospital (city owned, non-profit) budgets $5,000,000 annually for nuisance suits. That drives up the cost.

 

[Nautilus]

Speaking just for myself Nautilus, I think the government can be involved in capping costs and making healthcare available to the poor (working poor and otherwise) but not at the federal level.

It should be left to the states and counties to determine how they want to handle healthcare as it was before Obamacare. Where I live, poor people had access to 100% paid for medical care through the county via an indigenous healthcare plan the county provided to the poor. The state did not have one but most counties did have healthcare for the poor in this state of 38 million people.

No 200 billion a year and climbing new deficit spending expense on the federal ledger existed before Obamacare. Now it does. And Obamacare has created indirect costs as well. Read: ObamaCare Is Costing A Lot More Than You Think - Forbes

It existed before in most places without the new two hundred billion expense in a deficit ridden broken budget and a mountain of national debt.

It IS unsustainable so it's going to change because it has to change Nautilus. Enjoy the few years before the cutting and taxing begins in earnest. This is as good as it gets.

While I actually support leaving things to the state most times, some states just dont give a flip. And then youre stuck with states like NC who couldnt gives a donkey butt, if people dont have healthcare, which ends up with people either being terribly unhealthy or just going to the ER anyways and never paying the bills off because they cant afford it.

 

[biscuit]

Biscuit, I have to disagree with your assessment of the primary cost problem within health insurance. In my lifetime the largest single contribution to the increase in the cost of healthcare is litigation costs incurred by healthcare providers and pharmaceutical companies which in turn get passed on to patients and insurance companies in the form of higher bills. Until this country addresses tort reform with caps on punitive damages our healthcare costs will continue to skyrocket.

Malpractice insurance premiums for doctors and liability insurance premiums for hospitals and pharmaceutical companies in the past fifty years have gone through the ceiling because of the outrageous sums of money awarded in malpractice and product liability lawsuits and in the long run the only people getting rich from this is the lawyers. Interestingly enough the lobby in Washington that spreads the most money around greasing palms to keep tort reform off the agenda is the trial lawyers.

Do you want to know why that ER doctor or surgeon charges so much for their time? $100,000 per year malpractice insurance premium. That info is coming from my mother who spent 20 years working as an ER nurse.

Our local hospital (city owned, non-profit) budgets $5,000,000 annually for nuisance suits. That drives up the cost.

Agree with everything you stated. Those destructive three that I mentioned know that they will have their way in court. Unless Congress intervene on behalf of the American people, and that will not happen because they own Congress. IMHO, only international competition with tons of money is really the only answer right now ... and Congress will not allow anyone or entities to mess with its money. And for these reasons, we are screwed!!! The situation will get a lot worse before it gets better. To give a hypothetical example why these pharmaceutical & healthcare providers will make 50 million dollars and payout 10-15 millions in a judgment. It is still a very profitable business. Reforms are needed but the terrible four pharmaceutical , insurance companies, healthcare providers & Congress) like it the way it is. In essence, we are saying the same thing except you broke it down beautifully.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I have to agree with biscuit that you certainly stated your position in post #33 eloquently Oncefallen. You have graduated to a new level, as of late, in your understanding and ability to communicate that understanding.

I realize that stating this fact makes me look like an ineloquent brown nosing succulent, lolol, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit has ruled that the IRS illegally expanded a tax under Obamacare (Act) that hit an estimated 4.5 million people that shouldn't have been subject to the tax.

D.C. Circuit Says IRS Illegally Created Obamacare Tax; Fourth Circuit Sees No Evil | Center for Agricultural Law and Taxation

 

[AntonHolden]

so just to stifle obama repbulicans are willing to screw 4.7 million out of healthcare?

That's basically what it is. Everything, and absolutely everything the Repubs have done against Obama since the 2012 elections has been to discredit the president, and to no avail.

They're still butt-hurt because Mitt Romney lost. The Republicans need to get over it.

What's worse, because they've been so preoccupied with trying to bury Obama, the GOP has gummed up Congress with obstruction and lawsuits and legislative blocks. It's so stupid.

(Waiting for someone to tell me that I don't know Jesus because I think today's Republicans are idiots.)

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It always amazes me how someone, like yourself, could live in such sweeping denial of the truth. Your comments do show that you have a butt-hurtedness about you as you say.

First, it's not hard to discredit that which is discreditable and that is a word which pretty well sums up Obama's entire presidency.

So, of course, obstructing evil is good. You're ignorance of this is itself stupid.

Finally, Romney was no peach and most Republicans I spoke with understood that going into the election. It was a matter of the voting for the lesser of two evils. We, unfortunately, got the worst of the two.

And no, I'm not doubting your salvation because you are an ignorant person in denial. That's a personal problem which contributes to society's problems but it doesn't invalidate what Christ did FOR you.

And I'm an independent voter. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. It's just that you're so far off the mark that even independent voters can see that plainly.

That's basically what it is. Everything, and absolutely everything the Repubs have done against Obama since the 2012 elections has been to discredit the president, and to no avail.

They're still butt-hurt because Mitt Romney lost. The Republicans need to get over it.

What's worse, because they've been so preoccupied with trying to bury Obama, the GOP has gummed up Congress with obstruction and lawsuits and legislative blocks. It's so stupid.

(Waiting for someone to tell me that I don't know Jesus because I think today's Republicans are idiots.)

 

[kennethcadwell]

It always amazes me how someone, like yourself, could live in such sweeping denial of the truth. Your comments do show that you have a butt-hurtedness about you as you say.

First, it's not hard to discredit that which is discreditable and that is a word which pretty well sums up Obama's entire presidency.

So, of course, obstructing evil is good. You're ignorance of this is itself stupid.

Finally, Romney was no peach and most Republicans I spoke with understood that going into the election. It was a matter of the voting for the lesser of two evils. We, unfortunately, got the worst of the two.

And no, I'm not doubting your salvation because you are an ignorant person in denial. That's a personal problem which contributes to society's problems but it doesn't invalidate what Christ did FOR you.

And I'm an independent voter. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. It's just that you're so far off the mark that even independent voters can see that plainly.

It is also ignorance to say we got the worse of the two evils by electing Obama instead of Romney.

One can not make that assumption because we do not know exactly what Romney would have done if elected president. The only thing we can say is what he said during the running.
And lets see some of the things he said. Said he did not care about the less fortunate/struggling Americans who believe the government is there to help them, was going to raise taxes on middle to lower class families making life harder on them while giving the rich tax breaks, and wanting to do away with programs that helped people who needed it.

Who knows how much further he would have gone towards hurting the middle to lower classes if elected.

People went with Obama again because Romney kept shooting himself in the foot with all the stuff he got saying, and then trying to back track out of them.

Obama has been one of the worse presidents we have had, and I rank him right along with both Bushes because they were terrible to. We can not however say Romney would have been better because we do not know when he never held the office.